Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:24:21 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #185 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: young black belts (Klaas Barends) 2. Re: van advertising (Klaas Barends) 3. Re: Rank and be ranked out (sidtkd@aol.com) 4. Young Blackbelts (Amcreva Drogovah) 5. Re: Young Blackbelts (Jason E. Thomas) 6. Black Belts (rwood) 7. RE: Young Blackbelts (Rick Clark) 8. Age / Rank (Art V V) 9. Rank that smelled rank (Gordon) 10. forms interpretation (instructor@realtaekwondo.com) 11. Real Teaching! (Brooke Thomas) 12. Re: Rank that smelled rank (steven riggs) 13. RE: Real Teaching! (michael tomlinson) 14. Re: Rank that smelled rank (Ray) 15. Bobsled fed ties the USTU (The_Dojang) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Klaas Barends Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:22:21 +0200 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: young black belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > As for how it is in Korea, I personally see no need to lower our own > standards just because 'that is the way it is today in Korea'. I think we can all say 'amen' to that -- kind regards, Klaas Barends www.hapkidoforum.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Klaas Barends Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:25:45 +0200 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: van advertising Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > i think some of these logos can be purchased through _www.mooto.com_ > (http://www.mooto.com) > > i recognise some of the characters theyre using. At http://www.hapkifamily.com/ they sell a lot of that kind of stuff as well. You are probably better of going to your local advertising company and ask them to do it for you. Just bring some of the pictures, and they can come up with something. If you need Korean and/or Chinese writing which can be used for prints (vector files) just drop me an email. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends www.hapkidoforum.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:06:45 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Rank and be ranked out Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Several months ago I went on a major rant about kukkiwon fraud. It's a funny thing as post script, but 4 of the major ripo-off artists that themselves skipped rank in Korea were the nice people that stole kukkiwon fees that prevented their students from advancing. Is rank imortnat. Is it important to a point as some say??? You bet your behind its important!!!! Stop playing games guys. Sid --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Amcreva Drogovah" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:14:10 -0300 Subject: [The_Dojang] Young Blackbelts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is the problem. As if seems most of the business in Taekwondo is the younger population in the community. At least here it is. We have two children's classes and one adult class, not to mention an everyday after-school program. So, is it a challange to keep kids motovated and in your program without giving them frequent tests? In this day, we live in a "I want it, and I want it now." right now my goal is to get my blackbelt, and I will do almost anything to get to is faster. If that means training everyday, practicing at home and gounf to out-of-state tournaments then so be it. I think the fact is. A 20 year old blackbelt is usally going to be more skilled at taekwondo then a seven year old. To think it will take me, three to seven years to get my blackbelt depending on my dedication, and then a seven year old comes along and has a blackbelt in two years erks me. To wear a blackbelt is an honor. An honor, I personally think seven year olds are not ready for.  Do you remember how hard you worked for that belt you wear?  If it took you one year to get there would you still have that some pride in it? Would you be able to look at yourself in uniform and say. "I deserve this belt, I worked hard for it." If you give the kid a blackbelt in a year, is he still going to be in your program three years down the road? I don't think so. Will that seven year old be the same caliber of athlete as a 20 year old? Even a 14 year old? In most cases, No. In Korea, The training is harder, faster and much more intense then in the U.S. or Canada. At least most of the time. But, I don't think we should compare ourselves to Korea, we should figure out a way, ourselves on what defines a blackbelt. So, I want what you all think. What defines a blackbelt? ((This is just my personal opinion)) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:14:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason E. Thomas" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Young Blackbelts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > No. In Korea, The training >is harder, faster and much more intense then in the U.S. or Canada. At >least most of the time. I grow weary of this learned helplessness and generalizations. The Koreans are not better than Americans or Canadians. Tae Kwon Do is not nearly the country shaking movement that we project it to be there. All Koreans do not wake up on a large scale and practice Tae Kwon Do. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "rwood" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:23:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Black Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ladies & Gentlemen, I have been reading the posts concerning the age v. black belt discussion. Some say that if the individual fulfills the requirements for the rank they should be awarded the rank. Other are saying that age is a factor often left out of the process. I look around the Dojang I train in and find individuals who are at different levels of ability, giftedness, and desire. TKD or the martial arts in general are an individual endeavor. Instructors are leaders and guides along the way; however it is up to the individual to apply themselves toward the art. Those Masters/instructors who are hucksters and hustlers, well I have read on the DD and heard accounts of students seeking authentic training after discovering the true motivation of the hucksters and hustlers. My question the instructors who oppose the grant of black belts or Dan rank to preteens is this; if you say it will take 2 to 3 years to reach black belt do you train individuals younger than 16 or 15 years of age? Meaning the student will become a black belt on or about their 18th birthday. I am but a 4th Keup or Gup in TKD with aspirations to teach the art. I will never be able to do a jumping side kick with the height of some of our 20 something black belts nor can I spin with the same grace that they do. The question is will I be a good instructor? The answer is yes. I will not get into the comparing game. I have a desire to overcome the physical limitations I started with and will teach the art as best I can with in my ability and giftedness. I have come to the understanding that black belt is not the apex of the art but the beginning of true understanding of the art. The principles of honor, courage, and respect are why parents bring the children to the dojang; McDojangs are ill equipped to give these principles any thing more than a passing nod. Ladies and gentleman, you provide more than just physical training; you provide life training. This mentoring is not imparted on your students because you are an “x” degree black belt, but because you are a master of principle. End of sermon. IHS, Rob He who ignores disciple comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored. Proverbs 13:18 This electronic communication is from Moberly Public Schools, and is confidential, privileged, and intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, unauthorized disclosure, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the CIS Department immediately at the following e-mail address: tech@moberly.k12.mo.us or by calling 660-269-2665. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:45:10 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Young Blackbelts To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Amcreva, > In Korea, The training is harder, faster and much more intense then in the U.S. or Canada. At least most of the time. I was there in 1969 and 1970 - my training in the US was harder, higher level, and more often than in Korea. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:28:10 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Art V V" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Age / Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Like it was stated before, there are exceptions. I see in our class maybe 1 in 15 young students who are there because they want to be. The others are there because of their parents. These few excel in the art because of their own commitment. I believe that only 1/2 of these students will carry on and become true MAs or instructors. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 18c_blue.gif] --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:35:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Rank that smelled rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I was six months away from 3rd Dan, I had a fellow student that was 4 plus years behind me in rank (he had just received 1st Dan) tell me that since he trained 6 days a week now, he would shorten his time training. In his words; "If I train only twice a week, it would take me 2 years to get to 2nd Dan but, if I train 6 days a week, I can shorten this to only one year." I told him that I didn't think that was right but, I let it go as ego on my part or him just strutting in front of me. Since this made me think less of him, I avoided his conversations for a while. (After all, I was busy training hard, building my stamina for the upcoming test) -a shameful excuse but still true. Sure enough, in a year's time he tested for 2nd Dan. Although I respected my Sah Bum Nim (still do, a good man) at the time, I felt cheated. He got in one year, what took me 2 and a half years. Has anyone else heard of this? Train more often - equals - shorten your time requirement? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:49:23 -0700 From: instructor@realtaekwondo.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] forms interpretation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just like in Chinese Martial Arts, in Taekwondo, if you don't know how to interpret the forms to combat applications then you don't know that system/art. Master Eddie Urbistondo --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:14:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Real Teaching! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The quote from James Morgan's post..."they are the only ones to teach "real" TKD because they are Korean"...made me laugh remembering this discussion some years ago at my school. The assertion was that Koreans promoted themselves quickly to 'stay on top' of their American counterparts and they justified these promotions by saying that only Koreans could teach a Korean art...to which my teacher then said OK, if only Koreans can teach it, then it is only logical to conclude that only a Korean could understand how to learn a Korean art...and maybe the Americans should then go learn a different art...and stop sending money to Korea? :-) -Brooke Hapkido Blend --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:48:18 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rank that smelled rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In my opinion time requirements are somewhat arbitrary and vary from one school to another. There is no one set standard and if there was one who set it? The general principle of maturing in rank is valid but I believe the time factor is a guideline and only a guideline and the individual instructor should have and take great latitude in making choices on when or when not to test. Steven Riggs Gordon wrote: When I was six months away from 3rd Dan, I had a fellow student that was 4 plus years behind me in rank (he had just received 1st Dan) tell me that since he trained 6 days a week now, he would shorten his time training. In his words; "If I train only twice a week, it would take me 2 years to get to 2nd Dan but, if I train 6 days a week, I can shorten this to only one year." I told him that I didn't think that was right but, I let it go as ego on my part or him just strutting in front of me. Since this made me think less of him, I avoided his conversations for a while. (After all, I was busy training hard, building my stamina for the upcoming test) -a shameful excuse but still true. Sure enough, in a year's time he tested for 2nd Dan. Although I respected my Sah Bum Nim (still do, a good man) at the time, I felt cheated. He got in one year, what took me 2 and a half years. Has anyone else heard of this? Train more often - equals - shorten your time requirement? Gordon Okerstrom _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2˘/min or less. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Real Teaching! Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 01:10:45 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Great point...what's good for the goose is good for the gander.. Michael Tomlinson >From: Brooke Thomas >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Real Teaching! >Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:14:03 -0700 (PDT) > >The quote from James Morgan's post..."they are the >only ones to teach "real" TKD because they are >Korean"...made me laugh remembering this discussion >some years ago at my school. The assertion was that >Koreans promoted themselves quickly to 'stay on top' >of their American counterparts and they justified >these promotions by saying that only Koreans could >teach a Korean art...to which my teacher then said OK, >if only Koreans can teach it, then it is only logical >to conclude that only a Korean could understand how to >learn a Korean art...and maybe the Americans should >then go learn a different art...and stop sending money >to Korea? :-) > >-Brooke >Hapkido Blend >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rank that smelled rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > In my opinion time requirements are somewhat arbitrary and vary from one > school to another. There is no one set standard and if there was one who > set it? There is typically a well defined time requirement set by whatever org a school belongs to. True, some schools are independent. The defined time requirement for rank is for Dan ranks only. Gup ranks are typically not monitored or tracked by orgs. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:12:11 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bobsled fed ties the USTU Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net USOC temporarily takes over bobsled/skeleton federation Posted 4/26/2006 DENVER (AP) — The board of the U.S. Bobsled and Skeleton Federation voted Tuesday to accept an overhaul and temporary takeover by the U.S. Olympic Committee, a result of the many problems the federation has endured over the several months. During and immediately before the Torino Olympics, the federation was hit hard by sexual harassment allegations against former skeleton coach Tim Nardiello and the drug-related suspension of men's skeleton racer Zach Lund for a banned substance in a hair-restoration product he was using. [snip] This marks only the second time the USOC has been pushed to the drastic step of essentially taking over a sport's governing body. The other time was with the U.S. Taekwondo Union in 2004. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest