Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 12:49:35 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #235 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Self Protection (imakikr) 2. RE: What happened to Bruce Simms? (Kevin F. Donohue) 3. Re: Who? (lkeatley@sympatico.ca) 4. weapons, paranoia, lighten up, etc. (Don Ross) 5. Several subjects to catch up on (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 6. Re: What happened to Bruce Simms? (Joshua Paszkiewicz) 7. RE: various ways of self defense (J R Hilland) 8. Hey Master Banham (JR West) 9. Mr. Stovall, was what happened to Bruce (Ray) 10. GM Chang Jin Kang (was Re: Concordia University TKD major) (Christopher Spiller) 11. RE: Self Protection (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "imakikr" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Self Protection Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 07:25:53 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Peter, The problem with the U.S. case you refered to was that the burglar probably tripped over a kids toy and fell and banged his head on the coffee table or something stupid and sued for injuries, whereas if the owners had just shot his butt or beat him with nunchucks and he fell over the coffe table, there would'nt have been a case. The problem is not in the gun law here it's in injuries on property because of being irresponsible, ie. you should pick up your rubber ducks so the moron breaking into your house doesn't hurt himself, but you can hurt him if that's what it takes to subdue and restrain him until the police arrive. You are right in the regard that we have property liability laws or courts that need serious overhauling, but don't muddy the water with those laws and our gun laws and our right to protect; its not the same thing. Congrats on protecting yourself and not being charged, that's what self-defense is all about. Good luck in training, Sean Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:56 AM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Self Protection > Dear Rob, there has been a high profile case in this country in which > someone used a shot gun against a burglar. He was sent to prison as was > the burglar. I also know of a case in the US where a burglar broke into > someone's home got injured and then sued. I don't think I have to > defend the law of either country. I have been attacked by 3 people. > They were put in hospital. I got arrested but then released without > charge. Then my assailants were charged. > > Again I cannot comment on every point of US or even UK law. But please > do not preach piety regarding the US law system. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rwood@moberly.k12.mo.us [mailto:rwood@moberly.k12.mo.us] > Sent: 23 May 2006 13:28 > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Self Protection > > Mr. Banham, > > Let us not get bogged down in a pro-firearm v. anti-firearm > debate; this is a martial arts forum. The topic of concern > is the British stance on self defense. Please correct the > following if need be. If someone were to invade a home in > the UK and that home owner met the intruder with the intent > of using force to protect family members or driving the > intruder from the home, chances are the home owner would be > in the cell next to the criminal. As martial artists we > train for a variety of reasons; whoever defense of others > and self are at the very core of our training. If a > training hall/dojo/dojang can not offer viable techniques > for use in perilous situations, it will not be open long. > If a person cannot defend themselves when the need arises, > how can they NOT live in fear? > > > IHS, > Rob Wood > > He who ignores disciple comes to poverty and shame, > but whoever heeds correction is honored. > Proverbs 13:18 > > > > > This electronic communication is from Moberly Public Schools, > and is confidential, privileged, and intended only for the > use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the > intended recipient, unauthorized disclosure, distribution, > or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you have received this message in error, please notify the > CIS Department immediately at the following e-mail address: > tech@moberly.k12.mo.us or by calling 660-269-2665. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > **************************************************************************** > > > > SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES > > > > Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety > > > > This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe > that > you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. > If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and > telephone > the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:32:13 -0400 From: "Kevin F. Donohue" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] What happened to Bruce Simms? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce can be found at www.hapkidoforum.com where he is a moderator on many of the forums. Kevin F. Donohue Chun Do Kwan - KHF -----Original Message----- From: Chosondo@aol.com [mailto:Chosondo@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:33 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] What happened to Bruce Simms? Maybe I am a little slow in catching on to what often goes on here on DD but, what happened to Bruce Simms? Although I found Bruce to be a somewhat rough around the edges in terms of his directness, I found his take on things refreshing. Thanks. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster International Korean Martial Arts Federation (Formerly the International Chosondo Federation) Choson Kwon Bup - Hapkido - Taekwondo 7252 Valley Ave Philadelphia, PA 19128 215-483-5057, www.chosondo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: To: Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:51:04 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Who? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Defintiely Royce. Hughes is good but just doesn't have the depth of skills like Gracie does. Ray wrote: > This weekend... Matt or Royce? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Don Ross" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:48:28 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] weapons, paranoia, lighten up, etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Cheavens wrote: From: "Joseph Cheavens" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Weapons Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:34:27 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net How do you figure? 70% of the guns used in crime in the US were obtained illegally (BATFE). If criminals can get heroine, don't you think that they can get guns, too? On a more apples to apples comparison, machine gun ownership in the US is very tightly regulated. Despite these restrictions, there are still incidences of machine guns being used in crimes in the US. However, there has been only one incident since these regulations were first put in place in which a legally owned machine gun was used (ironically, it was an off duty police officer). So, despite the tight regulation on machine guns, criminals are still able to obtain machine guns. In fact, it is probably a lot easier to get a machine gun illegally than legally. With regards to your statement about guns not being a "solution," I don't think anyone suggested that they are. They are a tool, though. Just like the knives in the original post, they can be used responsibly or misused. If someone is intent on hurting another person, restricting the types of tools available will not deter them. Ban guns, they'll use knives; ban knives, they'll use a hammer. Of course, since criminals aren't prone to obeying laws in the first place, such bans have little effect on their choice of tools. It does have an impact on what law abiding citizens can choose for their defense, though. According to research by Dr. John Lott, US citizens use firearms approximately 2 million times a year to deter crime, the vast majority of which does not involve the weapon being fired. Even according to the DoJ's victim surveys, which are prone to innacuracy in this particular area because of the way they phrase the question and because people are less likely to answer this honestly in response to a government agency, US citizens use firearms for self defense approximately 700,000 times a year. By comparison, according to the FBI crime statistics, firearms are used in approximately 2,000 crimes a year (again, 70% of those fierarms were obtaine illegally). Even taking the DoJ's conservative estimate, firerearms are used 350 times more often in self-defense than they are to commit crimes. According to interviews of criminals in US prisons, their #1 fear is not being caught by the cops but in running into armed citizens while attempting to victimize them. Just a few things to consider. Joe Cheavens >I would also like to mention if it is hard for us to get guns, it would >be harder for criminals to get the guns. Thank you Mr, Cheavens: most excellent response. I did not have Mssrs Lott, and Kleck's books at hand when I originally posted. pil seung, Don Ross Beginning is easy. Continuing is hard. - Japanese proverb --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 08:23:26 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Several subjects to catch up on Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know this reply is late but I have been out training. First the thread on wrist locks against big guys, It has been my opinion that wrist locks work well for Police becasue in most situation the police are controlling a suject in numbers, they apply the wrist lock with little if any resistances and once they already have control the wrist lock just further secures the subject. I have seen them effective in handcuffing, but again the subject is bent over a car, or he/she is face down in the street with the officer on their back, or they use them as come-a-long techniques after theyare secured. I teach law enforcement classes weekly, and a few years ago taught at the East Texas Police Academy @ Kilgore College. IMHO Wrist locks do work but applying them is sometimes more thricky than most people think. This is why you have not seen one in the UFC. They are legal there although finger locks and other small joint manipulation are not. (Try this drill, while free sparring try to apply a wrist lock, be sure your partner does not comply, but resist your attempts. It will not matter if he is big or your same size. Second is knife defense. This is simular to the above comments. I took 13 police officers some rookies some vets, some in good shape and some not I had a teen student of mine attack them with a chaulk filled training knife using no martial arts skill. In the drill they all woud have died. I thought bad for them and the academy training they had learned, I tried this same drill with some of my 2nd and 3rd dan students that practice knife drills. Although they did better they do would have all died. They were all trying to apply wrist locks. The facts are you are not in control of the knife so if escape is not an option, IMHO you should control what you can, that is except that you may get cut and sacrifice a small cut to gain control. Most people try to dodge, jump back, or catch the knife. Experiance has taught me these actions get you cut bad. 3rd is the Matt Hughes, Royce Gracie fight. It is my opinion that the fight could go either way, although I feel like the only way that Matt can win is to cut Graice and the ref stop the fight, or win on the score cards Matt has said he will try to keep it standing but that will not happen. He took down Shamrock (Shoot specialist), Kimo (250 lbs Brute), Dan Severn (Wrestler 260lbs) I believe it was Remquest (6'4 240lbs Judo instructor), and all the rest. He will take Matt down too. Matt's strength will not be a factor. I feel Matt will get top position and try to ground and pound but Gracie can submit Matt at any time, and the chance Matt can submit Gracie is very low. I don't think age will not be a factor because both are in excellent shape. We know Gracie will not submit, but Matt will. My prediction is Iif it goes the distance Matt may win, ( but a desision is not a win but an opinion) but if it does not Gracie wins by submission in the second round. I will be on row 9 sec 6 of floor I can't wait. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 11:16:47 -0500 From: "Joshua Paszkiewicz" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: What happened to Bruce Simms? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Message: 5 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 07:32:47 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] What happened to Bruce Simms? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Maybe I am a little slow in catching on to what often goes on here on DD but, what happened to Bruce Simms? Although I found Bruce to be a somewhat rough around the edges in terms of his directness, I found his take on things refreshing. Thanks. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster International Korean Martial Arts Federation (Formerly the International Chosondo Federation) Choson Kwon Bup - Hapkido - Taekwondo 7252 Valley Ave Philadelphia, PA 19128 215-483-5057, www.chosondo.com ------------------- Dear GM Cyrus, Whilst I do not know what may have happened on DD, Master Sims is still around, I had a couple conversations with him yesterday over at Martialwarrior.com and hapkidoforum.com Hope that helps, In Mu Do, --Josh Paszkiewicz --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 11:29:37 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: various ways of self defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Many years ago, while still living in my home state of Texas, I went to the grocery store on my road king (a Harley) to get my wife some flu medicine very late at night. Returning to the bike in the empty parking lot, 4 gang bangers walked around the corner of the store and started pulling assorted weapons; chains, knives, sticks... My first thought was that I really have no time for this, so I took my concealed 9mm (that I carry legally) from my belt and simply pointed it at the ground. They turned away from my vector and went somewhere else. I then let the local authorities (a friend) know they were there. JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "JR West" To: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:17:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hey Master Banham Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bob: Personally, I would love to watch a European futbol (Soccer) game on TV if I knew the hooligans were able to get their hands on a bunch of automatic weapons. Now THAT would be a show! (he said with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek).....Best wishes to you and yours........JRW www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Stovall, was what happened to Bruce Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Bruce can be found at www.hapkidoforum.com where he is a moderator on many > of the forums. Note to Mr. Stovall... Now whatever you do Craig, please do not attempt to post insightful comments to these other forums. The moderator there may just have to punish you. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:44:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Chang Jin Kang (was Re: Concordia University TKD major) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >> Grandmaster Chang Jin Kang that is involved in >> bringing the TKD program on at Concordia >> University was one of General Choi's >> students... ... last training workout directed by >> Genral Choi before his death. It was an >> "invitation only" event from General Choi. >But this fellow is Kukki-TKD now, not ITF? >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com Ray, As far as I can tell, GM Chang Jin Kang was the former head of the ITC (International Taekwondo Council) and was featured in TKD Times several years ago. IIRC, the ITC was formed by a break away group from the ATA who asked GM Chang to head their organization and they did both ITF tuls and WTF poomse. I don't have any idea if GM Chang was a student of Gen. Choi's or if he was for how long. There were a couple photos of him in TKD Times in the big 2000 issue that featured a Gen. Choi interview by Dr. Hee Young Kimm. In those pics GM Chang was at an International Instructor Course given by Gen. Choi in Denver. I don't know how much other training he received from Gen. Choi but if he's been around long enough he certainly could've been in the ROK army, which was the home of the Oh Do Kwan. I haven't heard of him being a recognized GM by any of the ITF factions, however (meaning I haven't seen his name on any list of IX dans). Taekwon, Chris Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, There's always laughter and good red wine. At least I've always found it so. Benedicamus Domino! -Hilaire Belloc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Self Protection Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 20:01:39 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Sean, HOOOOLD ON A MINUTE! My very first post, which now seems lost in the wave after wave of comments that have come through. My post was in response to the tragic teenage death a boy outside of school. This murder was committed by another youth using a knife. I never meant to get into constitutional rights and so on. However what seems said to me was that someone said in a post "that wouldn't make the news in US" If I may add this, I abhor violence for violence sake. I love martial arts for a number of reasons none them is to hurt anyone. The violent incident that I mentioned in a previous post involved an approx 9" blade. It was about 13 years ago when my wife was carrying our twins. She was poke in the belly by the above mentioned blade. I lost it -----Original Message----- From: imakikr [mailto:imakikr@cox.net] Sent: 25 May 2006 15:26 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Self Protection Dear Peter, The problem with the U.S. case you refered to was that the burglar probably tripped over a kids toy and fell and banged his head on the coffee table or something stupid and sued for injuries, whereas if the owners had just shot his butt or beat him with nunchucks and he fell over the coffe table, there would'nt have been a case. The problem is not in the gun law here it's in injuries on property because of being irresponsible, ie. you should pick up your rubber ducks so the moron breaking into your house doesn't hurt himself, but you can hurt him if that's what it takes to subdue and restrain him until the police arrive. You are right in the regard that we have property liability laws or courts that need serious overhauling, but don't muddy the water with those laws and our gun laws and our right to protect; its not the same thing. Congrats on protecting yourself and not being charged, that's what self-defense is all about. Good luck in training, Sean Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:56 AM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Self Protection > Dear Rob, there has been a high profile case in this country in which > someone used a shot gun against a burglar. He was sent to prison as was > the burglar. I also know of a case in the US where a burglar broke into > someone's home got injured and then sued. I don't think I have to > defend the law of either country. I have been attacked by 3 people. > They were put in hospital. I got arrested but then released without > charge. Then my assailants were charged. > > Again I cannot comment on every point of US or even UK law. But please > do not preach piety regarding the US law system. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rwood@moberly.k12.mo.us [mailto:rwood@moberly.k12.mo.us] > Sent: 23 May 2006 13:28 > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Self Protection > > Mr. Banham, > > Let us not get bogged down in a pro-firearm v. anti-firearm > debate; this is a martial arts forum. The topic of concern > is the British stance on self defense. Please correct the > following if need be. If someone were to invade a home in > the UK and that home owner met the intruder with the intent > of using force to protect family members or driving the > intruder from the home, chances are the home owner would be > in the cell next to the criminal. As martial artists we > train for a variety of reasons; whoever defense of others > and self are at the very core of our training. If a > training hall/dojo/dojang can not offer viable techniques > for use in perilous situations, it will not be open long. > If a person cannot defend themselves when the need arises, > how can they NOT live in fear? > > > IHS, > Rob Wood > > He who ignores disciple comes to poverty and shame, > but whoever heeds correction is honored. > Proverbs 13:18 > > > > > This electronic communication is from Moberly Public Schools, > and is confidential, privileged, and intended only for the > use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the > intended recipient, unauthorized disclosure, distribution, > or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you have received this message in error, please notify the > CIS Department immediately at the following e-mail address: > tech@moberly.k12.mo.us or by calling 660-269-2665. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > ************************************************************************ **** > > > > SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES > > > > Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety > > > > This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe > that > you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. > If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and > telephone > the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest