Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 03:00:23 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #205 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re. secrets (Jye nigma) 2. RE: Broken Fingers (michael tomlinson) 3. Re: Re: Master Dan on spirituality (Jye nigma) 4. RE: Real fights (michael tomlinson) 5. Re: Re: Forms interpretations and the applicabillity of Tae Kwon Do (Jye nigma) 6. RE: pressure points (Jye nigma) 7. RE: Real fights (Jye nigma) 8. Re: Broken Fingers (michael tomlinson) 9. Forms and "Deep Meaning" (Richard Tomlinson) 10. joint locks & pressure pts. (Don Kirsch) 11. Master Dan on Spirtuality (Master Chuck Martin) 12. video clip: tkd vs muay thai (Jye nigma) 13. RE: pressure points (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:40:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re. secrets To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net we have to face it. man today is boastful and full of pride. Arrogant and looks to science as if it has the answers to all questions. There are still things that today's science can't explain that people of ancient times have done. The mapping of stars and the galaxy inside of a cave was done thousands of years ago (if not more) and we couldn't confirm it until we had that popular telescope (the real big one). how about in the bible it is recorded that the world is round? even some of the structures of rome have modern day architects baffled. ok ok...I know you're wondering what structures? try the temple Artemis. but anyhow there are things humans have done and can do but their minds are occupied with other things and so the majority can't do it. For instance something as simple as healing oneself naturally is something you'd think everyone could or should be able to do, but not everyone can. When spoken of some people turn their noses up and say only medicine (as in western medicine) can heal and cure things. My grandfather as a good example told me about how cats could "charm" other animals which is basically staring at them putting them in a hypnotic like state. and so naturally as a youngster I didn't believe it until I tried it myself. Even now as an adult I do it to cats and dogs (especially dogs to mess with them...lol). This sounds silly right? how could a simple look mean anything? have you ever been told not to look certain animals directly in the face (eyes) because it is a sign of aggression? prime example gorillas. look at the research done on them and how they communicate. then do the simple thing and look at a dog directly in its eyes without blinking and watch the reaction(s) you get. Some will look away, some will cowar down and some will response with vicious barks. another thing my grandfather would do would be he'd go outside, take a deep breath and say it's gonna rain. Now as a child I'd be like yeah right...because there wouldn't be any clouds in sight, the sun would be shinning bright, etc...and sure enough, just as he said it it would rain and storm. And so I went from skeptic to disciple REAL QUICK...lol. I'd ask him about those things and other things and he'd tell me and now...I can do the same things. I can charm animals, tell when it's gonna storm rain, etc because I emptied my cup and let years of experience guide me. now I wouldn't say those were secrets but I wouldn't fault someone else for saying they were. So in a nutshell, yes our modern day science has allowed us to make new discoveries in certain matters and it has only confirmed what was at one point in time common knowledge amongst the ancients. Jye Bob Banham wrote: The DD has taken an interesting turn of late. Much debate over secrets within martial arts and authenticity of claimed abilities. Before I travelled in my early 30s I too believed that nothing less than a good hard kick or punch would stop an assailant/bad guy. After having seen so called "psychic surgery" in The Philippines, being told by an 80 year old Indian 'saint' that 'ki breathing' is a yogic technique that actually pre-dates any known Korean martial arts by at least 2000 years and watching an Aboriginal medicine man 'hypnotise' from a distance a wild animal, I have had cause to re-think my pre-conceptions and accept that just because I have no knowledge of something or it doesn't fit within my existing world view, doesn't prove it doesn't or cannot exist! Along similar lines, until I qualified and worked as an acupuncturist I believed the best thing for a headache was an analgesic. Some people still do. They are limiting their understanding of the world and I see no possible benefit in that. Bob _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 22:00:10 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> I'm basing my opinions on nothing other than my own experiences....played football for 10 years..never missed a game, only missed one practice in seven years, broke six of my fingers over that time span..bad breaks.... my 3rd dan Hapkido belt test with Master Whalen..broke two toes and tore a tendon in my foot during the first half hour of the test....finished the test three hours later..With a newly aqquired broken finger compliments of Master Mike McCarty.....never took a break..went to the ER two days later for xrays.... my fourth dan Hapkido belt test with Master Rick Nabors...tore my bicep muscle loose from the tendon on the 6th technique I did during that test..ie. about 20 minutes into the test..never took a break...finished the test in two and a half more hours..went to the ER the next morning..I am no one special and I'm not telling you this to say I'm a badass or anything,, I'm not.....I'm just trying to let you know that a broken finger is not gonna stop someone from trying to really hurt you..period.... me and many others are talking about this stuff because it HAS happened to us...not what someone told me... while I was coaching High School wrestling during one practice I had a high school sophmore at 129 pounds compound fracture one of his fingers and NEVER even stopped the drill we were running...he only stopped after the whistle and then came and showed us his hand...it made me get the shivers when I saw it...he was calm and waited till we called his parents to come pick him up....he never even got a little queezy about it..his voice didn't even break up or anything, calm as a cucumber..A 129 POUND 15 YEAR OLD BOY... same year during a wrestling tournament I witnessed a wrestler from a nearby school severly dislocate his shoulder with around 15 seconds left to go in the final match of our tournament...he was ahead by two points...they took a 30 second break while his dad told the coach he had his permission to let his son finish the match...his arm was hanging like a limp rag and where the shoulder socket is...there was nothing there but a big depression....he held on with one arm as he had top position...finished the match and then climbed into the ambulance as we gave him a standing ovation.... ..many people underestimate what it takes to stop someone with REAL determination, hey if you believe that they work good for you and I wish you all the best...but around the people I work out and train with...well they ain't gonna lay down when someone bends their finger or tries to punch one of their Ki channels...I wish they would..it would make practice a whole lot easier!! What I believe in more than anything is the effect personal willpower and a never say quit mentality will have on someone...that is where I believe the real magic comes from... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Rick Clark" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers >Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 10:54:58 -0400 > >Michael, > > >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] > >I feel what your saying and again to everyone I don't doubt the stuff >works...it is just that it has a very low level of success as > >opposed to a very high level of not working....and in a real fight you >will go to what causes the most for the least bit of danger to >yourself.... > >thats human nature and it will take over.... > > Michael Tomlinson > >So what do you base your opinion on that it does not have a very high >level of not working? Just your opinion? In my opinion I believe it >works because I know from personal experience and from the feedback from >people who have put their lives on the line and they and used techniques >that I have taught them and they were alive to tell me it worked for >them. They have used various levels of force from non-deadly to deadly >and they have come back to talk about it. > >Like any other group of techniques if you do not practice them you will >not be able to make use of them. If choose to believe pressure points >have a low level of success, you will not practice them, and if you try >to apply them in a real situation and they don't work for you is it >because pressure points don't work? Or is it because you did not >practice them to the degree where they became part of your skill set? > >Rick Clark >www.ao-denkou-kai.org > > > > > > >>From: "Rick Clark" > >>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >>To: > >>Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers > >>Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 20:51:22 -0400 > >> > >>Hi Michael, > >> > >> >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] > >> > > >> >Ok using golf as an analogy...would you try to hit a bowling ball > >> >with > >>a golf club??? > >> > >>No you bowl the ball - you do what is appropriate for the situation. > >> > >> > That is basically what you are trying to do with the pressure > >> > points > >>and finger breaks....no offense but just because you > >> >see a chart in a book over and over doesn't mean that you can take > >> >that > >>drawing and turn it > >> >in to a devastating technique...again I feel like the realm of make > >>believe is knocking on the door of reality but reality ain't > >> >answering...I hear you ask I wonder why all this stuff is in all > >> >these > >>books...I got another > >> >question...I wonder why we never see it ever used in real fights???? > >>Hmmm > >> > >>I don't know about what you see and what you don't see but I do get > >>reports back from people I teach. About 2 days ago I was in a Dr. > >>office waiting for an appointment and one of my ex students > >was there. > >>I had not seen him for a number of years. We got talking and he was > >>just back from Iraq, he thanked me for what I had taught him and that > >>it had been very useful in a number of situations. He made use of > >>pressure point in a war zone - anywhere from control to breaking the > >>neck of a person who was trying to kill him. I have had police > >>officers and correctional officers report back to me how > >effective the > >>techniques that I have taught them. I have had women telling me how > >>someone had tried to rape them and they were able to perform > >techniques > >>that I had taught. I have had bouncers who have worked with me give > >>similar reports. So you telling me that I am not in touch > >with reality > >>is something I should believe? > >> > >> > >> >Do you really think if some big crazy lunkhead is trying to hurt you > >>really bad that breaking one of his fingers or punching him in a > >> >pressure point from a chart you saw in an old chinese book is gonna > >>cause him to stop his attack and change his mind??? > >> > >>Yes, I do think a pressure point strike can drop a person in an > >>instant, and in situations where the person is being non > >compliant and > >>trying to hurt me. I have done it, and students of mine have > >done it. > >>As to the finger break - I had a young lady break the finger of an > >>attacker and it allowed her to escape and she was not assaulted. > >> > >> > >>Rick Clark > >>www.ao-denkou-kai.org > >> > > >> > > >> >Michael Tomlinson > >>_______________________________________________ > >>The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >>The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >>Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard > >>disclaimers apply > >>http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 15:01:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Dan on spirituality To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Not sure why this point is being missed. If we look in biblical times. you had your followers of God and followers of other gods. When God brought judgement on some nations, he commanded his people to kill the nation of those who were disobedient. We saw that several times throughout the bible. So that plain as day shows a deep spiritual connection in combat. Then we can move on to people who invoked spirits of what ever they believe to give them the edge in battle. You have people who fought for their gods, you had people who believed they represented God on earth and commanded military campaigns because it was their god's will. How much connection do you need? From the native americans all the way to the samurai, there is a connection to spiritualism and life. ok so if war is a part of life, then why would it seem impractical for a spiritual connection to war or martial arts? Now if you're talking about people thinking by doing martial arts they will become spiritually enligtened and therefore become better people then I agree with you. Doing martial arts doesn't mean you're gonna be a better or righteous person. But the martial arts do indeed have a deep spiritual connection. in some cases that connection is nothing more then superstition, and in some cases the people become possessed, so it is there and alive. now as far as martial arts practiced by moses and jesus...lol. moses was trained in the egyptian military combat and later a more powerful type of training by God. Jesus trained in whatever "martial art" created by God...I heard it is unbeatable. ;o) jye tkd@aol.com wrote: Master Dan: If I follow what you wrote regarding Christianity and its nexus with martial arts then I feel comfortable telling you that although I appreciate your passion, your committment to God and religion and to martial arts this is totally clear. We cannot because we simply "want", to create relationships causality and inference. There exists absolutely no connection with martial arts and Christianity or spirituality whatever that is supposed to mean. Dan and others, it is so simple as to be painful. Martial arts a collection of fighting arts devised in the East as well as all over the world as every culture had a need for a fighting form. We as a collection of atheletes are no more spiritual as a rule than the local guy that goes bowling Friday night. Let's cut the crap please!!! Methaphorically...I am a father of two sons, I am also a school teacher as well as a body builder. My being a father doesn't make me a better body builder and the fact that i am divorced doesn't make me a worse martial artist. Connections exist where there are alliances in logic, nature and in fact. What martial art did Jesus practice? Moses? Buddha? Mohammed? How in the world can anyone claim such things as spiritual connection when no one can define what it is? Sid Rubinfeld _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Real fights Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 22:26:05 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy, That is exactly the point I so inadequately tried to make...thank you sir....unfortunately I too have been drug around the block a few times (that's what I blame for my lack of good looks!) and what you say is very true...once a fight starts it is all instinct from then on and like you say even after it is over you are so amped up that you truly have to stop and take inventory of where the blood is and what hurts or what is numb...crazy but true, I had to chuckle out loud when I read the part of you grabbing anything around you and using it. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about..it is amazing how quick you will grab a chair...it just feels good between you and the danger, and it's not a plan or thought....once I grabbed a glass picture frame off of a living room wall and used that to keep this idiot from stabbing me at a party I shouldn't of been at.....later when we got to safety my buddy Randy says to me..."I'm glad you hit him with that picture frame",, and I didn't remember it until he said that.. and again I was not knocking anyones techniques I am just saying don't underestimate the ferocity and tenacity of people...it is real and scary...you might have to do a lot more than break a finger or punch a pressure point.. and I also agree that any training you do to develop cardio, timing and balance will help you out tremendously...that is also the BEST reason I have ever heard anyone give for practicing forms... I hear these esoteric reasons for forms but that was a good ole down to earth practical life reason.. Michael Tomlinson >From: Rudy Timmerman >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Real fights >Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:17:42 -0400 > >Michael writes: >>...and in a real fight you will go to what >>causes the most for the least bit of danger to yourself....thats human >>nature and it will take over... > >Hello Michael. This is not the first time I have commented on fighting >for real, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that instincts takes over. >After practicing martial arts for more than 50 years, and having been in >more fights than I care for, I can tell you that I NEVER remembered what I >did in a fight. I am told by bystanders that I will use anything that is >handy (including chairs or other useful items). Pain is hardly noticed >(until after the deal is done), and it is amazing how much fight there is >left in you (or your opponent) even when you have been significantly >damaged. > >IMHO, to survive a fight has more to do with your "WILL" to survive than >it has to do with any techniques you might have learned. To be sure, you >will become a better fighter by practicing the things you might do in a >fight, and that is why I teach forms... they are sport specific exercises >that help you become just a little bit better than you would be without >them. In fact, ANY exercise that improves your cardio, balance, timing, >coordination etc. etc. will help >Rudy >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 16:58:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Forms interpretations and the applicabillity of Tae Kwon Do To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hindley wrote: In the way that fighting has evolved you must cross train to be well rounded. Could one use TKD only for self defense...that depends on how you have trained and with whom you have trained.It comes down to desire and heart. There are two approaches....cross train or spar people from different martial art backgrounds. It's all about experience recognizing other people's approaches and "tricks" if you will. You can stay with TKD spar different arts and still be able to kick major booty. It's really a mentality thing. It's like if I have a firecracker and I show you guys the loud sound and cool lights it makes when it explodes, and then someone takes a similar firecracker and dips it in rubber cement and covers it with buckshot and lights it and throws it in the midst of a crowd and show us the loud sound cool lights and dead folks when it explodes...lol. mentality. Then Mr. Burdick wrote: >" Other reasons to not do tkd, aside from techniques that are not terribly >applicable: >1. Arthritis in hips >2. Damage to lower back >3. Knees trashed from air kicks" Mr. Burdick you have to also consider the life you've lived completely. You could be suffering those things from wild teenage years...lol. The fact that the body takes abuse for years upon years before it breaks down can make it seem like those things occured specifically from TKD...but if in your young years you did stuff like jumped off of rooftops, lifted things without bending your knees, and too much hula hoops, those could be the source of the problems too...lol. Jye --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 17:01:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] pressure points To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net well the real "trick" in my opinion is when people do those pressure point deals with pre-arranged movements. How about keeping it real, spar with someone and see if you can apply the pressure point material. Jye ael tomlinson wrote: I was a little unclear...what I meant was how you see guys like Dillman knock out his own students and I've seen older chinese artists knock out and do tricks on their students a lot but not on others...what I was throwing out there..not very successfully I might add...is that there is a lot of power of suggestion going on during these tricks...that's all.. Michael Tomlinson --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 17:08:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Real fights To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is funny it reminds me of a talk my father and I had once. We were talking about back in the day when he used to fight in a club (that's what the older people call them I supposed, today I'd call them a gang). The rule of thumb was (as he told it to me) spanish people were known to cut you, I can't remember what the whites were known for, and then I laughed and said man that's got stereotype written all over it...so then I asked well what did blacks use...lol. he said anything they could get their hands on...lol. Now what was funny is that I grew up around alot of latinos, asians, jamaicans, and sure enough, my latino friends would be quick you cut you up, and I'd use anything that wasn't nailed to the floor to rip you out the frame...loll I started thinking about all my old fights and sure 'nuff, my old man might know what he's talking about...lol. I remember opening someone's head with a pair of plyers. Jye michael tomlinson wrote: I had to chuckle out loud when I read the part of you grabbing anything around you and using it. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about..it is amazing how quick you will grab a chair... --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 00:08:59 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sean writes: I know a finger is not the same as maybe an elbow or shoulder....>> My point exactly... Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 20:30:43 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Forms and "Deep Meaning" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The more we study, train, the more we become one with our bodies, mind and spirit. One can not achieve this wirh a three day class attendance a week...... As far as forms goes, well, the more one practices, they do evolve.... nothing like a secret meaning, just in tune with one's self and one's reality..... and Feeling the world around us.... like practitoners did thousands of years ago. sandy --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 19:40:08 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] joint locks & pressure pts. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wanted to briefly give my opinion on the use of joint locks and pressure points in fighting and combat. In regards to joint locks much of what is taught in contemporary HapKiDo and HapKiDo related arts are joint locks used for submission or pain compliance. This might be viewed as joint locks without taking them to their maximum applications. The common arm over arm bar which is usually taught as one of the first joint locks is really not meant to make a person tap out. Its real intent is to break the arm and/or dislocate the elbow. These are really combat oriented techniques meant to quickly take an opponent out of action. At least that's how I've been taught. There are many applications where joint lock and pressure point combinations can be used to help subdue and persuade an unwilling person. Pressing down on a point inside the clavicle while applying a wrist lock is an effective technique used to make a person sit their butt in a seat. As for pressure point strikes there two that come to mind that are pretty well time tested and proven. Striking the point corresponding to Stomach 9, on the neck/throat can cause what is know as carotid sinus reflex. Basically, striking the carotid sinus can cause temporary loss of consciousness by causing the brain to lower the blood pressure in response to a signal being sent that the blood pressure is increasing. Striking Stomach 5, on the jaw/cheek area can also cause a KO. The common boxer's "glass jaw". Will joint locks and pressure points work in every case? No! Are the techniques meant for every possible fighting situation? No, but they can be an effective tool to have in your tool box. IMHO. Regards, Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 18:00:34 -0800 From: Master Chuck Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan on Spirtuality Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Dan on Spirtuality and Sid- Master Dan I whole heartedly agree with your statements concerning martial arts, and spirtuality. I guess to keep it simple, martial arts does have a connection to religion for anyone that really knows or has expericnce in the true philosophies and meanings of martial arts. I have personally experienced martial arts well over 30 years and I can tell you that to those that live martial arts vs. those that just practice it, have no real true understanding about what you are speaking of. Yet in time as they grow and perservere they will come to understand the deeper understanding that martial arts was given to us for the purpose of growth, spiritually, physically and mentally. In order for this to happen one must have a connection to religion/God. In my perspective my connection is with God who sent us his Son, Jesus to die on the Cross of Calvary to save mankind from its sin. For Jesus to do this it required a true sacrifice to mankind. It required, in the true sence of the meaning, the greatest of all perserverance. My friends, martial arts is not just about figthting, or self defense. If you take martial arts for only the purpose of fighting, then you should not ever be promoted to black belt, because the spiritual worthiness is not there. This does not mean the person can not ever be worthy , it just means the person if already a blackbelt needs to grow before moving upward.. Now the conflict begins---- which religion is the correct one to study and revolve around martial arts. Not bashing, just loving every human being, I chose God because I firmly believe God is the only one and that he sent us martial arts from the very beginning because he knew we needed special training in some cases to be real leaders for Christ. I must be the salt of the earth, biblically speaking, and say that everything people do in their lives, good or bad either represents God or satan. Believe it or not God is the owner of everything, every person, every tree and cloud. Mankind was made for the purpose of worshiping God and hence he gave us martial arts to use as a wonderful tool to learn with. Christians I would suggest you get on board ship and join Christian martial arts organizations spirtually and financially because remember what you do either supports God or satan. So when you spend for martial arts where is your funds going? Are you for sure? Good job Master Dan for standing up and speaking the truth concerning spirtuality and martial arts. Sid, I'm sorry, but there really is more to learn concerning martial arts, regardless of whether you are a teacher or not. I wish everyone well, and God bless you all, but saying God has not part of martial arts is not a true statement. Sorry but obviously you have much to learn. _God bless and keep you all_. The World Christian Taekwondo Federation is open to those people who are willing to follow the Christian philosophy of life in martial arts. www.wctf.net Chuck Martin --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 20:54:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: tkd vs muay thai Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC-bGwYjjlQ&search=push%20hands --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] pressure points Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 04:04:01 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sounds right to me...if you can slap it on lots of different people that way then I am a believer...just haven't ever seen it happen that way... Michael Tomlinson >From: Jye nigma >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] pressure points >Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 17:01:51 -0700 (PDT) > >well the real "trick" in my opinion is when people do those pressure point >deals with pre-arranged movements. How about keeping it real, spar with >someone and see if you can apply the pressure point material. > > Jye > > >ael tomlinson wrote: > I was a little unclear...what I meant was how you see guys like Dillman >knock out his own students and I've seen older chinese artists knock out >and >do tricks on their students a lot but not on others...what I was throwing >out there..not very successfully I might add...is that there is a lot of >power of suggestion going on during these tricks...that's all.. > >Michael Tomlinson > >--------------------------------- >New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save >big. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest