Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 03:00:36 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #202 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Broken Fingers (michael tomlinson) 2. hidden meanings in forms (TKDgalSamm@aol.com) 3. Re: Real secrets!!!!!!!!!!! (sidtkd@aol.com) 4. RE: Broken Fingers (Rick Clark) 5. Broken fingers and pressure points (Ken Legendre) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 00:10:36 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ok using golf as an analogy...would you try to hit a bowling ball with a golf club??? That is basically what you are trying to do with the pressure points and finger breaks....no offense but just because you see a chart in a book over and over doesn't mean that you can take that drawing and turn it in to a devastating technique...again I feel like the realm of make believe is knocking on the door of reality but reality ain't answering...I hear you ask I wonder why all this stuff is in all these books...I got another question...I wonder why we never see it ever used in real fights???? hmmm Do you really think if some big crazy lunkhead is trying to hurt you really bad that breaking one of his fingers or punching him in a pressure point from a chart you saw in an old chinese book is gonna cause him to stop his attack and change his mind??? Michael Tomlinson >From: "Rick Clark" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers >Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 17:19:33 -0400 > >Hi Michael, > > >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] > >Couldn't of said it better myself....I've had pretty much the same >thing happen to me a few times in life and it's like you don't even > >stop to take inventory of your pain until it's over....hey I like >pressure points and small joint locks but I would never bet my life on >them... > > > > > > Michael Tomlinson > >Using golf as an analogy - would you play a round of golf with just one >club or would you want a full set to play various parts of the course >depending on the distance and the surface of the course? I wonder why >just about every book you look for the martial arts has a chart or list >of pressure points? I wonder why you find these charts going back to >the early 1900's even in the early Judo/Ju-jitsu books? Heck knowledge >of pressure points goes back to the "Hisng Yuan Lu" dates from the >reign of Shun Yu (1241 - 1253). So if they are unimportant why would >they be mentioned in almost all books and why would this information go >back so far? Not only is this knowledge in the Japanese, Chinese, >Okinawan arts but can be found in the Indian art of Calare they make use >of "marma" points that are very similar to acupuncture. > >Rick Clark >www.ao-denkou-kai.org >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: TKDgalSamm@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 20:22:04 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hidden meanings in forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 5/5/2006 12:59:08 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: IF we are building muscle memory then we should be doing so with techniques that we would really use in a self defense application. Not something that looks good in a form. I suggest that there are applications of movements in the various forms that can give you an alternative explanation and still not put you into a position where you have such a hole in your defense. Rick Clark "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org Hense, why Japanese forms (at least the ones I have seen) are not "pretty" like TKD ...... LOL!!!! Sorry ... couldn't resist. Loretta --__--__-- Message: 3 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 20:40:10 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Real secrets!!!!!!!!!!! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here are some real secrets about taekwondo as well as all martial arts: 1) There are NO secrets! 2) There are no spiritual areas in martial arts! 3) There are no super-wise old Asian masters with the treasure trove of hidden meanings and techniques! AND.... 4) There are no free rides 5) No secrets to getting good techniques 6) Life is a zero sum game, what you put in, you "might" take out 7) You don't pay your tuition? Out the hell you go! Oh yeah I forgot....we don't know how to fly, do 720 degree kicks and knocking the horns off a bull was allegedly done only by Mas Oyama. Anyone else have a magic secret? Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 20:51:22 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Michael, >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] > >Ok using golf as an analogy...would you try to hit a bowling ball with a golf club??? No you bowl the ball - you do what is appropriate for the situation. > That is basically what you are trying to do with the pressure points and finger breaks....no offense but just because you >see a chart in a book over and over doesn't mean that you can take that drawing and turn it >in to a devastating technique...again I feel like the realm of make believe is knocking on the door of reality but reality ain't >answering...I hear you ask I wonder why all this stuff is in all these books...I got another >question...I wonder why we never see it ever used in real fights???? Hmmm I don't know about what you see and what you don't see but I do get reports back from people I teach. About 2 days ago I was in a Dr. office waiting for an appointment and one of my ex students was there. I had not seen him for a number of years. We got talking and he was just back from Iraq, he thanked me for what I had taught him and that it had been very useful in a number of situations. He made use of pressure point in a war zone - anywhere from control to breaking the neck of a person who was trying to kill him. I have had police officers and correctional officers report back to me how effective the techniques that I have taught them. I have had women telling me how someone had tried to rape them and they were able to perform techniques that I had taught. I have had bouncers who have worked with me give similar reports. So you telling me that I am not in touch with reality is something I should believe? >Do you really think if some big crazy lunkhead is trying to hurt you really bad that breaking one of his fingers or punching him in a >pressure point from a chart you saw in an old chinese book is gonna cause him to stop his attack and change his mind??? Yes, I do think a pressure point strike can drop a person in an instant, and in situations where the person is being non compliant and trying to hurt me. I have done it, and students of mine have done it. As to the finger break - I had a young lady break the finger of an attacker and it allowed her to escape and she was not assaulted. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org > > >Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 21:23:48 -0500 From: "Ken Legendre" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Broken fingers and pressure points Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I truely believe that pressure points are effective, but hitting a pressure point is very difficult to do. Stop and think about the last time you watched a fight where martial arts was involved. How many times did you see an opponent drop to the floor from getting hit at a pressure point? Winded from an attack, maybe, but more often than not that is due to a breathing problem (ie breathing in while getting kicked.) Pressure points are just too difficult to hit on a moving target. Yes they can work, but when I attack a pressure point on a person that is my secondary objective. The primary objective is to hurt them with the attack. As far as play golf with one club goes... well that's why I have 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 elbows, 2 knees, 10 fingers, 10 toes, a head and if your not careful, I'll sit on you and break out the most dreaded attack of all. Thanks, Ken 4th Dan TKD --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest