Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:41:18 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #274 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Paranoia (Frank Clay) 2. Re: Checking dan status (sidtkd@aol.com) 3. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #273 - Dan Lookup (Foxfiremd@aol.com) 4. Taekwondo Festival to kick off in Jeonju (The_Dojang) 5. Re: The chubby one (ISA Headquarters) 6. RE: Paranoia (David P. Zapencki) 7. Kukkiwon lookup (Dennis McHenry) 8. RE: Kukkiwon , you don't always see what you get (Mark Seidel) 9. Re: Kukkiwon , you don't always see what you get (Ray) 10. (no subject) (Gordon) 11. Ban the UFC (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 12. Re: Re: Checking dan status (Steven Berkowitz) 13. new yudanja (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 14. Re: Kukkiwon Search (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 15. RE: Kukkiwon , you don't always see what you get (Thomas Gordon) 16. Re: new yudanja (Ray) 17. Re: Re: Checking dan status (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 07:18:33 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Paranoia Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dave, I really don't think so. My wife has had her identity compromised. Further, I conduct penetration studies and security testing as a part of my daily job. There is nothing paranoid about it. It comes from unfortunate experience. All you need to have your identify stolen is one loose item and it cascades from there. Watch the news. It happens all the time. The FBI just released a statement a few weeks ago saying that there is no way to fully protect you but minimizing available information about yourself will help mitigate risk. Frank --__--__-- Message: 2 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:57:13 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Checking dan status Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Being a low tech kind of guy, I e-mailed Michelle George at USA Taekwondo with the name and birthdate of the suspected false master. The turn-around was one day. Regrettably my suspicions were confirmed and the master in question does not hold a kukkiwon. That was the easy part. What to do with the information is a whole other matter. Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Foxfiremd@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:59:11 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #273 - Dan Lookup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/26/2006 6:16:05 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: If you got it to work, please give the sequence of the name (Last, First M or Last First M) and date shows YYMMDD thinking January 15, 1965 would look like 650115? That is correct for the date. The name must be exactly as printed on the Kukkiwon certificate. Any difference at all will fault it out. I've pulled up several. Mike --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:32:45 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo Festival to kick off in Jeonju Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekwondo Festival to kick off in Jeonju The Korea Herald About 1,400 taekwondo practitioners, fans and officials from 45 countries have gathered in Jeonju, North Jeolla Province, to participate in an international taekwondo festival and competition, organizers said yesterday. The 8th World Taekwondo Festival and Korea Classic Open 2006 will open today for a four-day run at Jeonju Gymnasium. "At the festival, people can enjoy stimulating modern taekwondo competition alongside a variety of cultural events," said an organizing committee spokesman. In addition to the competitions among black belt holders, the festival includes displays such as block-breaking, turns and jumping kicks, and taekwondo demonstrations by mothers and grandmothers. Organizing committee chairman Oh Oscar said this year's festival is especially significant as it coincides with the celebration of the establishment of the Muju Taekwondo Park in North Jeolla Province. "This nonpolitical and noncommercial festival under the slogan of 'We are One thru Taekwondo' is a genuine sports event where taekwondo lovers of the whole world become one family," he said. The annual festival started in 1998 with the aim of promoting the Korean traditional martial art and training youths to help them become good global citizens. Last year, the festival was held in Taiwan, for the first time in overseas. By Shin Yong-bae 2006.06.27 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:44:07 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The chubby one Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a note about the chubby one down in Florida: Hackworth is working for Y.K. Kim now for Amerinational Services. Respectfully, George I. Petrotta ISA Director www.sungjado.org/ isahdq@sc.rr.com -- ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 6182 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Paranoia Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:30:05 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I hear ya, unfortunately, the VA recently put my info out there... I bet along with many other list members... -----Original Message----- From: Frank Clay [mailto:frankclay@msn.com] Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 6:19 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Paranoia Dave, I really don't think so. My wife has had her identity compromised. Further, I conduct penetration studies and security testing as a part of my daily job. There is nothing paranoid about it. It comes from unfortunate experience. All you need to have your identify stolen is one loose item and it cascades from there. Watch the news. It happens all the time. The FBI just released a statement a few weeks ago saying that there is no way to fully protect you but minimizing available information about yourself will help mitigate risk. Frank _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:26:51 -0500 From: "Dennis McHenry" To: "Dojang Digest" Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon lookup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I had a hard time finding mine - the name has to be "exactly" as it appears on the cert, including the period behind the middle initial if you included it. Mac --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon , you don't always see what you get Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:30:13 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gentleman, What you see on a Kukkiwon website about someone's Dan level does not confirm that they are a good teacher it only confirms that the paperwork and money have reached Korea. Kukkiwon depends on the integrity of the sending Master that the applicant met the qualifications with the exception of 7-10th Dan which must be tested at the Kukkiwon. We have all heard stories of people buying Kukkiwons without ever testing. I have seen far too many people test and receive Kukkiwons that were below par. Additionally there are many other organizations that issue legitimate rank. Consequently one should not judge a school and it's staff solely on the processions of Kukkiwon's, Gm West's repeatedly tells his masters, be careful who you promote as BB because they represent who you are as a teacher. Mark -----Original Message----- From: David P. Zapencki [mailto:taekwondo@wi.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:18 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Frank, I think perhaps we are jumping off the paranoia cliff in this instance. No one is asking for their Social Security number and Mother's maiden name. They need not even supply the person's Kukkiwon number, a simple yes or no as to the status of their Dan would be sufficient, and perhaps their Dan level. As it is, the system gives the continued appearance of secrecy and misdirection that folks have grown accustomed to from the Korean good ole boy club, and it only furthers the ambitions of those who would commit fraud, as it leaves them immune to a credential check. The public needs to have an open and honest vehicle, by which they can simply confirm an instructors Dan before investing their time, effort and hard earned cash with them. FWIW, Dave -----Original Message----- From: Frank Clay [mailto:frankclay@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:23 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search David, They can't. When you consider that there are probably hundreds of people with the same name, it makes sense that they'd add a new key to assure data integrity. In short, they are asking for something to make sure they have the right person. Not only that, they also want to make sure that people who are requesting the information have a valid need. While we may think that we should have general access, think of the ramifications. You could be helping someone steal someone else's identity. I think its better that they do not simply make a name query available. Truth be known, I think that they should have a web form that requires a reason as to why you want the information and captures your IP. That may help mitigate risk but it certainly will not absolve it. f. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon , you don't always see what you get To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > What you see on a Kukkiwon website about someone's Dan level does not > confirm that they are a good teacher... True, very true. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:20:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry wrote: <> What you see on a Kukkiwon website about someone's Dan level does not <> <> confirm that they are a good teacher...<> >True, very true.< And conversely, there are plenty of good teachers and "players" without Kuk Ki Won certs. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:57:28 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Ban the UFC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank Clay wrote: >I've been watching this thread a bit and I have to say that I disagree. Maybe there are concussions that come out of it but these people know going into it what the risks are. There are waivers and other documents that must be signed. Once you start regulating one thing, where will it stop? It could easily move to everything else. What about the fatalities that have taken place in WTF style tournaments? They are rare, but they have happened... do we bad TKD? Or when people get accidentally drilled by baseballs, do we ban baseball? I think I come down on the other side of this question. The UFC reminds me a lot of bare-knuckle boxing in the 1800s. That sort of boxing was illegal and boxing itself did not become accepted as a legal sport until it was regulated. Boxing in the colleges of this country was common up to the 1960s, when a ring death ended it for everyone. Not only is there (1) the safety issue, and (2) the illegality of mutual combat, but also (3) the cultural response to the UFC. I think ultimately the UFC will kill a lot of interest in the martial arts, particularly the markets established after 1980 among women and children. Yoga is filling that gap. The traditional martial arts have gotten a good dose of salts, and the UFC was good for a technical reality check, but in the long term I think the market as a whole will suffer greatly. >Life is an inherently risky exercise. I don't think the answer lies in regulating everything. Not that I'm a follower of libertarianism but there comes a point when we the people must accept responsibility for our actions instead of pushing them off on some faceless body somewhere. I don't know Frank. I kind of like living in a society with laws that reinforce that personal responsibility. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Checking dan status Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:33:57 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Old Days".... - we used to get 2-3-4 area dans, wander into the school quietly, stand against the wall till the end of class, then tell him we needed to discuss the issue. At the discussion, he was asked to make the info public himself, before we would. If he refused or didn't do it, we did. Generrally, when that happened they left town real soon after... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 5:57 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Checking dan status > Being a low tech kind of guy, I e-mailed Michelle George at USA Taekwondo > with the name and birthdate of the suspected false master. The turn-around was > one day. Regrettably my suspicions were confirmed and the master in question > does not hold a kukkiwon. That was the easy part. What to do with the > information is a whole other matter. > > > Sid Rubinfeld > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.4/375 - Release Date: 6/25/2006 --__--__-- Message: 13 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:18:58 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] new yudanja Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hi folks, i'd like to publicly congratulate mrs. christina roberts and ms. kathy freeman. they were presented their hard earned first dans this weekend. five years of blood sweat and tears, culminating in a two day testing, including an overnighter with some night training, and theyve certainly earned their rank. congratulations, ladies. i'm so very proud of you. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 14 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:30:39 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kukkiwon Search Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/26/2006 6:13:43 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: If you got it to work, please give the sequence of the name (Last, First M or Last First M) and date shows YYMMDD thinking January 15, 1965 would look like 650115? ----------------------------- i got it to work. took me a minute to realize the format of the DOB, which you also have figured out. nationality: american name: melinda beth kidder dob: 701023 (october 23rd, 1970) good luck! melinda :) Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon , you don't always see what you get Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:54:56 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "What you see on a Kukkiwon website about someone's Dan level does not confirm that they are a good teacher it only confirms that the paperwork and money have reached Korea." Absolutely. And people claiming KKW status without KKW valid certification will be (A) legit martial artists that got ripped off -OR- (B) frauds. Those in the "A" column will now know. Hopefully, they'll find out before their competitor or student does. Those in the "B" column will figure out a way to lie about it and try to claim they belong in the "A" column. Liars are rarely dissuaded...just redirected. Good thing is, they'll have to take down their bogus KKW claims. There will be little excuses if they'd "processed KKW certs" for years only to find out now they're a fraud. Frankly, I wish all organizations did this. And also show the instructor that signed off on it. I think it should be searchable in a manner easier than KKW has made it. But yea, it's a start! :) Kukkiwon offers a certification process just like most all organizations. Fact is, the bigger the organization, the less likely the processor will be in a position of authority AND the more likely it'll be a faceless transaction. Take a smaller organization and you'll likely find the grandmaster process all paperwork and they've likely trained the people they are certifying. For what it's worth. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 16 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] new yudanja To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > i'd like to publicly congratulate mrs. christina roberts and ms. kathy > freeman. > they were presented their hard earned first dans this weekend. In case they are reading this... Congrats! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:30:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Checking dan status To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Start a website which holds a searchable database for registered certification holders. Jye sidtkd@aol.com wrote: That was the easy part. What to do with the information is a whole other matter. Sid Rubinfeld _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest