Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 02:59:49 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #273 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Kukkiwon Search (David P. Zapencki) 2. Re: Kukkiwon Search (Ray) 3. To-Shin-DO (RICHARD VIITALA) 4. Rainy morning, 56 years ago today (Ray) 5. Re:The need for instant verification of kukkiwon dan (sidtkd@aol.com) 6. RE: History of Hapkido (Howard Spivey) 7. Re: Origin of Hapkido (jthhapkido@alltel.net) 8. RE: Kukkiwon Search (Thomas Gordon) 9. Re: Kukkiwon Search (Ray) 10. Re: Master Dan regarding decals and tournaments (masterm1) 11. Re: Kukkiwon Search (masterm1) 12. RE: Kukkiwon Search (Thomas Gordon) 13. RE: Kukkiwon Search (Thomas Gordon) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank, I think perhaps we are jumping off the paranoia cliff in this instance. No one is asking for their Social Security number and Mother's maiden name. They need not even supply the person's Kukkiwon number, a simple yes or no as to the status of their Dan would be sufficient, and perhaps their Dan level. As it is, the system gives the continued appearance of secrecy and misdirection that folks have grown accustomed to from the Korean good ole boy club, and it only furthers the ambitions of those who would commit fraud, as it leaves them immune to a credential check. The public needs to have an open and honest vehicle, by which they can simply confirm an instructors Dan before investing their time, effort and hard earned cash with them. FWIW, Dave -----Original Message----- From: Frank Clay [mailto:frankclay@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:23 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search David, They can't. When you consider that there are probably hundreds of people with the same name, it makes sense that they'd add a new key to assure data integrity. In short, they are asking for something to make sure they have the right person. Not only that, they also want to make sure that people who are requesting the information have a valid need. While we may think that we should have general access, think of the ramifications. You could be helping someone steal someone else's identity. I think its better that they do not simply make a name query available. Truth be known, I think that they should have a web form that requires a reason as to why you want the information and captures your IP. That may help mitigate risk but it certainly will not absolve it. f. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I think perhaps we are jumping off the paranoia cliff in this instance. No > one is asking for their Social Security number and Mother's maiden name. > They need not even supply the person's Kukkiwon number, a simple yes or no > as to the status of their Dan would be sufficient, and perhaps their Dan > level. As it is, the system gives the continued appearance of secrecy and > misdirection that folks have grown accustomed to from the Korean good ole > boy club, and it only furthers the ambitions of those who would commit > fraud, as it leaves them immune to a credential check. The public needs to > have an open and honest vehicle, by which they can simply confirm an > instructors Dan before investing their time, effort and hard earned cash > with them. I believe this started with a post that only a name should be sufficient to search. That would obviously not work very well, e.g. how many people named "Frank Clay" might show up in a database of millions of Dan holders? Ok, even thousands upon thousands of American dan holders? Does any other art/org with a large # of dans have such a lookup? I'm just asking, I do not know the answer to that... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "RICHARD VIITALA" To: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:34:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] To-Shin-DO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am a martial artist fo the style of To-Shin-Do..Not to beconfused with the To-Shin-Do Ninjitsu style..I started studing this style in 1996 and ontained my black belt in 1999..My instructor was Seth Roberts..I am looking for and information on this style which was founded by MAster Siun To..He movied to Maine from Korean and as my old insrtuctor had said died there many years ago..Any assistance would be greatly thanks. Rich Viitala --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Rainy morning, 56 years ago today Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On a rainy Sunday morning, at 4 AM, 56 years ago today the Korean War begins when North Korea streams across the 38th parallel with 135,000 troops. Frequently just called just "6:25" in Korea. Also called Hanguk Jeonjaeng. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:36:45 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:The need for instant verification of kukkiwon dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Frank, If this were 20 years ago, we wouldn't be discussing the need to verify dan status. We assumed anyone that claimed dan had it. But what do we have today? In New York City alone, I can bring you to the doorstep of at least 7 so-called masters that claim dan staus and don't have it with the kukkiwon. Four of those seven have been ripping off students for years. One guy recently promoted 30 black belts, took kukkiwon fees and never delivered. There is little danger of identity theft if all you are giving is a birthdate. Personally, I feel all kukkiwon dan holders names should be on a website by country for world wide access. Maybe some would think this is an invasion of privacy as public cameras are deemed to be, but this is an ugly world with thieves abounding. Daylight stops thievery! Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:59:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: History of Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From the link posted by John Chambers: "It should be noted, that the modern day art of Hapkido, is a spin-off of the original art of Yusool. Although earlier forms of self-defense referred to as Yusool existed, one of the influential masters & revivers of Korean Yusool was; Choi Yong Sool. Born in 1904, he traveled to Japan at a young age and studied; Dai Dong Ryu Yu-Sool under master Takeda Sokaku. Choi Yong Sool later taught Yusool to; Soh Bok Sub, a Yudo Black Belt expert. Years later, (1940's), Soh Bok Sub made a number of changes in the original system of Yusool and called his new system; Yu Kwon Sool." This is misleading at best. Choi didn't voluntary "travel" to Japan to study Daito Ryu. He was taken by a Japanese family, bounced around some and ended up in the tutelage of some Japanese Aikijujutsu master. Choi always maintained that he studied for about thirty years under Takeda, but it is well known that there is no documentation in any of Takeda's records that confirm this (it is also well known that Takeda kept meticulous records of his students). This story has been beaten to death for years on numerous internet discussion forums, without resolution. Also, I am not aware of any reliable evidence that Choi studied any martial art in Korea after his repatriation. He told his closest students that he taught what he had learned in Japan, and that he taught it as faithfully as he could, in order to honor his teacher (who, again, he always said was Sokaku Takeda). Whatever the source of Choi's original art is, it is a sopisticated, aiki-based art that clearly derives from some Japanese Aikijujutsu system. It has undeniable and close parallels to Daito Ryu, but it also differs in fundamental respects. The questions of just who taught Choi in Japan, and exactly what he learned, are very intriguing, but they may never be answered conclusively. btw, just so nobody thinks I'm one of those JMA people who delights in bringing up these inconvenient facts and asking for proof of Choi's story, I am a student of a very old form of Hapkido that is based in the Jungkikwan in Daegu, and is headed by one of Choi's closest direct students (GM Lim Hyun Soo). Jungki Hapkido is based strictly on the art that Choi himself taught to GM Lim. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: To: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:35:16 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Origin of Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John Chambers wrote: > Response to hapkido question by Jye Nigma: > Read the Yusool article in the section titled: "Professor's Corner" under: > www.martialartsusa.com > I believe this will answer your question about the hapkido start-up! Ha! Thanks for the humor. That is almost as good as the "Hapkido was the Royal Court martial art" story. (I did enjoy that author's comment about how his art has the toughest requirements for black belt.) It is interesting how much "nationalistic slant" and marketing imperatives have changed the history of hapkido. As part of my black belt requirements, I wrote a paper (like many people do). The focus of my paper, was the obscured history of Hapkido. Looking back at it, I _really_ need to rewrite it---but nonetheless, it does discuss many of the common "revisions" that have occurred with regard to hapkido history. In addition, it discusses what aspects of the history that we actually know (as fact) directly. For those interested, go to http://hapkido.4t.com and click on the "History Notes" link on the left. Remember---it isn't written very well, so don't give me attitude about stylistic problems, k? And if you don't like it or disagree with it, feel free to ignore it. :) Thomas H. Nebraska Hapkido Association hapkido.4t.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:40:39 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Has anyone got it to work? I know a few KKW dahn holders and I can't get it to work no matter how I type in the name and birthday. If you got it to work, please give the sequence of the name (Last, First M or Last First M) and date shows YYMMDD thinking January 15, 1965 would look like 650115? Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Has anyone got it to work? I know a few KKW dahn holders and I can't > get it to work no matter how I type in the name and birthday. > > If you got it to work, please give the sequence of the name (Last, First > M or Last First M) and date shows YYMMDD thinking January 15, 1965 would > look like 650115? I have only been able to get it to work on myself and some former students who I knew should be in there. e.g. for me I entered AMERICAN (code = 101, after clicking on the green "S", Ray Terry, and my birthdate in YYMMDD format and this was returned: Name Current Poom/Dan Poom/Dan No. Date of Issuance RAY TERRY 5 Dan 0501xxxx 2006-02-05 Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "masterm1" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Dan regarding decals and tournaments Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:53:15 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Mr. Scholten Good article please write a book and put together an accompanying DVD on the subject I'll buy it. MasterM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Scholten" To: Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:47 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan regarding decals and tournaments > To the guy looking for Decals and stickers, you need to go online to Ask > Jeeves and ask for Decals ands Stickers you will find pages of companies > that do that. > > > > Let me know if you are successful if not I will go online and find several > links for you and put them on the digest to just click on. > > > > Regarding tournaments, My main reason I want students to compete once or > twice a year is to simulate stress and increase conditioning that will help > in self defense by being calmer and better shape than your adversary but > sport technique has nothing to do with self defense and frankly I look for > other reasons for my students such as learning, exposure to other styles > cultural exchange but I could care less about nationals or Olympics now, > what does that benefit a kid from a village especially a cost of $thousands > to go. I want people to learn about doing their best is its own reward and > especially competing against someone much better than you. I just had two > students because of division grouping wound up against some people with > twice the experience and out weighed them by 4olbs, they didn't choke and > didn't back off and only lost by two points it was good experience. Too much > tournament we get to pick and choose who we fight on the street you get what > you get better learn how survive at a disadvantage. > > > > Regarding injuries to knees, its amazing how many MA instructors are not > qualified physical conditioning experts. Every age group must have its own > designed work out and then every person coming in the door must be screened > for their personal health profile so you don't make a mistake and have them > doe something that their body is not ready for or never will be able to do. > > > > I just returned from my home association and watched some guy teaching a > noon class and first I was enthused to see so many colored belts and white > belts over 40, 50 and 60 and then I watched the instructor tortchure them > for 60 minutes. Lousy warm up and stretching in fact he had no idea what he > was doing except to show them what he could do. He had them jumping around > doing stuff that was for 18 year olds its going to be a miracle if any of > them survive to brown belt. Most will just train till they have a permanent > injury and then quit. Worst of all none of them was learning a single good > self defense skill up to red belts and all their kicks and blocks were bad > useless. People over 40 have to be trained differently and the whole range > of what they do needs to be geared towards health and what will work to be > used in real self defense situations. High kicks are complete bull and every > thing needs to be low impact. Hard snapping air kicks with out resistance > repeatedly has so many negative health impacts to people over 40 you could > write a book. I really wanted to chew this guy out but not my Do Jang and > not my back yard. > > > > Work outs for older people need to have 40 minutes of stretching, breathing > and lower lumbar strengthening plus all major joints and cartlidge and > ligaments. Stretching needs to be done correctly and nothing that over > compresses the disks in your back. I wonder if anyone out there even knows > or understands that stretching in the morning is different than evening due > to less water in the pads of your discs. Since your pads are thicker in the > morning when you first get up hence you are actually taller mornings, > shorter in the evenings, if you take you spine past neutral to negative > reverse you can pinch or agitate nerves much more severely in the morning > than evening. > > > > I hate to say it but the insurance companies need to start looking at not > insuring any Do Jang's or instructors that have not passed or completed a > national certification test in physical conditioning or therapy. Everybody > runs around all afraid or trying to control injuries that result in law > suites regarding somebody getting kicked or punched and the student try's to > prove negligence on the part of the Do Jang and instructor, my GM included > but the amount of people getting normal sports injuries due to improper > training is far lager I hope the ambulance chaser's (Lawyers don't catch on) > > > > All these guys making lots of money must be doing it right or haven't been > caught yet???? > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "masterm1" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:04:21 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Master Gordon It worked fine for me. I just tried it. By the way how was your trip to Korea great place to visit. I love it. Good Luck MasterM1@cox.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search > Has anyone got it to work? I know a few KKW dahn holders and I can't > get it to work no matter how I type in the name and birthday. > > If you got it to work, please give the sequence of the name (Last, First > M or Last First M) and date shows YYMMDD thinking January 15, 1965 would > look like 650115? > > Thomas Gordon > Florida > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 22:09:23 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Korea was a great time. Thanks for asking. Truth of the matter, a lot of the success is based on the people in charge of events. With that said, we had a blast thanks to Grandmaster Timmerman of NKMAA and Grandmaster Seo, Mrs. Sara Seo, and the other folks of World KidoHae Federation. Very, very gracious hosts and we're looking forward to going again in 2008. Thomas Gordon Florida -----Original Message----- From: masterm1 [mailto:masterm1@cox.net] Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 2:04 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Hi Master Gordon It worked fine for me. I just tried it. By the way how was your trip to Korea great place to visit. I love it. Good Luck MasterM1@cox.net --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 22:09:47 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks! I finally got it to work using first name then last name like you said. Thomas Gordon Florida -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 1:54 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search I have only been able to get it to work on myself and some former students who I knew should be in there. e.g. for me I entered AMERICAN (code = 101, after clicking on the green "S", Ray Terry, and my birthdate in YYMMDD format and this was returned: Name Current Poom/Dan Poom/Dan No. Date of Issuance RAY TERRY 5 Dan 0501xxxx 2006-02-05 Ray Terry --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest