Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 03:01:49 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #180 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Forms interpretation: to self defense applications (Matt Munson) 2. RE: Forms interpretation (Matt Munson) 3. RE: Blind Trianing (Kevin Janisse) 4. NKMAA Korea Trip (Kevin Janisse) 5. RE: Forms interpretation (Jye nigma) 6. RE: Forms interpretation (Thomas Gordon) 7. RE: Forms interpretation (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:51:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Munson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Forms interpretation: to self defense applications To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As I learned them, the movements were explained, in a practical use sense, to some degree but not as much as they should have been. One of the things I have been trying to do as I've gotten back into TKD and ma's after a 10 year absence is break the patterns down and see how any and every movement in the patterns can apply in realistic scenarios. Matt Jye nigma wrote: So let me ask, in your respective arts, have the forms movements been explained? When I learned a butterfly swords form, I learned the entire form first then the teacher took each segment from the form and taught the self defense apps straight from the form in a 2 man set. Have your forms been broken down and explained like that? In both of my TKD schools, the forms movements were never broken down like that. Jye Matt Munson wrote: Yes. I make it a habit to continually ask students how a given technique from the patterns could apply in self-defense. In my humble opinion, I think this is essential in traditional martial arts training. Otherwise, patterns are just a series of static movements strung together. When we can actually visualize how the technique can be used realistically, we become that much more effective in the patterns. Matt Jye nigma wrote: Does anyone take their forms apart and train self defense applications from the form? Hope I asked that correctly. Jye --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:03:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Munson Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Forms interpretation To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Clark, Since you used down block as an example, let's continue with that. No, down block performed EXACTLY as it is in a pattern with perfect stance and textbook form is not going to be used in that manner in a real self-defense encounter. But, a down block modified as necessary would be used. My other hand would not be at my waist but in a protective manner somewhere near my head depending on what side of my body my assailant is on. And, I won't be in a traditional front stance but a modified fighting stance. Furthermore, I would be moving, most likely in whatever direction is most appropriate of a female triangle. However, having said all that, the down block would be nevertheless effective and hopefully destructive since the down block had been practiced in a traditional manner thousands of times. Respectfully, Matt Rick Clark wrote: Just out of curiosity do you think that a down block is really used against someone who is putting a front (side) kick at your midsection? In the forms you have one hand down "blocking" and the other at your waist. Can you ever think of a time in sparing when you block a kick like this? Do you think you would do this for real if some one was going to attack you on the street? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Kevin Janisse" To: Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:23:43 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Blind Trianing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been training Master Robert Ott for a couple years and who was recently in TKD times. I have been extremely impressed with his ability to comprehend the forms and techniques. What has helped him is the experience he obtained before he lost his sight. Outside of some issues with balance (mostly caused by the shooting) there are very few things he can not do without some type of aid. In fact I was recently teaching him a sword form and nearly had a close shave as I walked in on him to correct his position...lol. He was doing so well I nearly forgot he was blind! Many drills we teach include a blindfold or the closing of ones eyes both in forms and techniques. This helps to facilitate the flow of motion by feel instead of sight. Sincerely, Kevin Janisse -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 4/22/2006 --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Kevin Janisse" To: Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:37:04 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] NKMAA Korea Trip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The NKMAA Korea trip was a huge success. The championship was a blast, the master's demonstration was excellent, and the training was great. I do not know the total number but I believe the team won around a dozen medals. Grandmaster In Sun Seo and his family were fantastic hosts and made everyone feel welcome. Even with the large group that attended most everything went smooth. Master Gommels and Jeremy, Thank you for the compliments. It turned out so well because the students were so easy to teach and we were able to build upon the talent already developed. Thank you Master Gommels for making us feel comfortable and welcome, I wish you and your school the best and look forward to a return visit. Sincerely, Kevin Janisse -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 4/22/2006 --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:48:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Forms interpretation To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net something I found interesting on a shotokan website, was how they used a "low block" with the other hand by the waist as a strike to the opponent's kidney area while pulling the opponent's arm. Jye Matt Munson wrote: Mr. Clark, Since you used down block as an example, let's continue with that. No, down block performed EXACTLY as it is in a pattern with perfect stance and textbook form is not going to be used in that manner in a real self-defense encounter. But, a down block modified as necessary would be used. My other hand would not be at my waist but in a protective manner somewhere near my head depending on what side of my body my assailant is on. And, I won't be in a traditional front stance but a modified fighting stance. Furthermore, I would be moving, most likely in whatever direction is most appropriate of a female triangle. However, having said all that, the down block would be nevertheless effective and hopefully destructive since the down block had been practiced in a traditional manner thousands of times. Respectfully, Matt Rick Clark wrote: Just out of curiosity do you think that a down block is really used against someone who is putting a front (side) kick at your midsection? In the forms you have one hand down "blocking" and the other at your waist. Can you ever think of a time in sparing when you block a kick like this? Do you think you would do this for real if some one was going to attack you on the street? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Forms interpretation Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:53:23 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Most movements of the ITF forms are interpreted in the 15 set encyclopedia. Exercises in variations is always interesting and can be entertaining but I'd start with the interpretation from General Choi first. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:54:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Forms interpretation To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net let us discuss a 'low-block' from 3 different ranges. 1st scenario- long range- the opponent kicks at you and you use the low block to block the kick. 2nd scenario- mid-range- ???? 3rd scenario- grappling range- person in back of your grabs your shoulder, you turn and deliver the 'low block' which now becomes a groin shot...lol. Jye Matt Munson wrote: Mr. Clark, Since you used down block as an example, let's continue with that. No, down block performed EXACTLY as it is in a pattern with perfect stance and textbook form is not going to be used in that manner in a real self-defense encounter. But, a down block modified as necessary would be used. My other hand would not be at my waist but in a protective manner somewhere near my head depending on what side of my body my assailant is on. And, I won't be in a traditional front stance but a modified fighting stance. Furthermore, I would be moving, most likely in whatever direction is most appropriate of a female triangle. However, having said all that, the down block would be nevertheless effective and hopefully destructive since the down block had been practiced in a traditional manner thousands of times. Respectfully, Matt Rick Clark wrote: Just out of curiosity do you think that a down block is really used against someone who is putting a front (side) kick at your midsection? In the forms you have one hand down "blocking" and the other at your waist. Can you ever think of a time in sparing when you block a kick like this? Do you think you would do this for real if some one was going to attack you on the street? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest