Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 11:06:41 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #197 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Discrimination in Children (Drew Burns) 2. Re: Take away the pretentiousness...Please!!!!! (sidtkd@aol.com) 3. RE: CS Kim hosts event (Kay Ethier at Above and Beyond Learning) 4. BJ's Problem (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 5. Re: Discrimination in Children (Tim) 6. (no subject) (Rob Wood) 7. Small circle and fingers (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 8. Re: Discrimination in Children (Richard Wright) 9. RE: ki finger (J R Hilland) 10. WTF Appoints 2 More (The_Dojang) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Drew Burns" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Discrimination in Children Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 17:25:59 +1000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Mr. Pritchard. I don't have any answers for you but just one word of advice. Be careful using names on an 'open' list. This student of which you speak has as much right to privacy as anyone else. I know you only used her first name but someone with a bit of savvy could probably track down whom you are talking about. Regards, Drew ----- Original Message ----- From: "BJ Pritchett" To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 11:15 AM SNIP > The whole situation takes me quite by surprise because I've never seen this > attitude in someone so young before. ***** is only 5. Any thoughts or > ideas on how you all have dealt with this in your pasts would be greatly > appreciated. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 07:03:53 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Take away the pretentiousness...Please!!!!! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have heard since 1964 about all the nobility, high virtue, spirituality and values associated with martial arts. So many people talk about money as an evil in a dojang. After 42 years I've learned this...it's a lot of B.S>! Let's cut this nonsense out once and for all. I'm also a bodybuilder. If I don't pay Bally's I'm out...case closed. No high virtues there. If I don't train hard I'll look terrible...case closed. So here's the deal...train hard in your dojang and pay your tuition. Masters...give them what they paid for. Students stop crying, masters if they pass give them their certificates. All the values I've read about I've seen once in a while but martial arts is a sport and a business. It's not a vocation in a cloistered order. Sid --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Kay Ethier at Above and Beyond Learning" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] CS Kim hosts event Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 09:15:51 -0400 Organization: Above and Beyond Language Learning Inc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'll be there with my kids. It is our first year going. I was hoping to compete, but when I heard how HUGE the competition was I decided I'd need to spend all of my time keeping track of where the kids were and what competitions they had. :-) Anyone else from this list going to be there? Kay -----Original Message----- From: The_Dojang [mailto:the.dojang.digest@gmail.com] Martial arts competition here Wednesday, May 03, 2006 Pittsburgh Post-Gazette About 1,200 martial artists from the U.S. and Canada will be in Pittsburgh Saturday for the 32nd All Martial Arts Championship. Competitions in more than 300 divisions will be held at the Fitzgerald Field House at the University of Pittsburgh. There will be bouts between martial arts students as young as 4 and as old as 65 plus. Many of the bouts will be cross disciplinary, in which a student of one of the various schools of karate squares off against a student of kung fu, or judo. Chief organizer for the All Martial Arts Championship is Master C.S. Kim, who teaches the Tang Soo Do version style of Korean karate at his studio at 3955 Monroeville Boulevard in Monroeville. Registration begins at 7 a.m. Saturday at the Fitzgerald Field House, with opening ceremonies at 9 a.m. The field house is located at the intersection of Allequippa and Darragh streets. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 08:24:10 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] BJ's Problem Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net BJ, I am not an expert but I do have some experience dealing with children. At 5 years old, I don't think the term discrimination applies. That is an adult concept. (Not that kids don't see and emulate what they see others doing. They do.) This little girl seems quite outspoken, and may have formed her opinion about the instructors black belt herself or been told this jokingly. You did not say she has said anything derogatory, just that she wants to be close to and work with other kids the same race. It is normal for kids to be more comfortable with what they are used to, and she may not be used to playing with, or interacting with other races. It is also possible that she is spoiled and used to getting exactly what she wants. Don't know if you do this or not, but I always talk to my students individually and let them know what is expected. Perhaps that might help, rather than just answering her questions as they arise. I would include her parents if you talk to her, but I would talk to her and not her parents. If her parents disagree with what you are telling her, which is probably not the case since they chose your class to start with, then they can always find her another class. I have found that more often than not, if children know what you expect, they will rise to meet your expectations. Danny Dunn <<<>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Tim" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Discrimination in Children Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 09:37:44 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would involve the parents. I think that taking time off is the last thing that the child needs. She clearly needs to experience more cultures than just her own. In my experience, children are always the last people to see a difference in race. They aren't born with any preconceived notions of anything or anyone. Keep this in mind when talking to the parents. Goodluck, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "BJ Pritchett" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:15 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Discrimination in Children > All, > > I instruct a youth class and recently had a young African-American child > join my class. I think I have a case of discrimination going on at the > child level and am unsure how to address it. I should point out that I > tend > to be very direct, and not always real diplomatic, hence my looking for > input. > > This student has attended approximately 4 classes. She has made comments > in > class such as "Why do I have to stand next to the white girl?" (her exact > words). I told her that we lined up in belt order and because she was a > beginner white belt, she would stand next to the other white belts. On > another class she told me it was not fair that I had a black belt because > I > was a white person and her brother's last instructor was black, so he had > a > black belt. (She and her brother joined up for class together, he has > prior > experience, she is new). I explained to her that I had trained for a > really > long time and earned my black belt and that was why I had it. Last but > not > least, I always close my classes by asking does anyone have any questions > or > concerns before we close class. This little girl raised her hand and > asked > why do I have to listen to you? In this case I simply reversed the > question > to her and asked her why did she have to listen to her school teachers and > why did she have to listen to adults? I was an adult teacher that her > parents wished for me to teach her Tae Kwon Do. Therefore she should > listen > to me, and if she did not want to do this, we could talk it over with her > mom and dad. I'll see her at our next class tomorrow night... > > Now that you have the background, my thought is to have a talk with the > parents and let them know that Jayde is having difficulty in class right > now > and does not work well with others as she has difficulty following what > they > ask her to do. Maybe if she takes the summer off and tries at the > beginning > of the school year when she starts school she may be a bit more prepared. > > I realize this does not address the possible issue of discrimination, but > I'm not sure how to address it and I'm not sure it's really there. Maybe > I > am being to sensitive and drawing opinions to quickly. I know if it's not > a > black belt, and the person is white, Jayde simply chooses not to do what > they say, which simply does not work in class because I often pair my > students together to help each other. She always tells me she wants to > work > with one of five kids (always the other African american children) and I > don't feel that should be the only children she works with. > > The whole situation takes me quite by surprise because I've never seen > this > attitude in someone so young before. Jayde is only 5. Any thoughts or > ideas on how you all have dealt with this in your pasts would be greatly > appreciated. > > Yours in the Arts, > BJ Pritchett > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Rob Wood" Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 09:44:51 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net B.J. How is the behavior of the older brother and her parents toward you?  If they are “OK” with people of European descent, then I believe she is learning the behavior someplace other than home.  You could approach the parents about her lack of tolerance for people of other ethnic groups.  The other side of that is, if she is being taught this at home, no matter what you say or how you approach the issue, it will be ugly.  Any Euro-American that broaches the subject of discrimination needs batten down the hatches.  My prayers are with you.       IHS Rob Wood Buy the truth and dot not sell it; get wisdom, disciple and understnding.  Proverbs 23:23 --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 10:59:10 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Small circle and fingers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dave Weller wrote: >I picked up Wally Jay's book "Small Circle Jujitsu" on a recent trip Great book, lots of good stuff, but I ought to mention that the terms in the book are actually NOT the ones Wally uses. The editor decided he knew more about terminology than Wally and changed it as he felt necessary. Amazing, yes? My copy has the actual terms written in pencil next to the ones in the book, so I could remember what to do for my tests. Jeff wrote: >My only concern, that guy who doesn't mind his finger getting broke to get better position (or his cuticle getting pressed on...another SCJJ hallmark technique). Yep, pain compliance doesn't work on everyone, and frankly jointlocking in general is at best a tertiary tactic in a fight. I know football players, especially linemen, often have broken every finger at least once, and just play through it. A determined attacker will keep coming despite a broken ankle or arm, let alone a finger. But the fingerlocks are a great opener or supplement in situation when jointlocks are useful. Frankly, the fingerlocks are why I stopped testing in Small Circle. I figured eventually those locks would lead to arthritic fingers, and I need my fingers... for typing if nothing else! I learned a lot from Small Circle that I didn't learn elsewhere though, so I'm grateful for my time in it. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 08:37:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Wright Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Discrimination in Children To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir, I cannot respond regarding how to manage this issue within the context of your school as I don't run a school, but I can perhaps shed some light on the dynamics underlying the behavior as I conduct research into children's racial identity development and group behavior. I do wonder what her social exposure is like (peers, school, family social network), and how her family views her behavior? Racial identity development research informs us that by age 5 children are beginning to identify who they are within the "us versus them" racial paradigm. By age 8 children are beginning to understand the sort of pragmatic day-to-day implications of belonging to one group or another (stereotypes of group characteristics, expected behavior towards the "other," personal value of belonging to one group or another, etc.). With that background I am guessing your student may be spending time in some social context that highlights racial differences with a slant toward achievement bias, and is repeating the acceptable way in which that awareness is expressed within her social environment. Adults might make racially biased statements within their closest social group but then go ahead and engage in socially appropriate behavior for the situation in which they find themselves while continuing to harbor their biases. Unfortunately, 5 year olds have yet to develop that social filter. Another aspect of her behavior seems to be oppositional-power seeking. These kinds of children find power through pushing buttons; and what is more inflammatory than a racial comment. She is still at the point where her attitudes are maleable (changeable) but that change cannot happen without her being exposed to a social context where those negative attitudes are not acceptable, do not lead to success, and where there are concrete examples that counter her other social experiences, coupled with opportunities for successes and failures as her behavior becomes shaped toward not making inflammatory/demeaning comments about others and learning alternate ways to asking questions, expressing dissatisfaction and gaining power. It seems like you have both an opportunity and a difficult challenge. On the one hand asking her to return when she is more mature will solve your problem, but not hers as she would likely rationalize and receive support for some portion of her oppositional-racially biased attitudes. Allowing her to stay will certainly have an impact on your school, with no guarantee that she will change or that your efforts will be seen as positive and supportive by your students and/or their parents. Talking with her parents about the consequences of her behavior without suggesting whether the behavior is right or wrong may be something to consider, along with collaborating on how you and they might respond to her behavior. At my dojang it is possible for beginners to receive one-on-one training, if that is possible it may be a way to keep her engaged until she can either conform her bahavior or it becomes apparent that changes need to happen outside of the dojang before she can take advantage of what your dojang has to offer. Anyway, just my 2 cents... Regards, Richard BJ Pritchett wrote: All, I instruct a youth class and recently had a young African-American child join my class. I think I have a case of discrimination going on at the child level and am unsure how to address it. I should point out that I tend to be very direct, and not always real diplomatic, hence my looking for input. This student has attended approximately 4 classes. She has made comments in class such as "Why do I have to stand next to the white girl?" (her exact words). I told her that we lined up in belt order and because she was a beginner white belt, she would stand next to the other white belts. On another class she told me it was not fair that I had a black belt because I was a white person and her brother's last instructor was black, so he had a black belt. (She and her brother joined up for class together, he has prior experience, she is new). I explained to her that I had trained for a really long time and earned my black belt and that was why I had it. Last but not least, I always close my classes by asking does anyone have any questions or concerns before we close class. This little girl raised her hand and asked why do I have to listen to you? In this case I simply reversed the question to her and asked her why did she have to listen to her school teachers and why did she have to listen to adults? I was an adult teacher that her parents wished for me to teach her Tae Kwon Do. Therefore she should listen to me, and if she did not want to do this, we could talk it over with her mom and dad. I'll see her at our next class tomorrow night... Now that you have the background, my thought is to have a talk with the parents and let them know that Jayde is having difficulty in class right now and does not work well with others as she has difficulty following what they ask her to do. Maybe if she takes the summer off and tries at the beginning of the school year when she starts school she may be a bit more prepared. I realize this does not address the possible issue of discrimination, but I'm not sure how to address it and I'm not sure it's really there. Maybe I am being to sensitive and drawing opinions to quickly. I know if it's not a black belt, and the person is white, Jayde simply chooses not to do what they say, which simply does not work in class because I often pair my students together to help each other. She always tells me she wants to work with one of five kids (always the other African american children) and I don't feel that should be the only children she works with. The whole situation takes me quite by surprise because I've never seen this attitude in someone so young before. Jayde is only 5. Any thoughts or ideas on how you all have dealt with this in your pasts would be greatly appreciated. Yours in the Arts, BJ Pritchett _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 11:37:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: ki finger Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The use of a ki finger and ki hand are characteristics of hapkido, but not necessarily exclusive. There are several Japanese ki arts that utilize them. We did not invent the wheel, just made it better. :) JRH www.hapkidoselfdefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 10:36:44 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF Appoints 2 More Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF Appoints 2 More Executive Council Members, 3 Advisory Council Members The World Taekwondo Federation newly appointed two Executive Council members and three Advisory Council members on April 27, 2006. The two new Executive Council members are Prof. Kyu-seok Lee, secretary general of the Asian Taekwondo Union; and Mr. Sang-keun Song, vice president of the Kukkiwon. With the new appointments, the number of members in the WTF Executive Council increased to 38. WTF President Chungwon Choue also appointed Mr. Ju-ho Chang, member of the Sport for All Commission of the International Olympic Committee and former vice president of the Korean Olympic Committee, as chairperson of the WTF Advisory Council. Mr. Soo-heung Lee, chairman of Fine Power Systems, was named as vice chairperson of the WTF Advisory Council, while Dr. Sun-jae Park, president of the Italian Taekwondo Federation and honorary president of the European Taekwondo Union, was appointed as a member of the Advisory Council. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest