Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:41:18 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #220 - 20 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Boot camp training (Stovall, Craig) 2. RE: Kick # 25 (michael tomlinson) 3. RE: wristlocks (J R Hilland) 4. RE: RE: wristlocks (michael tomlinson) 5. RE: RE: wristlocks (Joseph Cheavens) 6. Wrist Locks on Big Guys (Timmy Sr. Kearney) 7. Re: RE: wristlocks (Ray) 8. Camarillo Mayor's Cup (Ray Terry) 9. RE: RE: wristlocks (michael tomlinson) 10. RE: Wrist Locks on Big Guys (michael tomlinson) 11. If you are around Washington D.C. this weekend (Brian Beach) 12. Re: Knife defense (Beungood8@aol.com) 13. RE: RE: wristlocks (Thomas Gordon) 14. Hidden Application (Thomas Gordon) 15. Re: Re: Not showing pain / is Rick the only sane one out there?.... (imakikr) 16. RE: If you are around Washington D.C. this weekend (michael tomlinson) 17. Re: The_Dojang digest, Pain Distraction (Foxfiremd@aol.com) 18. Wrist Locks on Big Guys (firstpe315@aol.com) 19. Re: RE: Boot camp training (Matt Munson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:56:20 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Boot camp training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I second the Crossfit recommendation from Mr. Munson. You will get some good workout ideas from that program. The only drawback to Crossfit is that some of it is very equipment intensive (I don't recommend Oly lifting without bumper plates), and I don't like the 3 day on/1 day off programming. So, take a look at the workouts and incorporate them into your training. I would also recommend setting up a "circuit training course" within your school. This can get as "bootcampish" as you care to make it, and you can also keep the movements martial arts specific. I would start with something simple like the following: Station 1 - Jump Rope Station 2 - Punching heavy bag Station 3 - Burpees (or some other complex calisthenic movement) Station 4 - Power kicks on shield, heavy bag, or Thai pads Station 5 - Jump back and forth over heavy bag lying on the floor Have the students do 30-60 seconds at each station with a 10-20 second rest in between to slightly recoup and give them time to switch (or crawl) to the next station in the circuit. You could easily run 5 to 10 people through this circuit and wear their asses out. Also, look into getting one of those boxing round timers that Ringside sells. That way, people can even come in and do circuits by themselves without having to have someone time the rounds. The above is just an example, you're only limited by your imagination. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kick # 25 Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 16:30:26 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net kick 25 is actually a slap kick to the back of the head....kick 24 I think is the one you are referring to on the video....it is confusing to watch...basically if you notice the person kicking is hitting the pad first with his knee and leg area first..underneath the pad...this is to simulate someone trying to kick you and you counter by kicking under their kick and getting to their leg and possibly the groin area on occasion... Michael Tomlinson >From: David Weller >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Kick # 25 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:53:49 -0500 > >What is kick #25 ?? >Just curious, could not really get the full impact from the video. > >Thanks >dave weller >On May 14, 2006, at 5:00 AM, the_dojang- request@martialartsresource.net >wrote: > >>Message: 8 >>From: "michael tomlinson" >>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] video clips: Grandmaster Ji, Han Jae >>Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 00:43:08 +0000 >>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >> >>those are kicks 19,22,and 24 on the 25 basic Sin Moo Hapkido kicks..... >> >> Michael Tomlinson >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 12:00:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> A big misconception here. That is not how hapkido works. This is the problem when practicing hapkido 'type' technique without any underlying principles of motion as noted in those pictures. JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 17:17:16 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere, Thanks for the good post....that is very true...Hapkido is more than a few "joint locks" you get from a book or video...it is a complete art and therein lies the misconception... Michael Tomlinson >From: "J R Hilland" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks >Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 12:00:09 -0500 > ><<me as I go from lock to lock try to find the right one.>>> > >A big misconception here. That is not how hapkido works. This is the >problem >when practicing hapkido 'type' technique without any underlying principles >of motion as noted in those pictures. JRH www.rrhapkido.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 15:28:37 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In other words, if your attacker can reach you with his free hand, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Similarly, if he can kick you, you are either in the wrong place at the wrong time (kick from the back leg) or you have not properly taken his ballance so that his weight is on his lead leg. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of Hapkido and Taekwondo schools that do not teach this. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  "J R Hilland" Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:   Subject:  [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks Date:  Mon, 15 May 2006 12:00:09 -0500 ><<me as I go from lock to lock try to find the right one.>>> > >A big misconception here. That is not how hapkido works. This is the problem >when practicing hapkido 'type' technique without any underlying principles >of motion as noted in those pictures. JRH www.rrhapkido.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Timmy Sr. Kearney" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:04:18 -0300 Subject: [The_Dojang] Wrist Locks on Big Guys Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I posted earlier,I had mentioned about sliding from 1 technique to another ,This is on the mat,and NOT on the street.Of course when dealing with a much larger ,and stronger opponent,you do need distractions,and use what ever works.God gave us two good legs,we can always use them to run. Master Tim Kearney --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 14:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > In other words, if your attacker can reach you with his free hand, you > are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Similarly, if he can kick you, > you are either in the wrong place at the wrong time (kick from the back > leg) or you have not properly taken his ballance so that his weight is on > his lead leg. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of Hapkido and Taekwondo > schools that do not teach this. That is a/the problem with static pictures. You see a moment frozen in time and can't really appreciate the complete movement or the complex motion involved. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 14:47:27 -0700 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Camarillo Mayor's Cup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The 23rd Camarillo Mayor's Cup Taekwondo Championship Saturday, August 5 8:30 AM Oxnard Colege Gym 4000 S. Rose Ave Oxnard, Calif 93030 Directed by Yong Shin Hosted by Tae Ryong Taekwondo School For questions call 805.388.KICK or go to www.trtkd.com or email trtkd@hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 22:01:22 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net we do a thing to check and see if you have your opponents balance...we draw an imaginary line from the top of the head down to each shoulder and then across on our opponent...we call that the balance triangle....if you activate a technique...even just a little bit...if that area doesn't move....you are in trouble because the opponent still has his balance and will be able to fight you...if that area moves...it is because you have locked the opponents body in such a manner that the balance triangle moves to adjust for the slack being taken out of his body in some way....try it sometimes...it's like a little gauge or meter to see if your technique is truly working... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Joseph Cheavens" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks >Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 15:28:37 -0500 > >In other words, if your attacker can reach you with his free hand, you >are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Similarly, if he can kick you, >you are either in the wrong place at the wrong time (kick from the back >leg) or you have not properly taken his ballance so that his weight is on >his lead leg. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of Hapkido and Taekwondo >schools that do not teach this. > >Joe Cheavens > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From:  "J R Hilland" > Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To:   > Subject:  [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks > Date:  Mon, 15 May 2006 12:00:09 -0500 > ><< clobbering > >me as I go from lock to lock try to find the right one.>>> > > > >A big misconception here. That is not how hapkido works. This is the > problem > >when practicing hapkido 'type' technique without any underlying > principles > >of motion as noted in those pictures. JRH www.rrhapkido.com > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Wrist Locks on Big Guys Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 22:02:37 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I like what GM Timmerman stated on an earlier post....a chair is a great distraction!!!! LOL Michael Tomlinson >From: "Timmy Sr. Kearney" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Wrist Locks on Big Guys >Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:04:18 -0300 > >When I posted earlier,I had mentioned about sliding from 1 technique to >another ,This is on the mat,and NOT on the street.Of course when dealing >with a much larger ,and stronger opponent,you do need distractions,and use >what ever works.God gave us two good legs,we can always use them to run. > > >Master Tim Kearney >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Brian Beach Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:23:35 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] If you are around Washington D.C. this weekend Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jin Pal Hapkido is having our official grand opening of the New Gaithersburg Studio - May 20th at Noon. There will be demonstrations from GM Jin Pal Kim, Masters Lok, Kim and Nguyen and others. There will also be a Lion dance and food. Please join us to celebrate the Grand Opening. All are welcome. The address is: 7427 Lindberg Dr Gaithersburg Maryland 20879-5401 301-740-2772 --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:25:21 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Knife defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 5/15/2006 12:18:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Changes my analysis a bit. Lets see, as the defender tries to execute the kick, the attacker lunges forward and either cuts the defender's rib cage or punctures his spleen. As the defender puts his leg over the attacker's arm while the attacker is still holding the knife (Holy Cow!!!), the attacker rolls forward and pulls back and up with his knife hand and immasculates the defender. The attacker then rolls over, cuts the defenders achile's tendon and his hamstrings as he stands up, then cuts the defender's throat as he drops to the ground. Did I miss anything? Joe Cheavens Totally unrealistic defenses, I agree with you 100%. They are easy to pull off in the way they are practiced,statically and cooperatively. That picture showing defender throwing his leg over attacker is scary. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: wristlocks Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 17:53:50 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net LOL! Guys, with about five years training in traditional ju-jitsu and hapkido, and compared to some of you guys, I may be a bit new to the joint lock world but I'm not new to the martial art world. Flat out, some joint lock techniques don't work when you have a much smaller defender and the attacker's wrists are as big as the defender's knee. Sorry, ain't gonna fly. Thankfully we have more than one joint lock to work with. Same is true with the blanket statement that all kicks work all the time, all pressure points, all whatever. Many of us saw the UFC 3 fight were the Kenpo guy kept kicking the much, much larger opponent (3X his size). It didn't do anything. As a "striker" type, do you think I wanted to see that?! Heck no! I was sitting there going, "What?!? A side kick to the knee will make some extremely large men laugh at a skilled martial artist?! Say it ain't so!" I started rooting for the little guy (200lbs mind ya) and he did pull it off. Whew! Also true with the precious joint locks of Hapkido. Some flat out don't work with a much larger opponent. Yeah, they may fish around for a technique, grab a pinky, OR they may have 30 years of training and flow from one to another pretty nicely. When they're done doing one or all of those things, bottom line, the original technique did not work. With that said, with my own training, I saw a weaknesses in Taekwondo and looked to minimize it with Hapkido. My instructor doesn't read to us from a book or show us videos. He gets on the floor and demonstrates. I get on the floor and train. I'll see him next class and we'll start the process all over again. Pretty simple arrangement. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 17:54:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hidden Application Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Today I took the opportunity to catch a lunch time Hapkido class. Those classes always seem the best. Less people, my radio/phone is off, and better instructor/student ratio. Anyway, we were going over some gun defense and I asked the not so innocent question about this being "authentic Hapkido" knowing I'd get a rise out of the instructor. Well, yeah, sorta he says with a big grin on his face. Thinking back to the hidden moves posts from a while back, we came to figure out that it's really hidden technique in from Taekwondo's ITF tul called Joong-Gun with the pressing block at step #27. http://www.itf-information.com/patterns07.htm Now it really wasn't a pressing block like in the form but rather a "horizontal" pressing block done in a fast motion. :) (Satire free of charge) Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "imakikr" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Not showing pain / is Rick the only sane one out there?.... Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 15:59:06 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Nice!!!!! I Love it!!! Sean Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lila Ralston" To: Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 8:44 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Not showing pain / is Rick the only sane one out there?.... > Sean Kay's remarks reminded me of this FAQ from an aikido dojo in Memphis: > > Q: What about self defense? > Aikido isn't a quick course in self defense. It takes a while before you > could use the techniques. In Brooklyn, we'd answer this question with, > "Look, you live in New York City. Sometime in the next five years you'll > probably be mugged. They'll take your money, and maybe they'll hurt you. > Or you can study Aikido. Here we will take your money every month, and > guarantee to hurt you every time you come!" > ( http://home.earthlink.net/~jimbaker6/aa/askjim.htm ) > > --Lila Ralston, Live Oak Martial Arts > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] If you are around Washington D.C. this weekend Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 23:09:17 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dang if I lived closer to you I would come and watch that in a heartbeat...good luck and happy training Brian.. Michael Tomlinson >From: Brian Beach >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] If you are around Washington D.C. this weekend >Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:23:35 -0400 > >Jin Pal Hapkido is having our official grand opening of the New >Gaithersburg Studio - May 20th at Noon. There will be demonstrations from >GM Jin Pal Kim, Masters Lok, Kim and Nguyen and others. There will also be >a Lion dance and food. > >Please join us to celebrate the Grand Opening. All are welcome. > >The address is: > >7427 Lindberg Dr >Gaithersburg Maryland 20879-5401 >301-740-2772 >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 17 From: Foxfiremd@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 19:11:19 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Pain Distraction Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 5/15/2006 11:40:02 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Your opponent will not stand there and allow you to change positions and techniques without smashing your face in. If you will deliver a pain distraction, eye jab, palm strike, front kick to groin etc.. I understand. So, now you have kicked his cojones up between his eyes as a distraction. He is now standing on tippy-toes, knees locked together, bent over, making high pitched mewing sounds, and giving up the M$Ms from third grade lunch; and you want to hold his hand and play with it? You probably could just walk away. He'll never catch you with those little bitty steps he can take. Mike --__--__-- Message: 18 Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 19:54:45 -0400 From: firstpe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Wrist Locks on Big Guys Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To echo Jye's comments, although this is not always the case, many locks and "immobilizatons" work excellent on larger men as they have no joint flexibility. I find it easier to produce pain and a need for more control in class actually on these types. The problem usually is getting these individuals into a position where this can be done because they are big, strong, confident and typically do not sit still while we try joint manipulation. It is important to remember, in my opinion, that standing joint locks are indeed more advanced and difficult to say nothing about the fact that they are mere transitions into other techniques anyway. You don't just "hang" with a wrist lock when you get it. It is either a break or a transition technique to take an individual down where more leverage can be used to immobilize or "lock them out" to finish an encounter. Considering there are counters to all techniques, and counters to all counters (ad infinitum) then the idea that a wrist lock (or most other locks for that matter) are a finishing techhnique (unless its a break) is probably the wrong way to conceptualize locks...at least standing locks. Just my .02c Jeff --__--__-- Message: 19 Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 17:36:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Munson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Boot camp training To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't really like the 3 on 1 off schedule from crossfit either but the routines are killer. Mr. Stovall, I like the circuit training (or as I call it "working the stations")also, like you outlined. Matt "Stovall, Craig" wrote: <>> I second the Crossfit recommendation from Mr. Munson. You will get some good workout ideas from that program. The only drawback to Crossfit is that some of it is very equipment intensive (I don't recommend Oly lifting without bumper plates), and I don't like the 3 day on/1 day off programming. So, take a look at the workouts and incorporate them into your training. I would also recommend setting up a "circuit training course" within your school. This can get as "bootcampish" as you care to make it, and you can also keep the movements martial arts specific. I would start with something simple like the following: Station 1 - Jump Rope Station 2 - Punching heavy bag Station 3 - Burpees (or some other complex calisthenic movement) Station 4 - Power kicks on shield, heavy bag, or Thai pads Station 5 - Jump back and forth over heavy bag lying on the floor Have the students do 30-60 seconds at each station with a 10-20 second rest in between to slightly recoup and give them time to switch (or crawl) to the next station in the circuit. You could easily run 5 to 10 people through this circuit and wear their asses out. Also, look into getting one of those boxing round timers that Ringside sells. That way, people can even come in and do circuits by themselves without having to have someone time the rounds. The above is just an example, you're only limited by your imagination. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Munson's Martial Arts Academy An American Combat Tae Kwon Do School -proud member of: The American Combat Arts Federation --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest