From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net [mailto:the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:16 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #284 - 14 msgs Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Time in rank, standards and predicable outcomes (tkdsid@aol.com) 2. GM West (Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com) 3. RE: wa ki sul (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 4. Re: Time in rank give me a break! (Jay O'Connor) 5. Musings from Cebu, Philippines (Ken McDonough) 6. Re: Benko and his organizations (ISA Headquarters) 7. Re: Master Benko (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 8. Re: certificates with incorrect data (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 9. Video - mastery (Bill Newcomb) 10. sheep, wolves & sheepdogs (Gordon) 11. Re: Good Article on Violence (Jim McHie) 12. RE: Ban the UFC (Julie) 13. Re: Master Benko (John Chambers) 14. Ban the UFC (Burdick, Dakin Robert) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:55:22 -0400 From: tkdsid@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in rank, standards and predicable outcomes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There is nothing, absolutely nothing that will make dan promotions standardized without some sort of oversight from government. I know, I know, I know what the responses are. Too much government, isolated cases of government oversight that produce bad results, no one knows martial arts like we do...etc, etc, etc. However, I've seen close hand that there are schools that create rigid standards are are run by some masters with few credentials themselves and are involved in ripping off students. I would just love to take a group of masters on a tour of New York City to show you the level of corruption that exists. I know one guy who came to America with a 5th dan from Korea and two months later was the proud owner of a 9th dan kukkiwon. Fellas...gimmeee a break! Stop spinning your wheels about time in grade, standards for black belt etc. Under the present circumstance nothing will ever be accomplished without compelling masters under law to follow some rules. Until such time, we will b Sincerely, Sid ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 08:45:00 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I'm not a big violence monger and my last post was kind of tough and cheek but I really don't want to hold hands around the campfire and sing cumbuyya with a bunch of tree huggers either....that is unless I've just shot a big buck and we are grilling that bad boy and fixin to get our protein on!!" In the immortal words of the Greek philosopher Paul Simon...."Still crazy after all these years"...J. R. West www.hapkido.com I have to say I dont shoot deer ,Ive never been attacked by one ,and tree huggin hippies piss me off.Squirrels on the other hand jumping from tree to tree mocking me with their barks and waving tails ,they need to be erradicated from the earth ,kill them all let God sort em out ;). Also by the Greek Philosopher Paul Simon The sound of silencer or was it sound of silence ,either way. Toungue In Cheek TIC Kurtis --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] wa ki sul Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:12:25 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hmmm good point Jye. I'm not sure what it means either but I really am interested. I think I might just order it anyway. The pound is so strong against the dollar it wont cost that much anyway. Tasteless joke. Sorry :-) -----Original Message----- From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Sent: 29 June 2006 15:45 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] wa ki sul I would think that that is the next evolution of TKD. In my opinion, TKD should have much more fighting tactics then it does. I think it should be like if a group of people where told to see how many kicking combinations they could come up with at various ranges, in the air, on the ground and standing up, etc. TKD is supposed to be known as the kicking art, but I've seen more kicking in some kung fu styles...lol. Simple things like rolling and delivering a kick. but anyhow, I did a search for benko and found this video on 'ground fighting' http://www.itatkd.com/v-144.html not sure if this material is taken from TKD because on the video cover at the bottom it has han kuk mu do (korean kick boxing). Also, I wonder if their ground fighting consists of grappling? or kicking techinques on the ground? Jye PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk wrote: Hi every one. I am going to run a free 6 week self defence class at my local church. Myself [TKD] a friend who hold a black belt in Judo and another friend who is a high ranking LEO [SPEAR] will be running the classes. Between the 3 of us we should cover the fundaments. However I was looking on the internet and come across a man called GM Benko. Has any body else heard of him? He has a video called wa ki sul, which is translated as ground fighting. TKD ground fighting? Should I be sceptical? Regards, Peter + ************************************************************************ **** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:18:23 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Time in rank give me a break! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mark Seidel wrote: >This thread is starting to make me ill; so if a student comes to every >class, 6 days a week they could be a Master in let's say 4 years. They >no all of the forms, can break four boards, spar well and beat up 5 >guys in a bar. Now where is the time developing the mind and spirit now >that we rushed the body? > This brings up tha different issue o the role of Martial Arts in developing not just the physical , but the mental and spiritual aspects of a person, to which my own opinion is that, it really doesn't. I'm 37 yo and have only been doing MA for a little more than 2 years. I am a Christian, a husband, a father of six, a musician and a computer programmer. Those aspects of my life have shaped who I am mentally and spiritually far more than MA ever has. What I learn from practicing MA I apply to being a musician and father, but what I learn about being a programmer and husband I apply to my MA. Everything I learn in one aspect of my life changes who I am and affects everything else. My spiritual beliefs come from my Christianity and influence how I approach MA. The discpline I have to practice the same technque over and over again in MA comes from years of developing discipline I learned practicing scales over and over again for years as a musician, etc... MA gives me a chance to refine and utlitize who I am as a person, but in mental and spiritual areas, it has not made me or developed me to who I am. For example, I know that if I don't humble myself to my teacher I will not learn what he has to give me and I will not progress and excel in MA, but the humility I have as a man is what I learned and grew into as I humbled myself to my God. Sorry, not really realted to time in rank for BB or anything else, but just wanted to bring up the idea of MA relating to mental and spiritual development of a person, which I think is sometimes overstated Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 06:18:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Musings from Cebu, Philippines Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Musings from a 3rd World Country: - This is the best martial arts list on the internet - I have studied the following "arts" in the last 40 years: -- Japanese Karate= Shorei Ryu -- Tae Kwan Do -- Kuk Sool Won -- Hapkido -- Arnis/Escrima -- Boxing -- Tang So Do -- Aikido -- Muay Thai Kickboxing -- Kenpo -- Judo -- JuJitsu -- Want to study Krav Magna= a good survival martial art. A. What works for me: 1. A few joint locks. 2. Kicks to the groin, eye gouges. Kicks to the knees and lower legs. 3. Boxing skills. 4. Infighting techniques taught in Eskrima and Muay Thai. 5. A few techniques to avoid takedowns and a few techniques if taken down. B. What I like to carry with me: 1. Neck Knife with quick release chain. 2. Boot or inside the waist knife under 3 inches. 3. Concealed carry permit revolvers and automatics: Smith and Wesson .38 Liteweight Detective Special with spurless hammer; .380 automatic; 357 Ruger Security Six when out camping; Note: Insure you carry the permit. I also have a nice light weight vest that I wear with built in gun holders and knife holders. Gun wallets and pants gun holders are nice, along with a paddle holster if wearing a Jacket. 4. On occasion a nice generic wooden cane I received from the Air Force when I broke my foot in a martial arts class. Perfectly legal. 5. Nice ice scrapers in my cars. 6. A baseball bat and glove in my main car. 7. A plastic kerambit that looks like a key chain. C. What Annoys Me: 1. Pompous martial arts "specialists" selling safety and other bs but not teaching the basic street survival skills. Those who confuse think positive messages with survival. Nothing wrong with thinking with a critical, skeptical mindset. Thats the world we live in. Dale Carnegie is nice if your selling fuller brushes or other sales items. 2. Too much emphasis on forms and board breaking--a waste of time in my respectful opinion. 3. Closed minds to techniques from other martial arts that work in the real world. 4. Righteous Zen riddled Masters who would probably get they arse plowed down on Main Street when the crap goes down. D. What I like: 1. Being mean and lean. I like to be soft only after I make love to my current girlfriend. 2. Revenge is good. Revenge can be fun. Screwing with those on certain occasions who have screwed with you is a great pacifier and makes one feel spent. Makes me sleep better at night. 3. Being nice all the time sucks. Be nice to your family, friends, llover or spouse, and close ones. Oh, ok--co-workers. And, it is ok to suck up to your boss since you have to pay the bills. 4. Nothing like a 396 engine with improved cam, Muncie four speed, and posi-track in the rear. Better than sex. 5. A San Miquel beer, and a couple of nice looking Asian ladies sitting next to me and telling me lies on how handsome I am and what a good lover I am. "I love this bar." It is a simple formula that has made a good life for me... Now as Billy Batts said in Goodfellas "Go get your f...in' shoe box"= if you don't like what I wrote above. Enugh said. Back to the bar girls, bratwurst, babes, and bikinis. Oh yea, I love those purple pills. See ya. Ken McDee --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 09:43:08 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Benko and his organizations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net QUOTE: He also goes on to explain that he formed the following organizations: * World Shim Duk Kwan Hapkido AssociationT founded 1970. * International Hapkido FederationT founded 1971. UNQUOTE! I joined GM Benko's organization back in the late 70's when it was just the Midwest Taekwondo Association (MTA.) There was no mentioning at that time of the two above named organizations "World Shim Duk Kwan Hapkido Association" and "International Hapkido Federation." At the time (1978) there was just Taekwondo in GM Benko's curriculum. So, is the web site right and my recollection wrong? I'm not that senile! Respectfully, George I. Petrotta ISA Director www.sungjado.org/ isahdq@sc.rr.com -- ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 6419 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:10:20 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Benko Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/30/2006 6:29:37 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: J.R., its a bit strange that he would not mention Hapkido in a 1984 article when he had been studying Hapkido and Yu Sool since 1959; as well as leading two major organizations dedicated to Hapkido for 13 to 14 years before that article was circulated. Did you ever hear about or meet these Korean Masters during your time in Vietnam? i guess my question is why the heck do you need to found TWO hapkido organizations a year apart from one another? Lordy. rake it in, benko. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:16:39 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: certificates with incorrect data Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/30/2006 6:29:37 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: I do not intend to pay for this mishap so don't you all agree that I should be reissued all new certificates with the right data on them at NO CHARGE? --------------------------- y'know, doug... i can see youre angry. yep, you paid for your certification. yep, someone screwed up. try to remember that everyone is human, including you. my first black belt had my name misspelled. i love it. i wore it until i earned my next one and still keep it as a reminder of humility. if the training you paid for helped you learn something meaningful, thats whats important. take care, melinda :) Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 9 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bill Newcomb Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 09:48:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Video - mastery Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Some Friday humor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7PUh6mLKv4 -Bill -ATA --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:04:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] sheep, wolves & sheepdogs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. I've read that before but, with our nation's birthday on the horizon, it felt good to "recommit" my life to protecting the sheep as I read it again. Gordon (Sheepdog in training) Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:13:36 -0400 From: "Jim McHie" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Good Article on Violence Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'll reserve some of my comments regarding what I consider to be at this time a rather politically charged article, and make only this one: > The difference, > though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm > the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little > lamb will be punished and removed. What should the people who "are" the sheep do when this process fails? When such "sheep dogs" are not punished or removed? Are the sheep limited to merely commenting "Baaaaa" in regards to their situation? Jim McHie Jr. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Julie" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:23:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Ban the UFC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom Metzner wrote: >Yet in UFC, the goal is to knock your opponent senseless at which point >you feel happy, and are cheered by an audience and respected by the >other fighters. Something wrong here in my opinion. ************************** Mr. Metzner, I have not posted a response to this thread as I was simply reading and shaking my head. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however, banning an internationally recognized sport because it is "wrong" does not constitute a legitimate argument for forbidding a sport. And yes, UFC is a sport. You stated that in the UFC the "goal is to knock your opponent senseless." That is a very incorrect statement. The goal of a UFC fight (as posted on the UFC webpage): 1. Submission by: Physical tap out. Verbal tap out. 2. Technical knockout by the referee stopping the contest. 3. Decision via the scorecards I looked at the page extensively, and no where was it mentioned that the fighters' goal is to knock their opponent senseless. Yes, there are some fighters that have the machisimo attitude of "grrr-must beat other guy" however, that is not the goal of the UFC in general. If you look at the UFC webpage, you will find that there are 31 rules that these fighters must adhere to during the fights. It is the responsibility of the fighters and their corners to be sure that the fighter is still in control of his faculties and able to fight safely. If the fighter (or his corner) does not tap out (or throw in the towel) before the fighter has taken many blows that he can not defend, then that is his responsibility, and his choice. I have seen some fighters who are winning the contest essentially look to the referee to stop the fight as they know that if they continue fighting, they will cause damage to the fighter who is refusing to tap-out. Additionally, I have seen a fighter give up an arm bar that he had solid on his opponent when he knew that he was to the point of breaking the arm and the guy was not tapping. If his goal was as barbaric as you make it sound, he would have broken the arm without any hesitation. I can understand different opinions regarding different sports. There are many sports out there that I do not agree with, nor understand, but I understand that there are people that enjoy participating in the sport and others who enjoy watching it. I happen to really enjoy the UFC fights and do not agree at all with your statements about needing to ban the sport due to the violence that it promotes. ************** >My opinions of UFC fighters are also generalizations >based primarily on what I have seen on TV and what I observed of human nature. **************** And of course, everything we see on TV is the absolute truth. :) Perhaps there is a certain amount of "showboating" going on for TV that is all acting so that the sport gets more viewers for the pure entertainment value. The old WWF was certainly a perfect example of that! -- Julie H. 4th gup Hapkido Nebraska Hapkido Association --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Benko Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:03:45 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply: (James Benko) The was another Jamers Benko in the early 1960s that was head master of the Hakkoryu Jujitsu Federation in the U.S. Do you know if this was his father or relative? John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin F. Donohue" To: Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:14 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Master Benko > According to Master Benko's Website: > "Grand Master James S. Benko began learning the Korean mu do (martial > arts) > of Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, and Yu Sool in 1959 from Ki Jun Lee. Grand > Master > Lee was one of the first Korean master instructors to come to America, in > 1957, and introduce these arts in the United States. > > > While in the military Grand Master Benko became a member of the > American Special Forces, Green Berets. He spent three tours of combat > duty in Viet Nam. While serving in Viet Nam, he worked with the famous > Korean "White Horse" and "Tiger" divisions, who were known for their > bravery and aggressiveness in combat. > > While serving in Viet Nam, Grand Master Benko taught Tae Kwon Do, > Hapkido, and other Korean mu do (martial arts) to American and > Vietnamese military personnel, police, and other Green Berets. GM > Benko In Viet Nam As a Green Beret, he often worked closely with the > Vietnamese troops and people, training them in the use of weapons (see > photo to left), village defense, and hand-to-hand combat. > > It was in Viet Nam that he met two Korean martial arts masters who > would change the course of his life, Grand Master Yang Hyee and Grand > Master Won Soo Kim. All three became life-long friends who dedicated > their lives to studying and teaching the martial arts. > > Won Soo Kim was the first assistant instructor of the founder of > hapkido, Choi Yong Sul. Grand Master Kim continued to teach Grand > Master Benko, hapkido as well as Korean weapons including the Korean > "gum" (sword)." > > He also goes on to explain that he formed the following organizations: > > * World Shim Duk Kwan Hapkido AssociationT founded 1970. > * International Hapkido FederationT > founded 1971. > > J.R., its a bit strange that he would not mention Hapkido in a 1984 > article > when he had been studying Hapkido and Yu Sool since 1959; as well as > leading > two major organizations dedicated to Hapkido for 13 to 14 years before > that > article was circulated. Did you ever hear about or meet these Korean > Masters > during your time in Vietnam? > > Kevin F. Donohue > KHF New York > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: JR West [mailto:hapkido@netdoor.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:29 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Benko > > I have never met Master Benko, but I have an article written by him in > 1984 > with regards to his history and training, and he never mentions the word > "hapkido".......J. R. West www.hapkido.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard > disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:52:28 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Ban the UFC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I don't agree with everything Tom wrote on this subject originally, I seem to be a lot closer to a tree hugger than a lot of people on this list, so I'll jump in again. Michael Tomlinson writes: >the majority of these athletes lead a very specialized and controlled life Agreed, at least in terms of their physical life. The control exercised in their cognitive or spiritual life depends on the person of course. >usually the most scenical, frustrated, and condescending passive aggressive individuals are by a high percentage the masses in our society that don't have an outlet for their aggression via...physical activity.... This is the "safety valve" or "catharsis" theory of violence, which, as Tom was pointing out, has been refuted. >your example of the psychiatric patients becoming more aggressive after hitting the heavy bag has only one flaw as far as comparing them to regular society.....THEY ARE IN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL!!! LOL...which means they are not an indicator of regular society...which makes it invalid as an experiment... Well, aside from marginalizing everyone who has ever gone to a psychologist, psychiatrist and therapist (a large section of the population), I believe Tom was referring to research done outside the psychiatric hospital that was then being applied to a hospital setting. Here's one article on the subject: Brad Bushman, "Does venting anger feed or extinguish the flame? Catharsis, rumination, distraction, anger and aggressive responding," Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 28:6 (June 2002), pp. 724-731 "Does distraction or rumination work better to diffuse anger? Catharsis theory predicts that rumination works best, but empirical evidence is lacking. In this study, angered participants hit a punching bag and thought about the person who had angered them (rumination group) or thought about becoming physically fit (distraction group). After hitting the punching bag, they reported how angry they felt. Next, they were given the chance to administer loud blasts of noise to the person who had angered them. There also was a no punching bag control group. People in the rumination group felt angrier than did people in the distraction or control groups. People in the rumination group were also most aggressive, followed respectively by people in the distraction and control groups. Rumination increased rather than decreased anger and aggression. Doing nothing at all was more effective than venting anger. These results directly contradict catharsis theory." In other words, the people who obsessed about the wrong done to them were more angry than the ones who sublimated that wrong into a desire for physical fitness, which supports Michael's idea that disciplined sports practitioners are less violent. However, they are less violent because of their ability to put the offense to one side and get on with their lives. The people who did nothing at all were still less angry than those who punched the bag. The morale? If someone offends you, get over it. Don't obsess about it or take it out on a bag. Looking for literature on the therapist's side of this evidence, one of my students found this article (and the one above) for me (thanks Jason!). Check out myth #2: Eileen F. Morrison, "Toward a better understanding of violence in psychiatric settings: Debunking the myths," Archives of Psychiatric Nursing, 7:6 (Dec 1993), pp. 328-335. "Because of the risk of dealing with violent patients on a daily basis, psychiatric clinicians must keep abreast of new developments in the field and alter their practice accordingly. However, belief in outdated theories results in the continuation of some traditional practices that are minimally effective for decreasing violence. Five myths about violence are identified, and alternatives are offered to clinicians interested in changing their approach. The five myths are (1) the violent person is out of control, (2) the use of a punching bag decreases violence, (3) staff doing a good job means controlling patients, (4) unconscious staff conflicts result in aggression and violence by patients, and (5) the fearful clinician is most often assaulted." >Bottom line is that violence is not going away from human nature so I choose to learn from it and embrace it and understand it. I'm don't think we need to embrace violence to either understand it or to fight it. I do agree that human nature is essentially greedy, and that means violence in this world of limited resources. >watching the UFC is a great way for martial artists to get a chance to "see" what controlled violence looks like and study body movement and techniques. Yep, and looking at the clips on the web of people getting into actual fights and committing actual crimes will help us even more. I learned a lot from watching the UFC, and if those guys were willing to go break themselves up on tv, I could learn from it. But I also think that the UFC is not really self-defense, nor is it helping reduce violence. >my only question is why study the arts of fighting if controlled fighting offends you?? I think he was talking about the UFC, which is not really controlled fighting, is it? Judo is a combative sport that teaches one a lot about self-defense, and I don't Tom would be opposed to that. One of my favorite tournaments I ever watched was the AAU Karate Nationals -- professional refs, great sportsmanship, and excellent physical conditioning. The TKD Nationals could learn a lot from them. Also, does everyone understand that singing "Kumbayah" was an expression of solidarity against racists in the 1960s? "Kumbayah" is an old African American spiritual that means "Come by here Lord." Here's the lyrics: Come by here, my Lord, Come by here! Come by here, my Lord, Come by here! Come by here, my Lord, Come by here! Oh Lord! Come by here! Hear me crying, Lord, Come by here! Hear me crying, Lord, Come by here! Hear me crying, Lord, Come by here! Oh Lord! Come by here! Hear me singing, Lord, Come by here! Hear me singing, Lord, Come by here! Hear me singing, Lord, Come by here! Oh Lord! Come by here! Hear me praying, Lord, Come by here! Hear me praying, Lord, Come by here! Hear me praying, Lord, Come by here! Oh Lord! Come by here! Oh I need you, Lord, Come by here! Oh I need you, Lord, Come by here! Oh I need you, Lord, Come by here! Oh Lord! Come by here! So if you don't like to sing Kumbayah, is it because you are opposed to integration or is it because you are anti-God? That should keep conversation going! :) Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11.