Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 03:01:45 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #277 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Blackbelt (Bob Banham) 2. RE: Ban the UFC (michael tomlinson) 3. Re:Time in rank (sidtkd@aol.com) 4. Hackworth (Master Lugo) 5. RE: Black Belt in Less Than A Year (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 6. Re: New Yudanja (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 7. Master Rich Hodder Seminar in West Virginia (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 8. aquiring dan rank (burnniemfrazier@aol.com) 9. Chubby GM wannabe (Ray) 10. RE: Re:Time in rank (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Bob Banham" To: Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:15:45 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Blackbelt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I received my WTF 1st dan in 197? (not as far back as some of you guys, I know!) I was told that now I could wear a black belt I had now to learn to be a blackbelt. This would take me until I was ready to test for 2nd dan and so the process would begin again. It is a philosophy we still maintain at Chilsong today. Bob --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Ban the UFC Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 20:36:52 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net the big Stovall writes: >>Culturally, we have bigger problems than the UFC. Consumerism is eating the planet alive, drug use is rampant, and half the country is on the verge of a diabetic coma...and people scream against the UFC. I don't get it.<< Damn bro I got to totally agree with you on this.... >>The one criticism I will lay at the feet of Dana White is the way in which the sport is marketed. I like hot chicks as much as the next guy, but the way sex and skin are being prepackaged with the sport is a little much (and insulting to my intelligence). Have you seen the new Xyience commercial that they've been running constantly during the TUF finale? I've seen German porn that showed less T&A...GEEZ!!!<< I too know that we are being pandered to with those adds but Hell I really like those shorts that girl is wearing!!! When she comes out of the pool......whew hooo.....yeah baby....... would I ever buy any xyience product??? No not at all but sometimes TEVO ain't so bad....LOL... IMHO the UFC and mixed martial arts stuff has helped to save martial arts and I bet some of you have got a few extra students from the stuff being on TV....let them fight and beat the hell out of each other....we are Americans...which in my opinion means "new Romans"....let's face it...we like aggression and violence...plain and simple...don't run from it...watch it...control it...and embrace it...we are what we are....hell I'm gonna get off here and go lift weights...hit my heavy bag for a break and then play my drums for a cool down.....LONG LIVE AMERICA AND CONTROLLED VIOLENCE.... Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 3 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:52:28 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Time in rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here's my two cents. In addition to tkd I'm a bodybuilder. Does anyone think that lifting 10 lbs 30 times is the same as lifting 100lbs 3 times??? No, of course not. In fact, martial arts to become a part of muscle memory, instinct, balance, coordination, fast reflex and good execution MUST be practiced frequently...at least 4 times a week. To get a black belt in one year sounds preposterous for most people but we have all seen students walk through our doors as white belts with extraordinary physical skills and the ability to learn martial arts quickly. My sense is this...establish a predictable and discernable skill level and hold students to it. One year for the rare student 3-4 years for most. If you keep students too long at a belt you will loose students quickly. So... we all have to find a practical and ethical balance. Sid --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: 27 Jun 2006 21:42:35 -0000 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Master Lugo" Subject: [The_Dojang] Hackworth Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Easy for you to say sine your not a customer of AmeriNational, I wonder if you would feel the same if that was the case. I for one do not want him handling my schools account, as a customer I can cancel or move my account if I find that he can access my files. When I go down to FL in Nov. I wonder if he will have the same tone of voice in a past email towards me. From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:08:02 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hackworth Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If Hackworth is working for AmeriNational what does it matter? Irrespective of his past, he does have the right to make a living. I'd say leave him alone. At some point, pursuing him will cross over into criminal charges for someone and likely not for him. I think a wait and see attitude is probably the best approach. Remember none of us want to cross over the line and be seen as harassing him. That would diminish our credibility and harm our cause of trying to protect the innocent. I'm sure some of my esteemed colleagues still involved in law enforcement or who are advocates can provide more information. Frank --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:08:19 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Black Belt in Less Than A Year Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jay said: "What I mean is that basically I've been told that ahaving a BB simply means that you can perform all the techniques of the art." I BIGTIME disagree with that one! There are numerous techniques within our Dan Hyungs that Gup students have never seen. Even at 4th Dan I have lots and lots of techniques to learn. Jay also said: "Now, when I trained with an American teacher versus a Korean teacher, I got the impression that what was excpected as far as learning a technique was a lot different. The Korean seemed of the opinion that if I could do the technique, that was good enough, time to learn something else. So my belts preogressed faster but my learning was just the same. Whereas the American instructor made me have a much higher level of proficiency in a technique before promoting me." That reminds me when I was in Korea, our master had the whole platoon line up behind him for our very first class. All but 3 of us had no martial arts experience. He then leaped like a deer into the air and did a jumping front kick to the bottom of the basketball backboard! He then turned to all of us and barked out "Ok, DO!" His point? Learn the hard techniques now, you will have your whole life to master it. So, I do agree with Jay's comment on that one. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:13:08 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: New Yudanja Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Congratulations to Mrs. Christina Roberts and Ms. Kathy Freeman on your new rank. You have a great instructor. (Don't forget to take her out for a cold one from time to time...brownie points...:)) James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:26:58 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Rich Hodder Seminar in West Virginia Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Rich Hodder, 8th Dan and Tae Kwon Do program director for the USKMAF, will be at my school in Lewisburg, WV on the weekend of October 13 - 15, 2006, to conduct a promotional exam, children's TKD/Hapkido seminar and an adult's TKD/Hapkido seminar. The cost of the seminars have not yet been determined. Of course the more folks that I hear from that will attend, the lower the cost. Either way it will be extremely affordable for all. There are several very nice hotels and motels in the immediate area for accomodations. I will be glad to supply anyone with that info. We are located high in the Allegheny mountains in Southeast WV between Charleston, WV and Roanoke, VA. Both cities are 90 minute drives. Please feel free to pass this information along to any school owners you may know in our part of the country if you yourself cannot attend. I host Master Hodder every year and it is a treat to have him come and wear our asses out! Please email me at gtkda@ntelos.net or call 304-667-7741 for more information. Thank you. James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy Lewisburg, WV www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:20:52 -0400 From: burnniemfrazier@aol.com To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] aquiring dan rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In my school, it normally takes approx. 4 years to reach BB status. However, I have seen BBs who trained 4 or more years and are still terrible. I have trained with students that have trained a year and had understanding of techniques and fighting abilities equal to most BBs. I believe that some people just have natural abilities that enable them to perform and catch on quicker than others. There are many students who train for years that will never perform as great as others. I think if someone has natural talent and a willingness to practice they could possibly rank in a year or so but, not in my class or most of the instructor's classes that I know of. In Japan, 1st, 2nd and 3rd dans are considered competitors and only asistant instructors or advanced students at 4th and 5th and then Teacher at 6th dan. I believe that in Korea, Japan etc... they don't put as much demand in quanity or quality of techniques as we do here in the US at lower ranks. Everyone here thinks if you attain a BB, you are a master, so most instructors put a hugh standard on the 1st dan rank, this is why it takes so long over here to reach dan rank than in Korea or Japan. Just my two cents. Shihan mike ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Chubby GM wannabe Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Easy for you to say sine your not a customer of AmeriNational, I wonder > if you would feel the same if that was the case. I for one do not want > him handling my schools account, as a customer I can cancel or move my > account if I find that he can access my files. We helped TKD Times, the Kukkiwon, the KTA and the KHF see the light and understand what he was really all about. Hopefully you can do likewise with Y.K. Kim. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 23:34:05 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re:Time in rank To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In Japan, Korea, and Okinawa it is not unusual to get your 1st dan in one year, and it's been this way for years. Simply ask anyone who has been in the military and trained over there. In the US and Europe it's more like 3 to 5 years. Please note my opinion is for the US and not Europe or the UK. So, I believe the time in grade we have here in the US is based on events that go back to the 50's and 60's. Back then it was rare to see someone who was a 5th dan or higher. I believe most of the non oriental black belts who started teaching after getting their rank while they were in the US military stationed overseas. They got their rank in a year, and perhaps they stayed several years more and made 2nd or 3rd dan. But I suspect most were 1st dan. Once they started to teach they could not promote to 1st dan because they were that rank and so students would stay in lower ranks for an extended time. Once the instructor was able to move up in rank they could then promote their students to 1st dan. As they then taught, they would want their students to spend as much time in grade as they did, why should they get their rank faster than their instructor? So WE set up a system where WE would want our students to have an extended period of time before they would be able to test for 1st dan. Now we expect that everyone will take at least 3 to 5 years for 1st dan. Look back in time and by the standards we are currently setting to get to 9th dan it should take someone 35 to 40 years. But wait a minute we had guys who were "grand masters" "founders" of Tae Kwon Do who were 7th, 8th, or 9th dan back in the 60's and that was a bit over 15 to 24 years (since 1945). You know as well as I do that there was a boat load of 8th and 9th dan's by 1970 and that was only 25 years since 1945. So - it is obvious that there is a different standard - and unfortunately many times this higher standard is imposed by ourselves. Personally I think 1 year is a bit quick, but 3 to 5 is too long. Split the difference and 1.5 years to 2 is probably more reasonable if someone practices 3 to 4 times a week for at least one hour. We have set up an expectation that a 1st dan is an expert rather than simply a student who has the basic skill to begin to learn. Way back in the 60's there was an article in Black Belt magazine (I would like to find it again) that wrote about a Ju-Jitsu school in Japan who would put a black belt on a person the first day they walked in the Dojo (Dochang) saying something like "now that that is out of the way - practice hard". I rather like that attitude. Rick Clark "Arguments are extremely vulgar, for everyone in good society holds exactly the same opinion." Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest