Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 09:02:19 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #234 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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RE: RE Defence against knife attack - Teenagers (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 2. RE: Scottish Drs. and knives (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 3. RE: 'young knives, etc. (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 4. RE: Self Protection (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 5. What happened to Bruce Simms? (Chosondo@aol.com) 6. RE: Who? (Joseph Cheavens) 7. Re: Weapons (tim walker) 8. Re: Who? (Brooke Thomas) 9. RE: Who? (Bert Edens) 10. Guns and where they live (Ray) 11. Re: Re: Weapons (Alida) 12. Guns and Crime (Joseph Cheavens) 13. GOOD RIDDANCE FACTOR (Don Ross) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE Defence against knife attack - Teenagers Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 07:37:32 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes a pocket knife/pen knife/ multi-tool's are NOT the knives in question. Butterfly knives, fixed blade knives especially the larger ones (Rambo style) ARE the knives the knives in question. I really do feel that the carrying of these weapons must be discouraged. Mankind can be violent, we know that. I'm in the prime of my life and I think I can handle myself. But what about the weak and the vulnerable? Regards, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: 23 May 2006 20:42 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE Derense against knife attack - Teenagers > "I guess at some point we should get back to KMA..." > > Agreed, when I posted the original message in was in context to young > people in the UK increasing carrying knifes with no legimate use in mind > and being prepared to use them to attack other teenagers with sometimes > tragic circumstances. The final portion of the above is no doubt the operative part, however I do worry about the statement at the beginning. What is wrong with a young person carrying a knife? Most of my friends and I were carrying pocket knives daily from about the age of 8 or 10 onwards. And only a few of us ever did hard time... (I'm kidding!!! :) So I'm lost here. Is it that they are carrying fighting daggers or something similar? I just see nothing wrong with a kid carrying around good ole Case pocket knife, or something similar. A good pocket knife has a million and one uses in daily life. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Scottish Drs. and knives Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 08:44:40 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Joe, your right to bare arms. Has that made the USA a safer place to live? -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Cheavens [mailto:jcheavens@hotmail.com] Sent: 23 May 2006 15:36 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Scottish Drs. and knives Don, handgun crime in the UK, along with other serious crimes (e.g. robbery, rape, burglary), has actually gone up since they passed their gun ban.  Kind of illustrates the NRA's old saw, "If guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will own guns." Good point with regards to the US basing its legal concepts of self-defense (including the 2nd Amendment) on the British legal tradition. Too bad the Brits allowed their government to start trampling their rights in the first place (e.g. the first firearm restrictions following WWI, passed out of fear of out of work soldiers). Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  "Don Ross"  . . . of course, >since the UK has virtually outlawed self-defense and handguns, criminals who >don't have guns will use knives, and woe be to any citizen who dares attempt >to defend themselves. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 'young knives, etc. Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 08:48:15 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Don, I have to agree with one of your final points. You can keep you laws and we'll keep ours. -----Original Message----- From: Don Ross [mailto:YongKal3@msn.com] Sent: 23 May 2006 15:23 To: dojang_digest Subject: [The_Dojang] 'young knives, etc. I neither intend nor imply any disrespect to any UK citizens, martial artists or otherwise. To date 37 or more of the 50 US States have handgun 'shall-issue' permit programs. More law-abiding people than ever before are legally carrying concealed handguns, and violent crime rates are declining, even though we have an increasing population, and more guns than ever. In the UK, with your increasingly restrictive prohibitions on even handgun possession [and now a campaign to ban 'young' knives apparently ], how's YOUR violent crime rate? FWIW, here in Washington, DC, with its VERY restrictive gun laws, the death-by-firearms rate has been calculated as being higher than for US troops in Iraq . ANY ban on personal weapons [guns, knives (young or old ones ), ball bats, fly swatters, rolled up newspapers, chewing gum wrappers, etc. will never dissuade the bad guys from obtaining and using them. Why do you think they are called 'outlaws?' Rather, prohibitions only affect adversely the law-abiding. The US experimented with our own 'Prohibition' - banning the manufacture and sale of alcoholic beverages. The end result was a decade of violence and the rise of powerful, big-money organized crime organizations which still infect our society 70+ yrs later. We Americans owe our common law foundation to Great Britain, 'a man's home is his castle', to be secure in our possessions and person, a right of self-defense, etc. It saddens us to see those basic liberties being diluted and destroyed in the Mother country. It frightens us to ponder the possibility of our country following suit - may that day never come. If the citizens of the UK are satisfied with the laws their politicians implement, and the attendant results, so be it. The best of luck to you. "The reason that our people suffer this way... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely." - Gen. Choi, Hong Hi pil seung, Don Ross Beginning is easy. Continuing is hard. - Japanese proverb [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon1.gif] _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Self Protection Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 08:56:31 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rob, there has been a high profile case in this country in which someone used a shot gun against a burglar. He was sent to prison as was the burglar. I also know of a case in the US where a burglar broke into someone's home got injured and then sued. I don't think I have to defend the law of either country. I have been attacked by 3 people. They were put in hospital. I got arrested but then released without charge. Then my assailants were charged. Again I cannot comment on every point of US or even UK law. But please do not preach piety regarding the US law system. -----Original Message----- From: rwood@moberly.k12.mo.us [mailto:rwood@moberly.k12.mo.us] Sent: 23 May 2006 13:28 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Self Protection Mr. Banham, Let us not get bogged down in a pro-firearm v. anti-firearm debate; this is a martial arts forum. The topic of concern is the British stance on self defense. Please correct the following if need be. If someone were to invade a home in the UK and that home owner met the intruder with the intent of using force to protect family members or driving the intruder from the home, chances are the home owner would be in the cell next to the criminal. As martial artists we train for a variety of reasons; whoever defense of others and self are at the very core of our training. If a training hall/dojo/dojang can not offer viable techniques for use in perilous situations, it will not be open long. If a person cannot defend themselves when the need arises, how can they NOT live in fear? IHS, Rob Wood He who ignores disciple comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored. Proverbs 13:18 This electronic communication is from Moberly Public Schools, and is confidential, privileged, and intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, unauthorized disclosure, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the CIS Department immediately at the following e-mail address: tech@moberly.k12.mo.us or by calling 660-269-2665. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 07:32:47 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] What happened to Bruce Simms? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Maybe I am a little slow in catching on to what often goes on here on DD but, what happened to Bruce Simms? Although I found Bruce to be a somewhat rough around the edges in terms of his directness, I found his take on things refreshing. Thanks. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster International Korean Martial Arts Federation (Formerly the International Chosondo Federation) Choson Kwon Bup - Hapkido - Taekwondo 7252 Valley Ave Philadelphia, PA 19128 215-483-5057, www.chosondo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Who? Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 08:12:03 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think a lot depends on how well Gracie has developed his stand-up. He's supposedly been training hard at Muay Thai, so we'll see. Otherwise, I'd give a slight edge to Hughes' ground and pound based on his quickness and strength. If it goes to the ground without Gracie softening Hughes up a bit in the stand-up, then Hughes will try and ground and pound and Gracie will try and fend off the attacks from the guard and work for a submission. In other words, a pretty boring fight. Unless Hughes gets sloppy, it'll be a judge's decision and a close one at that. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Subject: [The_Dojang] Who? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 18:56:03 -0700 (PDT) This weekend... Matt or Royce? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 09:16:13 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Here in Virginia, a "shall issue" state, there is talk of banning machetes in Fairfax County. I've said it before: Nunchucks don't kill people, Ninjas do. timo "Can't we all just get along?" --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 06:28:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Who? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I sure hope Gracie is getting paid a lot for this fight. I think he's going to have a serious problem trying to get in his customary single/double leg takedown on Hughes. Too much power and knowledge of escapes from Hughes... -Brooke Hapkido Blend --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Bert Edens" To: Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 08:55:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Who? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, all... I also think Hughes will win, but it should be a good match... Sure wish I would be somewhere that I could watch it... :-/ **bows** - Bert Edens Springdale, Arkansas -------------------------- Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Who? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 22:28:19 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think Hughes will win. I just hope it's not by decision. Get together at our house Saturday night to watch it. :) Thomas Gordon Florida [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Seoul Sisters Golf View topic - Pakpicker competition- Corning.URL] --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 06:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Guns and where they live Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Dear Joe, your right to bare arms. Has that made the USA a safer place to > live? Safer than some place else in the world? Culture, history and other things come into play more than guns. Safer than the US would have been without them? Yes, imho. Safer in the areas of the US where there are more guns than in the places in the US where there are fewer? Yes, without a doubt. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 09:59:58 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Alida" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That reminds me of the time we went to Home Depot looking for a machete to clear out what I'm pretty sure were alien vines in the back yard. "Do you carry machetes?" Clerk: *pause* "That depends. Are you happy with our service?" -------Original Message------- From: tim walker Date: 05/25/06 09:56:55 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Weapons <> Here in Virginia, a "shall issue" state, there is talk of banning machetes in Fairfax County. I've said it before: Nunchucks don't kill people, Ninjas do. timo "Can't we all just get along?" _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006 . --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 09:06:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Guns and Crime Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As gun ownership has increased in the US in the last twenty years, violent crime has decreased at a similar rate. Of course, it would be hard to prove a pure cause and effect relationship here and there are multiple factors to consider with regards to the decrease in the US crime rate (now the lowest since the US started keeping records), such as an aging population (most crimes are committed by males between the ages of 14 and 25) and stricter sentencing (more carreer criminals in jail for longer periods of time). That said, in every state that has passed laws allowing concealed carry of handguns, violent crime has gone down afterwards. The most crime riddent cities in the US are in the cities and states with the most restrictive gun laws. Banning guns does not reduce crime. At the same time that gun ownership in the US was increasing and crime rates going down, the UK virtually banned all private gun ownership and crime rates have gone up. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=438 http://www.reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Scottish Drs. and knives Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 08:44:40 +0100 Dear Joe, your right to bare arms. Has that made the USA a safer place to live? -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Cheavens [mailto:jcheavens@hotmail.com] Sent: 23 May 2006 15:36 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Scottish Drs. and knives Don, handgun crime in the UK, along with other serious crimes (e.g. robbery, rape, burglary), has actually gone up since they passed their gun ban.  Kind of illustrates the NRA's old saw, "If guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will own guns." Good point with regards to the US basing its legal concepts of self-defense (including the 2nd Amendment) on the British legal tradition. Too bad the Brits allowed their government to start trampling their rights in the first place (e.g. the first firearm restrictions following WWI, passed out of fear of out of work soldiers). Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  "Don Ross"  . . . of course, >since the UK has virtually outlawed self-defense and handguns, criminals who >don't have guns will use knives, and woe be to any citizen who dares attempt >to defend themselves. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Don Ross" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:45:00 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] GOOD RIDDANCE FACTOR Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net re the GOOD RIDDANCE FACTOR: if you choose to mourn the death of a career felon during the commission of yet another violent felony, get your own kleenex. Mine are reserved for the truly innocent victims of such animals, not their families and allies. It is neither righteous to avoid fighting when the enemy attacks, nor humanitarian to cry over the dead bodies after neglecting one's defense. - Oh-Ja 300BC pil seung, Don Ross Beginning is easy. Continuing is hard. - Japanese proverb --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest