Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 16:39:58 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #204 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Meaning of Chun Ji - ITF Form (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 2. Call for Nominations (The_Dojang) 3. Coaching Seminar in Tennessee (The_Dojang) 4. RE: pressure points (Rick Clark) 5. RE: Broken Fingers (Rick Clark) 6. Re: Master Dan on spirituality (sidtkd@aol.com) 7. Real fights (Rudy Timmerman) 8. Re: Real fights (Libu ) 9. Re: Broken Fingers (imakikr) 10. RE: pressure points (michael tomlinson) 11. Re: pressure points (imakikr) 12. Re: Forms interpretations and the applicabillity of Tae Kwon Do (Hindley) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Meaning of Chun Ji - ITF Form Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:05:44 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I see and I like your theory on this. Art as MA has a sort of DA VINCI code for the initiated. I love this stuff! I'm sure as someone has mentioned already that the Chinese where really into that. Let me know if anything is unearthed! Regards, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Sent: 02 May 2006 19:50 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Meaning of Chun Ji - ITF Form This is how I see thr forms. Think of a painting in a museum. It can be taken on face value and that's fine, but the more seasoned or experienced artist, or students of art will "see" many other things such as how the painting was created (strokes), the theory of art used in the painting, etc and by the time they're finished their interpretation of the painting is so much different then what was taken on face value. So now it becomes quite clear that a simple movement :.:downblock punch:.:can have as many meanings as what people can "see". wonder that be an interesting exercise for an instructor to have his class do? have everyone in the class come up with an application for an action like the first 3 movements of chon-ji tul? I wonder what they'd come up with? Jye bjpritch@comcast.net wrote: Hi All, I realize I may be a novice to teaching compared to many of you, however I'be been watching the email on this with some interest because I teach the ITF forms. I was taught that Chun Ji is the first form taught to beginners, it's nothing but down blocks, in-to-out blocks, and punches. Is it possible to just take it at face value and not find hidden meaning. Many people who start martial arts have a difficult time blocking with the correct hand over the correct leg. Or blocking and punching up and down the dojang floor. Chun Ji teaches basic blocks, and turns in all four directions which is sometimes hard to do with good stances for beginners. I may be wrong but I always tell my beginners it's the stepping stone of future forms. It's where we learn to turn and block, and be aware of other directions. Because we always review older forms, I will turn it into a bunkai (or practical app) for my higher belts. I will have an attacker stand in all four directions, then on the command to start a person will begin the form and the four attackers will attack when the form moves intheir direction. It's amazing how it comes to life when someone is throwing a low front kick, or a middle punch at you as you do your form. This gets the higher belts to turn with a sense of urgency as they know an attack is coming. It also gets the attackers thinking of what they can attack with. My only guideline is the attack must be blockable with the standard move from the form. This seems to work well as a re-inforcing tool for us. I may be wrong in not teaching hidden meanig in the beginning forms, but I find my students are good to accept it as a learning step, and then apply to it at higher levels when they are seeking more knowledge. I don't want to overwhelm them on week one, but build them up to a solid student. Just my input on it - this and a dollar 25 will get you a cup of coffee at the local 7-11 BJ Pritchett _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 07:19:51 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Call for Nominations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Call for Nominations to the USAT Board of Directors Nominating and Governance Committee May 4, 2006 USA Taekwondo will accept nominations for the election of vacant positions on the Nominating and Governance Committee to the USAT Board of Directors pursuant to Section 9 on page 21 of the USAT Bylaws. Section 9.16 on page 25 of the USAT Bylaws outlines the selection process for these committee positions and the functions of the USAT Nominating and Governance Committee. Pursuant to Section 9 on page 21 of the USAT Bylaws, current vacant Nominating and Governance Committee positions are as follows: Ø USAT Bylaw Section 9.16(a)(2): one (1) individual who is independent as that term is defined in these Bylaws and who is selected by the Board of Directors. Who may be Nominated: An individual who is nominated must be a current USAT member and must meet the requirement for independence as defined in the USAT Bylaws, in its description of independent director in Section 7.7 on page 13 of the USAT Bylaws. Who may Nominate: Current USAT members may nominate themselves. Letters of recommendation in support of the nomination may also be included. How to Nominate: Click on and print a Nomination Form here (Nomination Form Section 9.16[a]2), fill out the Nomination Form, and send to USAT via mail including any letters of recommendation at the following address to be received (not postmarked) by the end of business on June 20, 2006: USA Taekwondo Attn: Board Elections 1 Olympic Plaza, Suite 104C Colorado Springs CO 80909 Election Process: The USAT Board of Directors will elect an independent individual for a position on the Nominating and Governance Committee from the pool of individuals nominated. Ø USAT Bylaw Section 9.16(a)(3): one (1) athlete as elected by the athlete members. This position will be filled through an internal election within the USAT Athletes' Advisory Council ("AAC"). To provide input, please contact the USAT AAC at usataac@usa-taekwondo.us. Ø USAT Bylaw Section 9.16(a)(4): one (1) coach or referee as elected by the coach and referee members. Note: This is one position and not two. The position will be held by either a coach or referee member. Who may be Nominated: An individual who is nominated must be a current USAT coach or referee member. Who may Nominate: Nominations are requested from current USAT members with the voting designation of coach or referee. How to Nominate: Click on and print a Nomination Form here (Nomination Form Section 9.16[a]4), fill out the Nomination Form, and send to USAT via mail at the following address to be received (not postmarked) by the end of business on June 20, 2006: USA Taekwondo Attn: Board Elections 1 Olympic Plaza, Suite 104C Colorado Springs CO 80909 Election Process: USAT will hold an election for the Coach or Referee Representative to the USAT Nominating and Governance Committee after June 20, 2006 by sending mail ballots to current USAT members with the voting designation of coach or referee. Ø USAT Bylaw Section 9.16(a)(5): one (1) grass roots representative as elected by USAT member clubs. Who may be Nominated: Any current USAT member may be nominated by any current USAT member including self-nominations. Who may Nominate: A nomination may be submitted by an individual who is a current USAT member. How to Nominate: Click on and print a Nomination Form here (Nomination Form Section 9.16[a]5), fill out the Nomination Form, and send to USAT via mail at the following address to be received (not postmarked) by the end of business on June 20, 2006: USA Taekwondo Attn: Board Elections 1 Olympic Plaza, Suite 104C Colorado Springs CO 80909 Election Process: USAT will hold an election for Grass Roots Representative to the USAT Nominating and Governance Committee after June 20, 2006 by sending mail ballots to current USAT member clubs. For questions regarding nominations, please contact elections@usa-taekwondo.us. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 07:20:46 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Coaching Seminar in Tennessee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net USAT Announces July 1 Coaching Seminar in Tennessee May 4, 2006 USA Taekwondo is partnering with one of its member schools, as well as one of the country's most knowledgeable referees, to offer a Level 1 and Associate Coach seminar prior to both the AAU Taekwondo Nationals (July 3-8), Knoxville, Tenn.), and the USAT Junior Olympics (July 6-9, Atlanta, Ga.). The seminar will take place July 1 at the U.S. Taekwondo Academy in Clinton, Tenn., under the direction of John Seiber. The scheduling of the seminar will help USAT athletes maximize their training and competition opportunities, while at the same time supporting USAT's affiliated organization, the AAU. The U.S. Taekwondo Academy is located at 160 Frank Diggs Lane, Clinton, Tenn. For more information, call 865-463-7103. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 10:38:28 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] pressure points To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael, I have no idea about what others do but when I teach a semiar I make sure to work with 99.9% of the people attending. >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >Has anyone noticed before that almost always when someone is giving a demonstration of a pressure point attack for the public or >whoever they are always demonstrating on one of their own students??? Why do you think they do that?? > >Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 10:54:58 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael, >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >I feel what your saying and again to everyone I don't doubt the stuff works...it is just that it has a very low level of success as >opposed to a very high level of not working....and in a real fight you will go to what causes the most for the least bit of danger to yourself.... >thats human nature and it will take over.... > Michael Tomlinson So what do you base your opinion on that it does not have a very high level of not working? Just your opinion? In my opinion I believe it works because I know from personal experience and from the feedback from people who have put their lives on the line and they and used techniques that I have taught them and they were alive to tell me it worked for them. They have used various levels of force from non-deadly to deadly and they have come back to talk about it. Like any other group of techniques if you do not practice them you will not be able to make use of them. If choose to believe pressure points have a low level of success, you will not practice them, and if you try to apply them in a real situation and they don't work for you is it because pressure points don't work? Or is it because you did not practice them to the degree where they became part of your skill set? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org > > >>From: "Rick Clark" >>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>To: >>Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers >>Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 20:51:22 -0400 >> >>Hi Michael, >> >> >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >> > >> >Ok using golf as an analogy...would you try to hit a bowling ball >> >with >>a golf club??? >> >>No you bowl the ball - you do what is appropriate for the situation. >> >> > That is basically what you are trying to do with the pressure >> > points >>and finger breaks....no offense but just because you >> >see a chart in a book over and over doesn't mean that you can take >> >that >>drawing and turn it >> >in to a devastating technique...again I feel like the realm of make >>believe is knocking on the door of reality but reality ain't >> >answering...I hear you ask I wonder why all this stuff is in all >> >these >>books...I got another >> >question...I wonder why we never see it ever used in real fights???? >>Hmmm >> >>I don't know about what you see and what you don't see but I do get >>reports back from people I teach. About 2 days ago I was in a Dr. >>office waiting for an appointment and one of my ex students >was there. >>I had not seen him for a number of years. We got talking and he was >>just back from Iraq, he thanked me for what I had taught him and that >>it had been very useful in a number of situations. He made use of >>pressure point in a war zone - anywhere from control to breaking the >>neck of a person who was trying to kill him. I have had police >>officers and correctional officers report back to me how >effective the >>techniques that I have taught them. I have had women telling me how >>someone had tried to rape them and they were able to perform >techniques >>that I had taught. I have had bouncers who have worked with me give >>similar reports. So you telling me that I am not in touch >with reality >>is something I should believe? >> >> >> >Do you really think if some big crazy lunkhead is trying to hurt you >>really bad that breaking one of his fingers or punching him in a >> >pressure point from a chart you saw in an old chinese book is gonna >>cause him to stop his attack and change his mind??? >> >>Yes, I do think a pressure point strike can drop a person in an >>instant, and in situations where the person is being non >compliant and >>trying to hurt me. I have done it, and students of mine have >done it. >>As to the finger break - I had a young lady break the finger of an >>attacker and it allowed her to escape and she was not assaulted. >> >> >>Rick Clark >>www.ao-denkou-kai.org >> > >> > >> >Michael Tomlinson >>_______________________________________________ >>The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >>The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard >>disclaimers apply >>http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 11:13:10 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Dan on spirituality Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Dan: If I follow what you wrote regarding Christianity and its nexus with martial arts then I feel comfortable telling you that although I appreciate your passion, your committment to God and religion and to martial arts this is totally clear. We cannot because we simply "want", to create relationships causality and inference. There exists absolutely no connection with martial arts and Christianity or spirituality whatever that is supposed to mean. Dan and others, it is so simple as to be painful. Martial arts a collection of fighting arts devised in the East as well as all over the world as every culture had a need for a fighting form. We as a collection of atheletes are no more spiritual as a rule than the local guy that goes bowling Friday night. Let's cut the crap please!!! Methaphorically...I am a father of two sons, I am also a school teacher as well as a body builder. My being a father doesn't make me a better body builder and the fact that i am divorced doesn't make me a worse martial artist. Connections exist where there are alliances in logic, nature and in fact. What martial art did Jesus practice? Moses? Buddha? Mohammed? How in the world can anyone claim such things as spiritual connection when no one can define what it is? Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:17:42 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Real fights Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael writes: > ...and in a real fight you will go to what > causes the most for the least bit of danger to yourself....thats human > nature and it will take over... Hello Michael. This is not the first time I have commented on fighting for real, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that instincts takes over. After practicing martial arts for more than 50 years, and having been in more fights than I care for, I can tell you that I NEVER remembered what I did in a fight. I am told by bystanders that I will use anything that is handy (including chairs or other useful items). Pain is hardly noticed (until after the deal is done), and it is amazing how much fight there is left in you (or your opponent) even when you have been significantly damaged. IMHO, to survive a fight has more to do with your "WILL" to survive than it has to do with any techniques you might have learned. To be sure, you will become a better fighter by practicing the things you might do in a fight, and that is why I teach forms... they are sport specific exercises that help you become just a little bit better than you would be without them. In fact, ANY exercise that improves your cardio, balance, timing, coordination etc. etc. will help Rudy --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 15:02:14 -0400 From: "Libu " To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Real fights Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Rudy I agree with you, in a real life situation your instincts take over. And how we respond can be influenced by the way we train. For e.g. repetition and redoing the same move week after week, our muscles and mind are so attuned to this, in a real life situation, our mind takes over and the body delivers. And i believe that the more we train, the more instinctive we become. -Libu On 5/6/06, Rudy Timmerman wrote: > > Michael writes: > > ...and in a real fight you will go to what > > causes the most for the least bit of danger to yourself....thats human > > nature and it will take over... > > IMHO, to survive a fight has more to do with your "WILL" to survive > than it has to do with any techniques you might have learned. To be > sure, you will become a better fighter by practicing the things you > might do in a fight, and that is why I teach forms... they are sport > specific exercises that help you become just a little bit better than > you would be without them. In fact, ANY exercise that improves your > cardio, balance, timing, coordination etc. etc. will help > Rudy > -- Libu --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "imakikr" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:16:56 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good point Rick, I agree! I teach not only the TKD, but I also teach some grappling, (wrestling and Brasilian jujits) and joint locks and throws. I also believe there is definately a place for joint locks, ie small circle jujits and pressure points. I had a couple of guys jump me onece who knew I was in martial arts. It was very unexpected, one grabbed me in a bear hug from behind, and one grabbed one of my legs in front like he was going to take me down with a single leg wrestling take down. I buried a thumb in the bear hug guy's radial nreve in his arm and he broke his grip and I peeled him off, I nailed the other guy on my leg in the infra orbital nerve under the nose and ripped his head back and he turned loose then I grabbed him by the hair, spun him around facing the other way with his back to me and burried one finger on each side in the nerves under his jaw keeping him between me and his buddy. Trust me he was howling and totally pain compliant. They had had more than their fill and tat was it. I'v also tained some police officers and they have had great success with it, so I guess you'd have a hard time convincing me that it doesn't work. The other option if some guy grabs me in a bear hug from behind, I'm going to isolate a finger, use the back of his own hand as a fulcrum bending the finger backwards until I break it. Then I'm gonig to whip it around giving him serious pain, or go the the next finger and bust it and so on. Keep in mind you have to feel what your opponent is doing and so as soon as he turns loose to punch me, I'm going to spin around keeping his finger as it locks his finger and wrist and punch him in the throat with the other hand or throw an elbow to the face, or blow a knee with a side-kick or etc based on what is required. I wrestled in college division one, the reason I say that is that they have rules against joint locks because they can cause serious injury, potentially end the match and sideline an athlete for the season and or career. I have had wrestlers I coached dislocate a finger and come off the mat with thier face grimacing in pain with a finger sticking out at 90degrees. We reset the finger , and taped it to the other fingers and sent him back out. This was a tough ranch kid and one of the top in the state. I've been in the college wrestling room where we basically took pride in abusing each other for 3 to 4 hours a day and I've seen guys yell in pain when it comes to joint dislocations, and no; they don't just get ticked off and keep going when something is busted or dislocated and pointing the wrong way. If you really believe that you can keep fighting like nothing happened, let your instructor or one of your students, bust your wrist or a finger or two and then try to grab or control them with that hand, or try to keep punching with it or blocking kicks and punches with it. I'd like to see it. Remember many times the locks are used to take someone to a certain position or set them up for something else that will finish the fight. If you don't think joint locks work or disable you haven't watched many of the reality fights, like the UFC, the Pride fights & etc. When they get in an armlock an get their arm tweeked they are done. And these are tough guys. I know a finger is not the same as maybe an elbow or shoulder, but it still messes up the hand, their ability to grab and punch and hurts like heck. You have to realize that going for the fingers or pressure points only applies to certain situations just like any of the other techniques you teach. You probably don't teach your students to start every sparring match with a running jump side kick, but you probably teach run jump sidekicks in your school. If a person doesn't think joint locks work, they haven't been taught those techniques very well. Good luck in taining, Sean Kay ---- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Clark" To: Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers > Michael, > >>From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >>I feel what your saying and again to everyone I don't doubt the stuff > works...it is just that it has a very low level of success as >>opposed to a very high level of not working....and in a real fight you > will go to what causes the most for the least bit of danger to > yourself.... >>thats human nature and it will take over.... >> Michael Tomlinson > > So what do you base your opinion on that it does not have a very high > level of not working? Just your opinion? In my opinion I believe it > works because I know from personal experience and from the feedback from > people who have put their lives on the line and they and used techniques > that I have taught them and they were alive to tell me it worked for > them. They have used various levels of force from non-deadly to deadly > and they have come back to talk about it. > > Like any other group of techniques if you do not practice them you will > not be able to make use of them. If choose to believe pressure points > have a low level of success, you will not practice them, and if you try > to apply them in a real situation and they don't work for you is it > because pressure points don't work? Or is it because you did not > practice them to the degree where they became part of your skill set? > > Rick Clark > www.ao-denkou-kai.org > >> >> >>>From: "Rick Clark" >>>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>>To: >>>Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers >>>Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 20:51:22 -0400 >>> >>>Hi Michael, >>> >>> >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >>> > >>> >Ok using golf as an analogy...would you try to hit a bowling ball >>> >with >>>a golf club??? >>> >>>No you bowl the ball - you do what is appropriate for the situation. >>> >>> > That is basically what you are trying to do with the pressure >>> > points >>>and finger breaks....no offense but just because you >>> >see a chart in a book over and over doesn't mean that you can take >>> >that >>>drawing and turn it >>> >in to a devastating technique...again I feel like the realm of make >>>believe is knocking on the door of reality but reality ain't >>> >answering...I hear you ask I wonder why all this stuff is in all >>> >these >>>books...I got another >>> >question...I wonder why we never see it ever used in real fights???? >>>Hmmm >>> >>>I don't know about what you see and what you don't see but I do get >>>reports back from people I teach. About 2 days ago I was in a Dr. >>>office waiting for an appointment and one of my ex students >>was there. >>>I had not seen him for a number of years. We got talking and he was >>>just back from Iraq, he thanked me for what I had taught him and that >>>it had been very useful in a number of situations. He made use of >>>pressure point in a war zone - anywhere from control to breaking the >>>neck of a person who was trying to kill him. I have had police >>>officers and correctional officers report back to me how >>effective the >>>techniques that I have taught them. I have had women telling me how >>>someone had tried to rape them and they were able to perform >>techniques >>>that I had taught. I have had bouncers who have worked with me give >>>similar reports. So you telling me that I am not in touch >>with reality >>>is something I should believe? >>> >>> >>> >Do you really think if some big crazy lunkhead is trying to hurt you >>>really bad that breaking one of his fingers or punching him in a >>> >pressure point from a chart you saw in an old chinese book is gonna >>>cause him to stop his attack and change his mind??? >>> >>>Yes, I do think a pressure point strike can drop a person in an >>>instant, and in situations where the person is being non >>compliant and >>>trying to hurt me. I have done it, and students of mine have >>done it. >>>As to the finger break - I had a young lady break the finger of an >>>attacker and it allowed her to escape and she was not assaulted. >>> >>> >>>Rick Clark >>>www.ao-denkou-kai.org >>> > >>> > >>> >Michael Tomlinson >>>_______________________________________________ >>>The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >>>The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >>>Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard >>>disclaimers apply >>>http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >>_______________________________________________ >>The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >>The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >>Standard disclaimers apply >>http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] pressure points Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 21:26:48 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was a little unclear...what I meant was how you see guys like Dillman knock out his own students and I've seen older chinese artists knock out and do tricks on their students a lot but not on others...what I was throwing out there..not very successfully I might add...is that there is a lot of power of suggestion going on during these tricks...that's all.. Michael Tomlinson >From: "Rick Clark" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] pressure points >Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 10:38:28 -0400 > >Michael, > >I have no idea about what others do but when I teach a semiar I make >sure to work with 99.9% of the people attending. > > >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] > >Has anyone noticed before that almost always when someone is giving a >demonstration of a pressure point attack for the public or > >whoever they are always demonstrating on one of their own students??? >Why do you think they do that?? > > > >Michael Tomlinson >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "imakikr" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] pressure points Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:28:16 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The main reason they demonstrate on one of their own students is liability. Pull someone out of the crowd today and nail them with a self defense move and they might see you on the loosing end of a court case. The other reason , you don't know what kind of physical limitations that stranger has, they may be recovering from a auto accident with a bad back or what ever and what you do to them that normally wouldn't be a big deal in long term effect might injure them. Despite that being said, I try to use as many from the group as I can instead of my own students, so they feel what it is like, but maybe moderated a little so as not to really hurt them, but there is no doubt when we are finished that it is not some hocus pocus crap. If you do demonstrations make sure the people you use are aware of what you are going to do to them so they can opt out if it would bother them. You might be safer from a liability stand point using your own students though. Sean Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Clark" To: Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 7:38 AM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] pressure points > Michael, > > I have no idea about what others do but when I teach a semiar I make > sure to work with 99.9% of the people attending. > >>From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >>Has anyone noticed before that almost always when someone is giving a > demonstration of a pressure point attack for the public or >>whoever they are always demonstrating on one of their own students??? > Why do you think they do that?? >> >>Michael Tomlinson > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Hindley" To: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 16:30:21 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Forms interpretations and the applicabillity of Tae Kwon Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye wrote: >"I think what you've stumbled on is reaching that ultimate truth that is >for only you. When I started sparring other styles they had >different >approaches hidden deceptive moves, etc and for a minute I was getting tore >down. but as I began to start training more >seriously and this was TKD, I >started kicking a$$. I had other training under my belt but I was just >trying to use the TKD stuff. I >feel that TKD can be quite effective if >taught as a combat art instead of how it is today. The mindset of a person >can make anything >lethal! you may take TKD and do sport fighting and the >man next to you could be taking TKD using it to straight kill people. It's >all >in what you want from it." Greg says: I have to say IMHO Jye is correct. I train in Chung Do Kwan TKD. I have had three teachers in this art. GM James Garrison who's teacher is Sang Cook Kim Master Jeff. Hindley and now Ji Young Song. Each has taught the art in a self defense oriented manner with tradition respect and seriousness. I have trained in this manner for 20 plus years and even though the multitudes of olympic sparring style schools have overshadowed the real art of TKD that is taught by hardcore traditionalists some of us practice for life or death situations only. TKD is very lethal. You decide how you will train and for what means. I also study Hapkido and Judo and my son has givien me some insights into wrestling and some other kinds mat work. In the way that fighting has evolved you must cross train to be well rounded. Could one use TKD only for self defense...that depends on how you have trained and with whom you have trained. It comes down to desire and heart. Then Mr. Burdick wrote: >" Other reasons to not do tkd, aside from techniques that are not terribly >applicable: >1. Arthritis in hips >2. Damage to lower back >3. Knees trashed from air kicks" Greg says: My techniques are powerfully applicable. I have had major surgery on my lower back and still kick with the best, jump, spin and breakfall. No arthritis in the hips yet No problem with the knees ever. All after 25 years, so each individual is different and how thy apply their art and train as well. No art is better..... it is all the individual person that makes the art what it is and what it is not. Greg Hindley --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest