Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 02:59:31 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #209 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Not showing pain (Ray) 2. Voices (JR West) 3. RE: Broken Fingers (Rick Clark) 4. RE: Not showing pain (Rick Clark) 5. Hidden meanings in forms, to brian wooderd (Wes Heaps) 6. Testing and breaking stuff (Brian Beach) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 19:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Not showing pain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I am shocked at your response - someone is hurt in the dochang / dojo > and you think they should not pass the test because they reacted to pain? We will all react to pain in some fashion. However showing pain to your opponent is not a good idea. > There was a serious lack of control on the part of the opponent > to cause injury. Or the other guy should have blocked it. However in this case there was no injury. The guy was kicked in the gut. Nothing more. He was at work the next day, didn't go to see a Doctor, etc, etc. > If that student would have continued what kind of > control do you think they would have? How well do you think they could > defend themselves against an attack when they are double over in pain? Ahhh... You hit upon the real point. Part of our training should be to not show pain. Been knocked down? Sure. Been hurt? Sure. Broken bones? Sure. Been kicked in the nuts and couldn't function? Sure. Shown pain? After the fact, yes. During the conflict, never. A real bad idea for those that want to survive. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "JR West" To: Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 21:56:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Voices Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "when something happens I have this voice in my head"...........Michael Tomlinson That's just your dog telling you to kill the neighbors again....J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 23:07:23 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Broken Fingers To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Michael, >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >Rick, >I hear you bro...to me it's all relative..if I can push myself harder and further than before then I feel good...even it it does mean >hurting myself sometimes...but I am sure it isn't for everyone...when something happens I have this voice in my head that tells my body to >obey me and then it tells my mind to focus on something other than the pain and I put myself on autopilot...Am I crazy or do other people >on here do this???? > > >Michael Tomlinson I am 57 years old, and have been at the arts for over 44 years. Believe me I have done some crazy things in the martial arts, crazy breaking techniques, practicing with injuries, keep standing and fighting after being kicked in the groin and other areas, sparing out in the snow with bare feet and light dobok in Korea, the list goes on. I have no idea how many times my ribs have been cracked, my nose probably 8 times, broken hand, broken foot, broken knuckles, torn ACL, implanted defibrillator, and so many sprains, jammed toes, fingers, and bruises I can't even count. We all get injured in the martial arts - I was forced to enter a sparing competition prior to testing for my 2nd dan in front of Duk Son Son, spraining my ankle VERY bad, and then when I did a stop at about half power in Chulgi 1 and 2 - failed because the stomp was not hard enough even with a wrapped foot and an injury he knew I had sustained in sparing. At that point in time things got a bit more clear in my mind - and I promised myself I would NEVER - NEVER - NEVER - put a student of mine through that type of behavior. There are three types of people in this world: 1) There are those who make a mistake and keep making the same mistake over and over again. 2) Those who make a mistake and don't make the mistake again. 3) Those who see the mistakes of others and do not make that same mistake. Most of the time I am a #1, but on occasion a #2, and almost never a #3. Wish I could be more like the #3 . . . . If someone wants to engage in battering each other full force then take up kick boxing or enter the UFC. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 23:34:56 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not showing pain To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, >From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] >> I am shocked at your response - someone is hurt in the dochang / dojo and you think they should not pass the test because they >reacted to pain? > >We will all react to pain in some fashion. However showing pain to your opponent is not a good idea. You are going to defend this when some 13 year old kid is kicked and knocked to the ground in pain and his parents are sitting on the side watching and you tell them to continue? Even in sports like football when there is an injury the game is stopped and the injury is attended to by someone with medical knowledge. > >> There was a serious lack of control on the part of the opponent to cause injury. > >Or the other guy should have blocked it. However in this case there was no injury. The guy was kicked in the gut. Nothing >more. He was at work the next day, didn't go to see a Doctor, etc, etc. BUT - what if the spleen or liver were injured and they had internal bleeding? "What if" it were a serious injury that the person received an they were told to continue. On one occasion I was just getting over Mono and being the fool I was tested and spared, I was told no contact. I was kicked 3 times HARD by my opponent as I was pulling my punches and kicks. After the third time I hit him once and knocked him out. After he asked me why I hit him so hard - my response. It was to be no contact, you kicked me HARD 3 times, so I played by your rules. I then told him I was recovering from Mono and if I would have received a hard blow to my spleen (I think it's the spleen) it was enlarged and would be easy to burst and cause me serious injury. I was stupid to test and put myself in such a situation - he was not so bright hitting me 3 times hard when it was to be no contact. But I ended up playing by his rules and looking back at the incident the bad thing is that I could have seriously hurt him - and that would have been real stupid on my part. But I think I have learned from that experience. > >> If that student would have continued what kind of control do you think they would have? How well do you think they >> could defend themselves against an attack when they are double over in pain? > >Ahhh... You hit upon the real point. Part of our training should be to not show pain. So you never tap out? That's stopping for pain or showing pain. Do your students tap out? Would you fail a person that taps out in a sparing match? Should a person continue the pressure on a joint till it breaks and then expect them to continue sparing? Choke them out and continue to hit them or kick them. What's the difference between being on the ground in pain due to the lack of control of your opponent or your inability to block a technique. When a person get's a good joint lock or choke on you, were you able to avoid the technique? No, but you still tap out before your are injured - at least I hope you do. >Been knocked down? Sure. Been hurt? Sure. Broken bones? Sure. Been kicked in the nuts and couldn't function? Sure. >Shown pain? After the fact, yes. During the conflict, never. A real bad idea for those that want to survive. Conflict is one thing - sparing or testing is testing is another. We can't confuse the dochang / dojo with the street, if we do what makes us a "Do" rather than some fight club? I think for the first time since I have know you Ray we have a serious difference of opinion. >Ray Terry Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 21:19:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Heaps To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hidden meanings in forms, to brian wooderd Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you havent been taught a form with a shin block in it, maybe you should switch to a martial art that has them. LOL sorry just picking. Maybe the forms you know have them, but you're instructor or you, don't relize they are there. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Brian Beach Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 00:55:36 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing and breaking stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It is inevitable that someone breaks something at our dan tests - "not a test till someone gets broke" I had the lucky distinction at my 1st dan of being the guy - separating my AC joint in the first five minutes. Finishing the test was the easy part - learning to wipe with my "off hand" was the hard part. :) --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest