Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:54:55 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #188 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Does TKD 5x a week (The_Dojang) 2. International Taekwondo Federation = WTF ?? (The_Dojang) 3. Kids vs. Adults (J.R. West) 4. RE: Real Teaching! (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 5. Successful commercial school (Thomas Gordon) 6. Re: Successful commercial school (Alida) 7. Older students (Curt McCauley) 8. RE: Successful commercial school (Thomas Gordon) 9. RE: Successful commercial school (Alida) 10. from another group: wtf vs itf (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:40:08 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Does TKD 5x a week Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Man Fights Off ATM Attack Helpers Aid Intended Victim Fend Off Assault http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/9037053/detail.html?rss=bos&psp=news BOSTON -- A Somerville, Mass., man is under arrest, charged with a screwdriver attack during an attempted ATM robbery, and the intended victim says there was no way he was going to let someone take his money. NewsCenter 5's Mary Saladna reported that Karl Volker was making his nightly deposit at an automatic teller machine on Winter Street Tuesday night, a block from the two businesses he owns and operates nearby, when Felix Pierre, 27, allegedly jumped him and tried to grab the money bag containing about $10,000. "All of a sudden this guy jumps out and went flying over and his screwdriver, backwards, smacked me on the head," Volker said. Volker's attacker didn't expect his intended victim to fight back. With a bruised and swollen right eye, Volker talked about the assault. "First, I didn't want to give him the money. Secondly, I figured ... I got angry. I got really angry. I do taekwondo five days a week, for a long time. And I spar, you know, so you have a little pride in being able to defend yourself and, subconsciously, I couldn't let a punk beat me," Volker said. It didn't hurt that a security guard from the nearby Filene's store and another passer-by provided backup. The trio managed to pin down the assailant until police arrived. The attack comes on the heels of a number of muggings in the Boston Common area. Police have stepped up surveillance in the area and have made five arrests over the weekend for street crimes in the vicinity. "Our hope is that we have taken people off the street who were causing problems there, but we'll continue to focus on that area with increased patrols," Police Commissioner Kathleen O'Toole said. Meanwhile, Pierre was held on $50,000 bail. Volker said he won't be making any more night bank deposits. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:01:26 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] International Taekwondo Federation = WTF ?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I guess this different org stuff can get pretty confusing... :) Taekwon-dó: Federation Runs Fifth Course For National Referees Angola Press News Luanda, 04/27 - The Angolan Taekwando Federation (FATKD) holds on Friday and Saturday the fifth course of the sport, taking place at Cidadela Sports complex with theory and practical lessons. According to the agenda made available to ANGOP, topics relating to the characteristics of the referee, rules of competition and recommendations for the central judge in case of emergency, will be analysed during the meeting. The training action aims updating referees on modernised techniques of the International Taekwondo Federation (WTF). The course is scheduled to end on Saturday. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:31:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kids vs. Adults Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Who here is a student at, or instructor at, or owner of a dojang that only has students that are 14 or older? i.e. only has 'adult' students." Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com Ray: as you know, that would be me.....I have a black belt that has a small kids class at my school (less than 10), but I do only adults, and we only did kids for a few years while my wife was healthy, and believe me, it was all her idea........From 1973 to 1991, no-one trained under the age of 15, but now I'll drop down to 12 if the kid can focus and be treated as an adult. The youngest dan grade I have will be 16 this summer, and most of my dan holders are much older (like me).....JRWest www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:54:10 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Real Teaching! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Brooke: I had assumed that James was joking. But you never know... BTW, very well said. JRH www.rrhapkido.com Jere: No joking, if that is what you were referring to. This has been said repeatedly by the instructor of this school I was talking about as was told to me by parents and students who are now my students and not theirs any longer. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:42:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Successful commercial school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I think "successful school" in business terms, I consider a school that: 1 - Pays the instructor/owner a livable wage ($10K a year is NOT a livable wage) 2 - Pays all overhead such as building costs, insurances, etc Assuming a few monthly payments: $3000 for instructor/owner $2000 for rent $200 for power bill $200 for advertising (that's a tiny budget) $125 for yellow pages $100 for instructor/owner martial art training $100 for instructor/owner business training $50 for printing & office supplies $50 for phone $50 for student insurance $50 for trash/water/sewer $5925 a month and I think most of these numbers are low. How many of us can be providers for our family at $36K a year? With a second income - sure. Anyway, so we need about $6K a month. And we don't want to "sell out" so we'll charge $50 a month so we can "do it for the art." Well folks, that's 120 students. And, don't forget our family discounts and discount for early payments so maybe more like 150 students. No contracts either because that wouldn't be traditional you know. I'd venture to say that a decent sized community would struggle to handle that. In our school, right now we have about 30-40 in our adult class. So the ONLY way we could make a decent living is to (A) teach out of our garage or (B) raise rates to $170 a month. Now I didn't take into consideration about testing fees (for those that sold out and charge to test) and profit from sparring gear (for those that sold out even more and actually try to make a few bucks on gear and uniforms). I heard one guy actually tell his students to look on ebay for sparring gear deals! And then, almost in the same breath was crying about not being able to replace worn out bags/mats/etc. I looked up and saw several burned out lights. I'm still shaking my head over that one. And in case anyone's missed it and didn't catch on, I'm being real sarcastic on the "selling out" comments. Selling out is when you don't take enough money home for your kids to go to a decent college. I consider that being "sold out" on stupid. As if "the art" matters more than your family. I know, I know, you can work a full time job and provide for you family and still teach at night so you won't sell out. Yeah, that's a real high quality of life. When is there time for the family? Lastly, as a disclaimer, we can't look at schools that make supplemental income on outside sources such as seminars, organizational fees, selling their programs/books/consulting, etc. Anymore than we can consider schools that don't pay the instructor/owner or teach out of their garage. I heard a very successful business owner do a presentation one time knowing full well he was bankrupt. He made more money selling his get rich fast scheme than he ever did in business for himself. Ironically, his get rich fast scheme didn't work and he went bankrupt again and so did the companies that bought into the silly ideas. And for the record, by that definition above, we aren't a "successful school" yet but we're not far from it. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:56:07 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Alida" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Successful commercial school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you for this - do you mind if I forward this to my Kwan Jang Nim? I am a Blue Belt who volunteers her time helping a 16 month old school with 115 students to get off the ground, as the webmaster, data entry 'specialist , all around "if it needs to be done" person. My instructor tends to be one who will guide people towards things on eBay, though he can sell them for a slight profit. It's something I'm trying to work with him on! Alida -------Original Message------- From: Thomas Gordon Date: 04/27/06 22:48:55 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Successful commercial school When I think "successful school" in business terms, I consider a school that: 1 - Pays the instructor/owner a livable wage ($10K a year is NOT a livable wage) 2 - Pays all overhead such as building costs, insurances, etc Assuming a few monthly payments: $3000 for instructor/owner $2000 for rent $200 for power bill $200 for advertising (that's a tiny budget) $125 for yellow pages $100 for instructor/owner martial art training $100 for instructor/owner business training $50 for printing & office supplies $50 for phone $50 for student insurance $50 for trash/water/sewer $5925 a month and I think most of these numbers are low. How many of us can be providers for our family at $36K a year? With a second income - sure. Anyway, so we need about $6K a month. And we don't want to "sell out" so we'll charge $50 a month so we can "do it for the art." Well folks, that's 120 students. And, don't forget our family discounts and discount for early payments so maybe more like 150 students. No contracts either because that wouldn't be traditional you know. I'd venture to say that a decent sized community would struggle to handle that. In our school, right now we have about 30-40 in our adult class. So the ONLY way we could make a decent living is to (A) teach out of our garage or (B) raise rates to $170 a month. Now I didn't take into consideration about testing fees (for those that sold out and charge to test) and profit from sparring gear (for those that sold out even more and actually try to make a few bucks on gear and uniforms). I heard one guy actually tell his students to look on ebay for sparring gear deals! And then, almost in the same breath was crying about not being able to replace worn out bags/mats/etc. I looked up and saw several burned out lights. I'm still shaking my head over that one. And in case anyone's missed it and didn't catch on, I'm being real sarcastic on the "selling out" comments. Selling out is when you don't take enough money home for your kids to go to a decent college. I consider that being "sold out" on stupid. As if "the art" matters more than your family. I know, I know, you can work a full time job and provide for you family and still teach at night so you won't sell out. Yeah, that's a real high quality of life. When is there time for the family? Lastly, as a disclaimer, we can't look at schools that make supplemental income on outside sources such as seminars, organizational fees, selling their programs/books/consulting, etc. Anymore than we can consider schools that don't pay the instructor/owner or teach out of their garage. I heard a very successful business owner do a presentation one time knowing full well he was bankrupt. He made more money selling his get rich fast scheme than he ever did in business for himself. Ironically, his get rich fast scheme didn't work and he went bankrupt again and so did the companies that bought into the silly ideas. And for the record, by that definition above, we aren't a "successful school" yet but we're not far from it. Thomas Gordon Florida _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.0/325 - Release Date: 4/26/2006 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:50:13 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Older students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Who here is a student at, or instructor at, or owner of a dojang that only has students that are 14 or older? i.e. only has 'adult' students. Ray, My stufio, a small one, currently has two active students under 14 years and one inactive one. Three inactive teen agers. One active 19 year old who is testing for Sam Dan next month. I live in a small community where the school system has such a small student body they seem to have all the students engaged in sports, theater, Band and other extra curricular activities. Being in my 60's probably doesn't help gain younger students. However, who has all of the $$$ in the U.S. (Baby Boomers) I have many Dans in the 50 and up age range, a few in their 40's, several in the 60's and one in the 70's. I also have a small group in the 20's and 30's. That said, who can benefit the most from entering a martial art? Kids to learn discipline, self confidence,coordination, goal setting and hopefully some defense mechanics. Adults: Stress reduction, flexibility, range of motion, endurance, balance, coordination, a place away from the bar and the couch, and hopefully some defense mechanics. I really feel and have found that adults make the best students. For a lot of studios the constant influx of new kids who will be gone in a few months keeps the doors open for the often older and more serious practitioner. Most adults now days associate words "karate" "Tae Kwon Do" etc. and the phrase "Martial arts" with kids, and would never guess how good it is for them. I guess it is our duty to re-educate the population. Was that two bits worth?? Sincerely Curt McCauley --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Successful commercial school Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:51:57 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ms. Alida, I don't mind but he may be offended. I was when I was first told I was being naïve on some things and downright dumb in others. After I got over my pride, I realized they were right. Bottom line, the more money we make, the better our personal training, the nicer the facility looks, the more security the student has in knowing their school will be open tomorrow, and the higher quality of life for our family. On personal training, as I've said many, many times, Grandmaster West's biannual weekend Korean fest is the best deal going. $65 for 12 possible sessions over three days?! Man, you can't beat it. However, you still gotta get there, eat, and stay somewhere. Last time, I'm thinking it was about $500 for me and da bride to do the weekend. The point is, who paid for that? In a true business world, the customer pays for everything. So the $100 a month I had figured in the example was shot for 5 months on ONE training session/weekend. Again, well worth it but somebody has to pay for it. I see these guys saying don't do contracts/EFT, don't charge more than $50-60 a month, don't charge for testings, don't markup sparring gear, etc and yet we're suppose to pay for training? How?!? Oh yeah, work some overtime at your day job so your kids can have an absentee parent. Bravo! The student needs to understand that the more (within reason of course) a REAL martial arts instructor makes the better THEIR training will be due to better facility and better training for their instructor to teach them. The instructor needs to understand that they must continue to put some of the money back in the school and back into their training. The only way to do that is to have some money to work with. And folks, unless you're rent is free, you have supplemental income, or you "do it for the art", $65 a month tuition ain't gonna get it (in the USofA with an average cost of living). Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:18:18 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Alida" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Successful commercial school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Gordon: Thank you. I don't think he will be offended, we have had some very good talks recently about the running of the school. He has long term goals and my 'job', right now, is to help him realize those goals while balancing his desire to keep his training open to as many as possible. We have a class meeting this Sunday to prepare for an upcoming tournament and he and I will be meeting after that to discuss the school. This email comes at a great time :) Again - thank you! Alida -------Original Message------- From: Thomas Gordon Date: 04/28/06 00:13:59 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Successful commercial school Ms. Alida, I don't mind but he may be offended. I was when I was first told I was being naïve on some things and downright dumb in others. After I got over my pride, I realized they were right. Bottom line, the more money we make, the better our personal training, the nicer the facility looks, the more security the student has in knowing their school will be open tomorrow, and the higher quality of life for our family. On personal training, as I've said many, many times, Grandmaster West's biannual weekend Korean fest is the best deal going. $65 for 12 possible sessions over three days?! Man, you can't beat it. However, you still gotta get there, eat, and stay somewhere. Last time, I'm thinking it was about $500 for me and da bride to do the weekend. The point is, who paid for that? In a true business world, the customer pays for everything. So the $100 a month I had figured in the example was shot for 5 months on ONE training session/weekend. Again, well worth it but somebody has to pay for it. I see these guys saying don't do contracts/EFT, don't charge more than $50-60 a month, don't charge for testings, don't markup sparring gear, etc and yet we're suppose to pay for training? How?!? Oh yeah, work some overtime at your day job so your kids can have an absentee parent. Bravo! The student needs to understand that the more (within reason of course) a REAL martial arts instructor makes the better THEIR training will be due to better facility and better training for their instructor to teach them. The instructor needs to understand that they must continue to put some of the money back in the school and back into their training. The only way to do that is to have some money to work with. And folks, unless you're rent is free, you have supplemental income, or you "do it for the art", $65 a month tuition ain't gonna get it (in the USofA with an average cost of living). Thomas Gordon Florida _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.0/325 - Release Date: 4/26/2006 . --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:41:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] from another group: wtf vs itf Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I got this from another group and wanted to see what yo9u guys thought: " was just at a TKD tournament where I saw a couple of national level ITF guys mix it up with a WTF olympic hopeful (whose name I will release pending his acceptence onto the Canadian team). Now...I used to dis ITF sparring when compared with WTF. Mainly because as an ITF kinda guy, I had trouble with WTF rules/fighters. That said, when the shoe is on the other foot, the WTF guy was all but helpless in the ring against his ITF counterparts. It seems the WTF techniques were stopped easily by checking-kicks. I'd like to hear what TKD guys have to say about this." --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest