Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 03:00:38 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #195 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Meaning of Chun Ji - ITF Form (bjpritch@comcast.net) 2. Small Circle Jujitsu (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 3. Re: Meaning of Chun Ji - ITF Form (Jye nigma) 4. Re: Small Circle Jujitsu (imakikr) 5. RE: Small Circle Jujitsu (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: bjpritch@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 14:02:27 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Meaning of Chun Ji - ITF Form Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All, I realize I may be a novice to teaching compared to many of you, however I'be been watching the email on this with some interest because I teach the ITF forms. I was taught that Chun Ji is the first form taught to beginners, it's nothing but down blocks, in-to-out blocks, and punches. Is it possible to just take it at face value and not find hidden meaning. Many people who start martial arts have a difficult time blocking with the correct hand over the correct leg. Or blocking and punching up and down the dojang floor. Chun Ji teaches basic blocks, and turns in all four directions which is sometimes hard to do with good stances for beginners. I may be wrong but I always tell my beginners it's the stepping stone of future forms. It's where we learn to turn and block, and be aware of other directions. Because we always review older forms, I will turn it into a bunkai (or practical app) for my higher belts. I will have an attacker stand in all four directions, then on the command to start a person will begin the form and the four attackers will attack when the form moves intheir direction. It's amazing how it comes to life when someone is throwing a low front kick, or a middle punch at you as you do your form. This gets the higher belts to turn with a sense of urgency as they know an attack is coming. It also gets the attackers thinking of what they can attack with. My only guideline is the attack must be blockable with the standard move from the form. This seems to work well as a re-inforcing tool for us. I may be wrong in not teaching hidden meanig in the beginning forms, but I find my students are good to accept it as a learning step, and then apply to it at higher levels when they are seeking more knowledge. I don't want to overwhelm them on week one, but build them up to a solid student. Just my input on it - this and a dollar 25 will get you a cup of coffee at the local 7-11 BJ Pritchett --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 10:41:20 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Small Circle Jujitsu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dave Weller asked: >Can anyone give any insight into small circle jujitsu? Sure. >Is it related to Korean Martial arts in any way? No >Effectiveness? I tested in Small Circle to about purple belt. The style was founded by Wally Jay (who trained in Danzan-ryu jujutsu under Henry Seishiro Okazaki, as well as boxing (his first love) and judo. The basic concepts of the art (small circle theory) are useful for anyone who does jointlocks, and the basic exercises that Wally taught were excellent. The art concentrates on taking away space (closing), and using small joint manipulations (especially finger locks) to reduce the amount of damage to the opponent while retaining the ability to control through pain. Efficacy depends, as always, upon the people doing the art. Wally taught the art largely through seminars for many years, so aside from the people at the home dojo in Alameda (now closed), there was a LOT of cross-training in the art. Wally did workshops with Remy Presas and George Dillman in the late 1980s and 1990s, so those are strong links. Besides that, there were often instructors of either Danzan-ryu jujutsu or of Jeet kune do who showed up at the workshops. Wally always drew a great crowd. About a quarter of the attendees at his workshops were 6th dan or above in some other art, so they were great experiences. There were originally four inheritors of the art -- Leon Jay, Ed Melaugh, Lee Eichelberger, and Ron Ogi. All of these guys have great skills. I see that Ron is still teaching seminars (at Portland Small Circle, for example) but that he is not listed on the list of official instructors at the Small Circle site (listed below). I think he had a falling out with Wally, but I don't know the details. Leon Jay currently is the head instructor for the art. A word to the wise -- have Leon demonstrate the choke on someone else! More on all this at http://www.smallcirclejujitsu.com/scjhistory.html http://www.smallcirclejujitsu.com/dojos.html PS: my favorite videos on small circle are: Small Circle Jujitsu International's 1997 Hawaiian Convention Video Series Small Circle Jujitsu Tape 5 - Tendon Tricep Armbars & Armlocks by Professor Wally Jay I haven't seen the foundations tape, but I bet that one would be excellent as well. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Meaning of Chun Ji - ITF Form To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is how I see thr forms. Think of a painting in a museum. It can be taken on face value and that's fine, but the more seasoned or experienced artist, or students of art will "see" many other things such as how the painting was created (strokes), the theory of art used in the painting, etc and by the time they're finished their interpretation of the painting is so much different then what was taken on face value. So now it becomes quite clear that a simple movement :.:downblock punch:.:can have as many meanings as what people can "see". wonder that be an interesting exercise for an instructor to have his class do? have everyone in the class come up with an application for an action like the first 3 movements of chon-ji tul? I wonder what they'd come up with? Jye bjpritch@comcast.net wrote: Hi All, I realize I may be a novice to teaching compared to many of you, however I'be been watching the email on this with some interest because I teach the ITF forms. I was taught that Chun Ji is the first form taught to beginners, it's nothing but down blocks, in-to-out blocks, and punches. Is it possible to just take it at face value and not find hidden meaning. Many people who start martial arts have a difficult time blocking with the correct hand over the correct leg. Or blocking and punching up and down the dojang floor. Chun Ji teaches basic blocks, and turns in all four directions which is sometimes hard to do with good stances for beginners. I may be wrong but I always tell my beginners it's the stepping stone of future forms. It's where we learn to turn and block, and be aware of other directions. Because we always review older forms, I will turn it into a bunkai (or practical app) for my higher belts. I will have an attacker stand in all four directions, then on the command to start a person will begin the form and the four attackers will attack when the form moves intheir direction. It's amazing how it comes to life when someone is throwing a low front kick, or a middle punch at you as you do your form. This gets the higher belts to turn with a sense of urgency as they know an attack is coming. It also gets the attackers thinking of what they can attack with. My only guideline is the attack must be blockable with the standard move from the form. This seems to work well as a re-inforcing tool for us. I may be wrong in not teaching hidden meanig in the beginning forms, but I find my students are good to accept it as a learning step, and then apply to it at higher levels when they are seeking more knowledge. I don't want to overwhelm them on week one, but build them up to a solid student. Just my input on it - this and a dollar 25 will get you a cup of coffee at the local 7-11 BJ Pritchett _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "imakikr" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Small Circle Jujitsu Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 13:33:01 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well said about professor Wally Jay and Small Circle Jujitsu. I attended a Danzan Ryu Camp several years ago and took Wally Jay's seminar and it was awesome. For being an older man he could make the big young guys break dance with just one finger. I just taught some of the Small Circle Jujitsu concepts and jont locks in my TaeKwonDo classes last week. They loved it; and it is efective, particularly if someone is grabbing or reaching for you. Good luck in your training. Master Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 7:41 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Small Circle Jujitsu > Dave Weller asked: > >>Can anyone give any insight into small circle jujitsu? > > Sure. > >>Is it related to Korean Martial arts in any way? > > No > >>Effectiveness? > > I tested in Small Circle to about purple belt. The style was founded by > Wally Jay (who trained in Danzan-ryu jujutsu under Henry Seishiro > Okazaki, as well as boxing (his first love) and judo. The basic > concepts of the art (small circle theory) are useful for anyone who does > jointlocks, and the basic exercises that Wally taught were excellent. > The art concentrates on taking away space (closing), and using small > joint manipulations (especially finger locks) to reduce the amount of > damage to the opponent while retaining the ability to control through > pain. Efficacy depends, as always, upon the people doing the art. > Wally taught the art largely through seminars for many years, so aside > from the people at the home dojo in Alameda (now closed), there was a > LOT of cross-training in the art. Wally did workshops with Remy Presas > and George Dillman in the late 1980s and 1990s, so those are strong > links. Besides that, there were often instructors of either Danzan-ryu > jujutsu or of Jeet kune do who showed up at the workshops. Wally always > drew a great crowd. About a quarter of the attendees at his workshops > were 6th dan or above in some other art, so they were great experiences. > There were originally four inheritors of the art -- Leon Jay, Ed > Melaugh, Lee Eichelberger, and Ron Ogi. All of these guys have great > skills. I see that Ron is still teaching seminars (at Portland Small > Circle, for example) but that he is not listed on the list of official > instructors at the Small Circle site (listed below). I think he had a > falling out with Wally, but I don't know the details. Leon Jay > currently is the head instructor for the art. A word to the wise -- > have Leon demonstrate the choke on someone else! > > More on all this at > > http://www.smallcirclejujitsu.com/scjhistory.html > http://www.smallcirclejujitsu.com/dojos.html > > PS: my favorite videos on small circle are: > > Small Circle Jujitsu International's 1997 Hawaiian Convention Video > Series > Small Circle Jujitsu Tape 5 - Tendon Tricep Armbars & Armlocks by > Professor Wally Jay > > I haven't seen the foundations tape, but I bet that one would be > excellent as well. > > Yours in the arts, > > Dakin > dakinburdick@yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 17:47:26 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Small Circle Jujitsu To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One of the things that Wally Jay would teach is to apply pressure in multiple ways. So not only would you apply pressure against a joint you would perhaps twist the joint at the same time, and take up "slack" in other ways. This was something that he would apply to all of the techniques he would teach not only in joint locks but in throws as well. Rick Clark "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest