Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:03:10 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #267 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Maybe there is hope (J R Hilland) 2. Horse's teeth (Bob Banham) 3. Caveat Emptor (Michael Atamian) 4. Magazines (Michael Atamian) 5. Re: Post ACL-repair: Return to TKD or not? (Craig Zeigler) 6. RE: Traditional TKD Magazine (Martin Von Cannon) 7. Re: post ACL repair (Lila Ralston) 8. RE: School Decals (gtkda@ntelos.net) 9. RE: RE: School Decals (Joseph Cheavens) 10. RE: Traditional TKD Magazine (Erik Brann) 11. RE: RE: School Decals (Jye nigma) 12. Re: Caveat Emptor (Jye nigma) 13. free trial class? (Duque Institute of Martial Arts) 14. Re: Cost of business (Jye nigma) 15. Re: Magazines (steven riggs) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:15:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Maybe there is hope Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Having had just returned from a long over due vacation (Yellowstone National Park did not have any openings for a hapkido instructor so we had to come back home), I finally got through checking my email and noted several messages on the digest about the BB Magazine article featuring Master West. I must confess that the last time I bought BB Magazine was in 1986 when I was collecting articles on the founder of hapkido, Choi Young Sul after he passed away that August (20 years ago this summer). I can’t say BB has changed much, Taekwondo Times is not any better, and Asian World is slowly slipping away into a self absorbed academic publication; however, it is refreshing to see a ‘real player’ get some attention in today’s world of dishonest martial arts marketing. Admittedly I am biased, as Master West is my teacher; nevertheless, it does provide some hope that the world of martial arts magazines in general are not a complete waste of time and space, as well as a total embarrassment to anyone in the arts. I thought the article was well written, and as an instructor at this venue, I was impressed with the professionalism of the BB representatives. Maybe there is hope for us after all... Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bob Banham" To: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:52:41 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Horse's teeth Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know we're in UK so it's a bit different but we offer 1 month's free training to prospective students. If they want to join after that they pay £50/month (about $90) and for this they get 3 classes a week, uniform, badges, membership of WHA, syllabus book, insurance and testing fees (3 per year) and new belt when they test. In other words they never have to find another penny. Our classes are open to viewing by parent's and friends (unless they make too much noise!) We have around 150 students and make a living. And we have a big advantage over our rivals as we obviously offer value for money! Bob --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Michael Atamian" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:20:26 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Caveat Emptor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig Stovall hit the nail on the head! It is refreshing to read that many of you actually understood what I said in my first comment when I replied to Master Terry's original statement entitled "Caveat Emptor". A paper pedigree which can easily be bought is worthless. Action talks and Bulls--- walks as we used to say up in RI. Bruce Lee said it best, "Boards don't hit back!". (Enter The Dragon). Fraternally, Michael A. Atamian Doju/Choson Do --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Michael Atamian" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:43:44 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Magazines Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Riggs: TaeKwonDoTimes published two guest editorials (1984 and 2002) that I wrote and one six page article (Choson Do) that I wrote and provided photos for (May, 1984) all without one word being edited. The late Grandmaster Sang Kyu Shim was Editor in Chief at that time. Since then TKDT has concentrated its efforts on Koreans (from Korea mostly), has made it more difficult to write and submit articles and, alas, has succumbed to the will of its advertisers and those who take out multiple page ads selling their DVD box sets, etc. May I respectfully suggest that you have your Daughter write until they accept and, perhaps, mail her manuscripts directly to Carol Davis Hart, Managing Editor of TKDT. She has been there since the mag's inception and I have always known her to be fair and impartial. Fraternally, Michael A. Atamian Doju/Choson Do --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:01:29 -0400 From: Craig Zeigler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Post ACL-repair: Return to TKD or not? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net tamer uk wrote: > Hi there - long time reader, first time poster =) > > I have been a UK TKD follower since 1994 GTF, ITF and TAGB (i'm 30 > now), training in various clubs i managed to reach red tag/3rd kup > before i ruptured my anterior cruciate ligament whilst sparring (not > recommended, makes a nasty sickening noise...!) > > I underwent surgery (hamstring graft) in September 2004, fully > rehabilitated, training at the gym these days about 2 times/week - > mostly cardio stuff for 45 mins each session. The surgeon saw me 18 > months post op for the final review and i asked him if i should return > to TKD or not, his answer to me was - "If you're not doing the sport > professionally, or relying on it for an income then it's probably best > to stay away from it!" > > So i have since been practising Tai-Chi, which i find is an excellent > contrast to TKD - some very interesting movements and techniques. > However the training "sessions" are no way near the type of physical > exertion i have come to know (and love) with TKD. > > There's a club near to where i have just moved, i am tempted to go and > check it out - even just to train once or twice to see how it goes... > i would be happy just to start from scratch as a 10th Kup, in fact i > would probably prefer to do that just so i can re-build strength in my > knee.. > > I have taken out private healthcare since the ACL incident (4-7 year > waiting list on our NHS for this op!) so if it happened again i'd get > treated faster, but obviously i'd rather it didn't happen again! ;o) > > Anyone else been in this sort of situation before, or any advice from > instructors? > > Many thanks - Taekwon! > Rob > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > I have also been unlucky enough to tear my ACL, and after the last surgery it was nearly a year before I went back to it. mainly due to the rehab, and the fact that it never was really stable. When I went back I of course wore a brace, and it seemed to work ok for a while. One night when sparing someone much bigger than I, we collided and I hear a very loud pop followed by swelling and a nearly uncontrollable urge to utter the 4-letter dictionary. That night ended my sparring, and after finding that I partially tore my ACL and MCL, I decided there would be no more sparing. I still spend time practicing my poomse, and all of the other fun stuff, but sparring, board breaking, and anything that could damage that further/again is completely off limits. My advice after that somewhat lengthly rant is to listen to be careful. You know your body better than anyone else, so listen to what its telling you. If you decide to go back, wear a brace, even though they're really uncomfortable, and irritating. Also consider not sparing. This can protect you as well as someone you're training with. From what partners have told me, colliding with a metal object isn't very pleasent. Good Luck. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:07:43 -0700 From: Martin Von Cannon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Traditional TKD Magazine Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Quoting Joseph Cheavens : > > The Aikdo Journal would serve as a good model for anyone wishing to > create an Online KMA journal. > > Joe Cheavens Mr. Cheavens, Nice subtle hint. Publish our own. With the technology available to everyone, this is possible. The only draw back I see is time. Writers need to write, advertisement gathered (keeps the cost low), publishers need to publish. I, for one, would subscribe to a decent magazine (online or physical). Now I just need to find one. - Martin E. Von Cannon Tacoma Dojang Instructor mvoncannon@akdwa.org http://tacoma.akdwa.org --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Lila Ralston" To: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:40:06 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: post ACL repair Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Rob--I have torn ACLs in both my knees and know exactly what that sounds like. Rather like disjointing a chicken leg. My best advice to you is: 1. Build up your knees (both of them) BEFORE you return to TKD. Do some serious strength training of your quads and hamstrings. This will add stability to the joint and help prevent a re-injury. 2. Work on your ankles. Weak or unstable ankles will put additional stress on your knees. Wobble board and resistance band exercises are good for this; you can also sit on a Swiss ball (if you have one) and slowly write the alphabet in the air with your toe. If you have not seen a physiotherapist, you should. She or he can prescribe strengthening exercises and advise you on which moves to avoid at first (from my own experience, I can recommend avoiding pivoting rapidly on the affected leg, and avoid having that leg swept out from under you!). Good luck! --Lila Ralston, Live Oak Martial Arts --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:49:43 -0400 (EDT) From: gtkda@ntelos.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: School Decals Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net So far I have had only one person reply personally to offer any suggestions on a company who does decal or sticker work. If anyone else would like to offer any suggestions, my eyes and ears are open.. Again, if anyone would like to see what I have come up with in order to offer me any suggestions I would be glad to send you what I have. Thank you again. James Morgan GTKDA Lewisburg, WV --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: School Decals Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:35:20 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Have you asked for quotes from local sign and print shops? Joe Cheavens --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Erik Brann" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Traditional TKD Magazine Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:57:20 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have the software tools to make a nice PDF layout document. I'd be willing to collaborate with anyone who had an interest in star -----Original Message----- From: Martin Von Cannon [mailto:mvoncannon@akdwa.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:08 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Traditional TKD Magazine Quoting Joseph Cheavens : > > The Aikdo Journal would serve as a good model for anyone wishing to > create an Online KMA journal. > > Joe Cheavens Mr. Cheavens, Nice subtle hint. Publish our own. With the technology available to everyone, this is possible. The only draw back I see is time. Writers need to write, advertisement gathered (keeps the cost low), publishers need to publish. I, for one, would subscribe to a decent magazine (online or physical). Now I just need to find one. - Martin E. Von Cannon Tacoma Dojang Instructor mvoncannon@akdwa.org http://tacoma.akdwa.org _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:03:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: School Decals To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You can also try www.printedideas.com Jye Joseph Cheavens wrote: Have you asked for quotes from local sign and print shops? Joe Cheavens _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Caveat Emptor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net so true...definitely new England talk...lol Jye Michael Atamian wrote: Craig Stovall hit the nail on the head! It is refreshing to read that many of you actually understood what I said in my first comment when I replied to Master Terry's original statement entitled "Caveat Emptor". A paper pedigree which can easily be bought is worthless. Action talks and Bulls--- walks as we used to say up in RI. Bruce Lee said it best, "Boards don't hit back!". (Enter The Dragon). Fraternally, Michael A. Atamian Doju/Choson Do _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Duque Institute of Martial Arts" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:45:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] free trial class? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Regarding free trial class - I've found that offering a free class over the phone is very helpful for both sides. I say to potential students and their parents - "You'll want to check out several schools in the area because each has a different personality, culture, and style of teaching. Each school should be happy to give you a free trial class. We encourage you to come watch a class, then participate in a free class, and THEN make the decision." I find this works very well because we are more expensive than other schools around. If they are shopping by price, they might never get in our door. However, we are hands-down CLEANER, MORE PROFESSIONAL, MORE STRUCTURED and have a higher level of clientele. Once they stop by, we have an almost 100% conversion rate. Encouraging them to shop around also weeds out the casual shopper who won't become a committed student. A person who has decided to practice martial arts seriously will take care in finding a good school. We are the best school around and are very enthusiastic about sharing Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido with newbies. We are very open, welcoming, and positive. We want to attract like people, as well as protect the growing community of people we are creating. Let the others go across town, we didn't want the headache anyway. And for us, it gives us a chance to evaluate the current rank of the student. Are they truly at the level they should be? Are they just a "fighter" or do they understand that we expect our higher level belts to become experts in their field? We teach history, character, etc. Are they well-rounded or just a kicker? Finally, do we WANT them in our school? Higher level belts require much more attention, more complicated planning for curriculum, etc. Is this someone that will put in as much sweat equity in their training as we will? Sincerely, Kat ------------------------------------------------------------------------ See if you've won, play MSN Search and Win --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:17:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cost of business To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Running a martial arts school and a business just like running a church is a business. Primary bills must be paid to keep the place running, so there's nothing wrong with charging. Life is like this...there will always be people who run establishments and charge what some may not be able to afford, but then there are those who share knowledge for free so it's a balance and there's room for everyone. Jye --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:47:34 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Magazines To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you so much for your thoughtfulness. Now I just have to get Aubrey to sit down and write. She has most recently been working on material for her future father-in-law for his ministry programs largely done on computer graphics. He does a large amount of work with Messianic Jews and she is really enjoying the opportunity to work with him & her fiance on joint projects. So I will start working on her and see what we can come up with. (I struggled greatly to get her to write an article about my summer day martial arts camp for the local paper) I wrote an article one time that the general thrust of it if done on a more professional level I think would be good for publication. It would however step on a lot of toes. While I do teach my students a type of controlled point sparring for safety reasons I am not a proponent of the big tournament scene today. I believe that spending much time in that type of sparring in class will degrade skills, develop bad habits and it is largely ineffective in true life self-defense situations. I believe it was M.A. Success a few years ago published a short letter I wrote addressing the subject. I was a little surprised but then the letter following mine was from Jerry Beasley from VA basically agreeing with me. I don't know if you are familiar with him but he is a highly regarded martial artist in his field. He founded the Karate College in Radford VA where he brings top instructors from all over the country for a long weekend of instruction. He brings in people like members of the Gracie family, Joe Lewis, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace and others. Beasley was the first college professor to actually get a bachelors program in place in a recognized and respected college and get it accredited where you can major in the martial arts. There are aspects of what he does that I might not agree with but he seems to be the genuine thing as far as knowledge and skill goes. I wrote a longer article along a similar subject but not directed so much at my disrespect in general towards the American tournament scene. I addressed more the difference in training in modern day American dojo's and dojang's compared with the days where you & I trained in the 60's & 70's. In recent years there has been one of these big guru's who charge you $2000 to come to his seminars where he teaches martial arts people, not martial arts, but how to market it and make a million dollars. He literally says you can become a millionaire and you should regardless of what type of rates you have to charge your students. He goes on to say that todays methods of training are superior to yesteryear and the athletes are superior today. An interesting idea but how does that fit with the fact that all over the USA when people want the best instructors they are going back to the people who came out of the 60's, 70's & 80's. There are some exceptions of course but how come they want the men & some women who are in their 50-70's to be the one's teaching these seminars when the seminar is not about marketing but about real life down to earth martial arts. I will get off my soap box but I know how we trained years ago and most people today could not handle it and would quit long before making black belt. That is not to say that there are not some great instructors with high standards and they turn out excellent black belts who understand the arts, exhibit great skill and have a clear set of or standard of morality and ethics that they wish to pass along to the next generation. It is getting past midnight and I still have to order equipment for my students and I am starting to ramble. Please feel free to call me Steve or Steven, my friends do. Steven Riggs Michael Atamian wrote: Master Riggs: TaeKwonDoTimes published two guest editorials (1984 and 2002) that I wrote and one six page article (Choson Do) that I wrote and provided photos for (May, 1984) all without one word being edited. The late Grandmaster Sang Kyu Shim was Editor in Chief at that time. Since then TKDT has concentrated its efforts on Koreans (from Korea mostly), has made it more difficult to write and submit articles and, alas, has succumbed to the will of its advertisers and those who take out multiple page ads selling their DVD box sets, etc. May I respectfully suggest that you have your Daughter write until they accept and, perhaps, mail her manuscripts directly to Carol Davis Hart, Managing Editor of TKDT. She has been there since the mag's inception and I have always known her to be fair and impartial. Fraternally, Michael A. Atamian Doju/Choson Do _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest