Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 17:23:23 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #243 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Woman in the UFC (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 2. Fight Club (Boit Clinton Maj AF/A1MP) 3. underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California (William.Baldwin@ureach.com) 4. Re: Woman in the UFC (joconnor@cybermesa.com) 5. re: contracts (Mike Donahoo) 6. Re: underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California (Ray) 7. Re: underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California (joconnor@cybermesa.com) 8. RE: Scottish Drs. and knives (Rick Clark) 9. Knife used in self-defense (aburrese@aol.com) 10. korean swordsmith site (Wes Heaps) 11. Re: underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California (Martin Von Cannon) 12. Re: underground fight clubs amongst tech workers (Ray) 13. Re: underground fight clubs amongst tech workers (joconnor@cybermesa.com) 14. RE: Contracts (Howard Spivey) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 08:16:19 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Woman in the UFC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net IMHO: I believe the martial arts are excellent for woman in general, for many different reasons. Excercise, confidence, self-defense, etc. Although, I am not a fan of woman fighting in a cage, or woman boxing. I think it is good for woman to learn realistic techniques for the self-defense aspects. I prefer to see a woman as a woman. This does not mean I think they are not capable, just that I personally prefer to see them train hard learn what is necessary to defend themselves, but leave the beating each other to a bloody mess to the men. My wife is a Cho Dan, My eleven year old daughter is a 1st Gup, My six year old is a 3rd Gup, and my 2 year old lives at the Do-Jang and thinks he is a dan- LOL-. I push my family and all my other students, but for my daughters I make them train hard but expect them to be ladies outside the school. My eleven year old choked out a seventeen year old boy two weeks ago in a triangle. So I will quit rambling now and finish by saying woman should in my opinion train as hard as the guys, but I don't want to see them beating each other up in a cage. Just my opinion JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 11:32:42 -0400 From: "Boit Clinton Maj AF/A1MP" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Fight Club Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net MENLO PARK, Calif. (AP) - They may sport love handles and Ivy League degrees, but every two weeks some Silicon Valley techies turn into vicious street brawlers in a real-life, underground fight club. Kicking, punching and swinging every household object imaginable - from frying pans and tennis rackets to pillowcases stuffed with soda cans - they beat each other mercilessly in a garage in this bedroom community south of San Francisco. Then, bloodied and bruised, they limp back to their desks in the morning. "When you get beat down enough, it becomes a very un-macho thing," said Shiyin Siou, 34, a Santa Clara software engineer and three-year veteran of the clandestine fights. "But I don't need this to prove I'm macho - I'm macho enough as it is." Inspired by the 1999 film Fight Club, starring Brad Pitt and Ed Norton, underground bare-knuckle brawling clubs have sprung up across the country as a way for desk jockeys and disgruntled youths to vent their frustrations and prove themselves. "This is as close as you can get to a real fight, even though I've never been in one," the soft-spoken Siou said. Despite his reserved demeanor, he daydreams about inflicting pain on an attacker. "I have fantasies about it," he said. In recent months, police in New Jersey and Pennsylvania have broken up fight clubs involving teens and preteens who posted videos of their bloody battles online. Earlier this month in Arlington, Texas, a high school student who didn't want to participate was beaten so badly that he suffered a brain hemorrhage and broken vertebrae. Six teenagers were arrested after DVDs of the fight appeared for sale online. Adult groups are more likely to fly under the radar of authorities. Menlo Park police hadn't heard about the local club and said they wouldn't be likely to take action because the fights are on private property between consenting adults. That could change if someone complains or is sent to a hospital, police said. Gints Klimanis, a 37-year-old software engineer and martial arts instructor, started the invitation-only "Gentlemen's Fight Club" in Menlo Park in 2000 after his no-holds-barred sessions with a training partner grew to more than a dozen people. Most participants are men working in the high-tech industry. "You get to be a superhero for a night," Klimanis said. "We have to go to work every day. We're constantly told to buy things we don't need, and just for a couple hours we have the freedom to do what we want to do." The only protective equipment used is fencing and hockey masks. Several fighters have suffered broken noses, ribs and fingers. Men involved in fight clubs often carry bottled-up violent impulses learned in childhood from video games, cartoons and movies, said Michael Messner, a University of Southern California sociology and gender studies professor. "Boys have these warrior fantasies picked up from popular culture, and schools sort of force that out of them," he said. In these fantasies, "The good guys always resort to violence, and they always get the glory and the women." There is also a sadomasochistic thread running through underground fight clubs, said Michael Kimmel, a sociology professor at Stony Brook University in New York. "Real-life fight clubs are the male version of the girls who cut themselves," he said. "All day long these guys think they're the captains of the universe, technical wizards. They're brilliant but empty. "They want to feel differently. They want to get hit, they want to feel something real." Five-year fight club veteran Dinesh Prasad, 32, a heavily tattooed Santa Clara engineer, said he once broke a rib in a match but never complained to his fellow combatants. He also recently skipped his first wedding anniversary to attend a fight rather than drive to Los Angeles, where his wife is finishing law school. "I came here to get over my fear of fighting, and it's working," he said. "I'm much tougher than I was five years ago. I'm not at the level of these other guys, but if things were to get tough, I can get tough, too." --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 11:51:58 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: William.Baldwin@ureach.com, MD-S Subject: [The_Dojang] underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #242 Message: 12 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Silicon Valley fight clubs To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 21:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > USA Today ran a brief article on an upsurge in the popularity of > underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California. > > http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-05-29-fight-club_x.htm > > Frying pans? Pillowcases stuffed with soda cans? [Strange as it may seem, a few don't even meet in the same [place twice to [reduce visibility. [ [No frying pans or pillowcases, just sticks. Interesting [groups... [ [Ray Terry [rterry@idiom.com Just sticks? they should hook up with the dog brothers if they want to fight with sticks.... --__--__-- Message: 4 From: joconnor@cybermesa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Woman in the UFC Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:05:08 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I second this. My daughters are in taekwondo and I think the self-defense is great, plus the conditioning and self-awareness/self-conditioning. Sparring is fun as a sport, but watching women try to beat the heck out of each other doesn't interest me. Actually, it doesn't really mean much to me to see men do it. I once read a book by a martial artist comparing moden MMA events like UFC with Roman Gladiator spectacle, more about the bloodlust of the crowd then the martial art of the fighters. Take care, Jay ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 08:16:19 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Woman in the UFC > IMHO: I believe the martial arts are excellent for woman in general, > for many different reasons. Excercise, confidence, self-defense, > etc. Although, I am not a fan of woman fighting in a cage, or woman > boxing. I think it is good for woman to learn realistic techniques > for the self-defense aspects. I prefer to see a woman as a woman. > This does not mean I think they are not capable, just that I > personally prefer to see them train hard learn what is necessary to > defend themselves, but leave the beating each other to a bloody mess > to the men. > > My wife is a Cho Dan, My eleven year old daughter is a 1st Gup, My > six year old is a 3rd Gup, and my 2 year old lives at the Do-Jang > and thinks he is a dan- LOL-. I push my family and all my other > students, but for my daughters I make them train hard but expect > them to be ladies outside the school. My eleven year old choked out > a seventeen year old boy two weeks ago in a triangle. So I will > quit rambling now and finish by saying woman should in my opinion > train as hard as the guys, but I don't want to see them beating each > other up in a cage. > > Just my opinion > > JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------- End of Original Message ------- --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: contracts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net greetings and congrats on opening your own school! our school has contracts and it works out great. i understand both sides of the contract issue and they both have very valid points. here is how our situation works. a student signs a 24 month agreement. the price is locked at $59.00 a month. the student can break at any time and there is no cancellation fee or initiation fee. they simply agree to pay for the lessons they have already taken - your not holding them to future lessons. we don't upgrade students into packages or services later. that is dishonest to bait and switch. our school has close to 300 students. every once in a while you get a parent that is iffy on the contract but that has never stopped anyone from signing. second thing that i can recommend is getting a billing company. that takes you out of the role of bill collector. trust me, i did collections and repoed cars in my years before teaching full time. you dont want the role of bill collector :) yes, a billing company can take as much as 10% of collected fees. example - if we get $15,000 a month in tuition then they take $1,500. we use AMS. another reputable one is NAPMA. not only do they handle your billing and contracts, but they provide assistance on helping you market your school and advertising advice. we had our local attorney draw up the contract/agreement and our billing company uses that. there are worth there weight in gold. there school promotion ideas are great. no other school in our area was doing school visits until we started it. that is a great way to boost student enrollment. you go and introduce yourself to the gym teacher - not the principal. 99% of the time the gym teacher would love to let you teach an entire days worth of gym classes, it frees him up to do paperwork and all he does is introduce you at the begining of class and supervise. most schools then let you send home fliers with the students. great recruiting tool - the kids go home pumped and excited from a demo and mini taekwondo class with a flier to mom and dad. it also helps your school combat evil summer sports like baseball and soccer that draw kids away from class. anyway, i have gotten way off the topic of contracts. i feel that if done correctly the have a lot to offer. In devotion to the Art, Mike Donahoo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 11:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Just sticks? they should hook up with the dog brothers if they > want to fight with sticks.... These groups wear less protection and are much less visible than our friends down south, the Dog Brothers. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: joconnor@cybermesa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 12:56:52 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Just sticks? they should hook up with the dog brothers if they > > want to fight with sticks.... > > These groups wear less protection and are much less visible than our > friends down south, the Dog Brothers. > Does anyone else find the idea of a bunch of tech works getting together to beat the crap out of each other really funny? Ok, I'm a tech worker myself (software developer) but I find the idea of a bunch of probably untrained geeks getting together to slap each other around really humourous Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:30:29 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Scottish Drs. and knives To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Peter, >Dear Joe, your right to bare arms. Has that made the USA a >safer place to live? I am just back from the UK and I noticed a number of stabbing making the news in the UK. Do the restrictive laws on knives, guns, and the like make you more secure in your person and possessions? "Scotland has been named the most violent country in the developed world by a United Nations report. The study found that, excluding murder, Scots were almost three times as likely to be assaulted as Americans. Victims of crime in 21 countries were interviewed by the UN, but senior Scots police officers criticised the study. The survey concluded that 2,000 Scots were attacked every week. That figure is 10 times the number recorded in official police figures......." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4257966.stm With some research on the web I am confident you can find statistics that will show that in states (in the US) that individuals have the right to carry canceled weapons (hand guns) there will be a lower rate of crime than in states with more restrictive laws. I have a permit to carry a canceled handgun, and yes I do feel I am safer with the firearm than without. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:27:51 -0400 From: aburrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Knife used in self-defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Story regarding a person defending himself with a pocket knife. http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9290011/detail.html Alain www.burrese.com For Your Safety - For Your Success --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Heaps To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] korean swordsmith site Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir i congratulate you on your site. very user friendly !!!! If you are looking for more research material (expert interviews) may i suggest that you contact Master Barry Harmon, He's been researching Korean history and sword making for the past 30 years. So he might be able to help u with your journey. You can contact him By going to www.wksa.com, then clicking schools icon, clicking southwest region, find Texas, then find the school in Webster. Or you may call the school directly at (281)486-5425. I beleive he is about to release a book called "1000 years of korean history" as well. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 13:56:32 -0700 From: Martin Von Cannon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] underground fight clubs amongst tech workers in California Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Quoting joconnor@cybermesa.com: > > Does anyone else find the idea of a bunch of tech works getting together to > beat the crap out of each other really funny? Ok, I'm a tech worker myself > (software developer) but I find the idea of a bunch of probably untrained > geeks getting together to slap each other around really humourous > > Take care, > Jay I would agree with you on this one. I would expect to see it on America Funniest Videos. Like you I am in the tech sector and just have a hard time visualizing some of these guys wailing on each other. - Martin E. Von Cannon Tacoma Dojang Instructor mvoncannon@akdwa.org http://tacoma.akdwa.org --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] underground fight clubs amongst tech workers To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 14:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Does anyone else find the idea of a bunch of tech works getting together to > beat the crap out of each other really funny? Ok, I'm a tech worker myself > (software developer) but I find the idea of a bunch of probably untrained > geeks getting together to slap each other around really humourous Many of these guys have years of training. And when you've got that much tension built up from coding 18 hours a day for weeks on end, well, things can get hot and heavy... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: joconnor@cybermesa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] underground fight clubs amongst tech workers Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:22:36 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 14:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] underground fight clubs amongst tech workers > > Does anyone else find the idea of a bunch of tech works getting together to > > beat the crap out of each other really funny? Ok, I'm a tech worker myself > > (software developer) but I find the idea of a bunch of probably untrained > > geeks getting together to slap each other around really humourous > > Many of these guys have years of training. Yeah, I know, I know..I wouldn't doubt it...but my first mental image was...not complimentary :) > And when you've got that much tension built up from coding 18 hours > a day for weeks on end, well, things can get hot and heavy... :) Don't I know it...although back before I started MA and I was into video games (Doom), my work stress reliefe fantasies included rocket launchers so this is probably for the better, all things considered. Now if they could only arrange it as 'the techs' vs 'the pointy-haired bosses', that would probably be very cathartic :) Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 17:40:20 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Contracts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Seidel, Contracts that specify that money will be paid for services to be performed or goods to be delivered in the future (executory contracts) are indeed enforceable if they meet the basic conditions of a valid contract (mutual assent, consideration exchanged, contractual capacity of the parties to the contract and legal subject matter). They generally cannot be rescinded unilaterally. Valid executory contracts are enforced routinely in the courts. They are addressed considerably in bankruptcy law. IMO, the best course of action for any school owner who is thinking about having students sign contracts is to talk to an attorney licensed to practice in your state and have them draw up your contract. Regards, Howard "Contracts are not enforceable in court because they ask for money for services yet to be performed. If someone is in arrears you can prevail but trying to collect for money for lessons not given is difficult. The exception is if you declare in the contract that the value of the contract may be sold or used as collateral and have them initial that paragraph. This is called factoring (selling or putting up as collateral your contracts to a bank or company for operating cash. Then you must prove that you did that." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest