Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 10:34:23 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #285 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.2 required=5.0 tests=AS_SEEN_ON,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: *** Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kukkiwon Search (Joseph Cheavens) 2. RE: Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #273 - Dan Lookup (Joseph Cheavens) 3. Re: Ban the UFC (William.Baldwin@ureach.com) 4. RE: Re: Checking dan status (Joseph Cheavens) 5. Martial Art SuperShow (Thomas Gordon) 6. Video clip: bunkai (Jye nigma) 7. Ban the UFC (Stovall, Craig) 8. Re: Barbaric (Beungood8@aol.com) 9. Re: learning anything from UFC (Beungood8@aol.com) 10. Re: Experts at taking money (Jye nigma) 11. Re: Time in rank give me a break! (Christopher Spiller) 12. RE: Time in rank give me a break! (Robert Martin) 13. Master Dan Incorrect Certificates and Time in Rank (Dan Scholten) 14. Banning the UFC (Chris Holmes) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 12:49:01 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Out of curiosity, I tried to look up my Dan certification and got nada. I typed my name exactly as it appears on my certificate, but nothing comes up.

Joe Cheavens

----Original Message Follows---- From: Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Search Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:54:09 -0700 (PDT) > Has anyone got it to work? I know a few KKW dahn holders and I can't > get it to work no matter how I type in the name and birthday. > > If you got it to work, please give the sequence of the name (Last, First > M or Last First M) and date shows YYMMDD thinking January 15, 1965 would > look like 650115? I have only been able to get it to work on myself and some former students who I knew should be in there. e.g. for me I entered AMERICAN (code = 101, after clicking on the green "S", Ray Terry, and my birthdate in YYMMDD format and this was returned: Name Current Poom/Dan Poom/Dan No. Date of Issuance RAY TERRY 5 Dan 05010331 2006-02-05 Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #273 - Dan Lookup Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:13:37 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ah, finally got it to work. I was leaving out the period at the end of Jr.

Joe Cheavens

----Original Message Follows---- From: Foxfiremd@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #273 - Dan Lookup Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:59:11 EDT In a message dated 6/26/2006 6:16:05 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: If you got it to work, please give the sequence of the name (Last, First M or Last First M) and date shows YYMMDD thinking January 15, 1965 would look like 650115? That is correct for the date. The name must be exactly as printed on the Kukkiwon certificate. Any difference at all will fault it out. I've pulled up several. Mike _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 22:32:39 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: William.Baldwin@ureach.com, MD-S Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ban the UFC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Re: Ban the UFC On Fri, 30 June 2006 5:07:20am in The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #283 Message: 11 From: "t.metzner1" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 06:50:33 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ban the UFC >First I was accused of generalizing. Guilty as charged. Nothing wrong with generalizing, we all do it every day. Examples - "If you want good barbecue, go to North Carolina." "All our jobs are being sent to India". "People from Texas are very friendly". My opinions of UFC fighters are also generalizations based primarily on what I have seen on TV and what I observed of human nature. No generalization is tru without exceptions, even this one. Generalizations have there place, but racism, sexism, and other evils spring from them. they should only be used when your sure of what yur doing. >Second, someone said "it has been proven throughout history that might makes right". What has been demonstrated throughout history is that might imposes will. because there cannot be law without the sword. How do you enforce a 15 yr sentence on a wife beater who thinks "the bitch had it coming" if you can't use force in his arrest? >That doesn't make it right. If so, why do we send our diplomats before we send our soldiers? cost. > Yet in UFC, the goal is to knock your opponent senseless at which point you feel happy, and are cheered by an audience and respected by the other UFC fighters. Something wrong here in my opinion. Y9u didn't see the one I did. The loser almost pulled it off at the end by getting his back and doing a body choke. How the winner got out of it, I don't know. they were *both* all smiles and shaking hands when the winner was anounced. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Checking dan status Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:10:44 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, since I can't find any of my dan certifications using the Kukkiwon search engine, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. I've tried all sorts of combinations for my name (Joe Cheavens, Joseph Cheavens, Joe Dawson Cheavens, and Joseph Dawson Chearens Jr, which is how it appears on my 3rd dan cert), but have had no luck. I've also tried entering the DOB with and without slashes.

Joe Cheavens

----Original Message Follows---- From: sidtkd@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Checking dan status Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:57:13 EDT Being a low tech kind of guy, I e-mailed Michelle George at USA Taekwondo with the name and birthdate of the suspected false master. The turn-around was one day. Regrettably my suspicions were confirmed and the master in question does not hold a kukkiwon. That was the easy part. What to do with the information is a whole other matter. Sid Rubinfeld _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:05:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Art SuperShow Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Heading out in about 5 hours to catch a flight to Vegas, NV for the SuperShow. If you're going, stop and say hello if you see me. For those I haven't met, I'll be wearing a Gordon Martial Art t-shirt most the time, I'm about 5'2" and 145lbs with dark hair and typically a smile. For you prayin types, pray for safe passage. For you non prayin types...well....maybe the prayin types will say a little something for you to. :) Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:10:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clip: bunkai Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Interesting use for rising block and lower block: http://www.justicekarate.com/Movies/PianIBunkai5FS.mpg --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:43:12 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Ban the UFC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Then let's ban it. Let's also ban everything else that could be construed as "promoting violence". Here's my list...football (Pee Wee through Professional), hockey, pick-up basketball games, wrestling, pro wrestling, steer wrestling, thumb wrestling, dodge ball, boxing, kickboxing, fencing, Braveheart, Chuck Norris movies, catfight porn, visits from my mother-in-law, free beer day at baseball games, World Cup Soccer (I would actually support this...seriously), bull riding, bull fighting, bull baiting, bull shitting (except at work...it's a necessity), Tekken, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Halo, Doom, Pac-Man (ghosts have feelings too), George Bush, Dick Cheney, hunting, hunting with Dick Cheney, brushback pitches, gangster rap, death metal, Chuck Zito, rugby, Australian Rules Football, Spike TV, Celebrity Boxing (unless there's a chance of Vanilla Ice getting pounded again), Punisher comics, Dragonball Z, Ultimate Muscle, westerns (Roy Rogers included), track & field (did you know that javelins were weapons), yo-yo's (did you know that the yo-yo is a weapon), Geraldo Rivera, gun clubs, billy clubs, guys named Billy who carry guns and clubs, beer, wine, whiskey, gin, bourbon, rum (but we're keeping Vodka by GAWD cuz you can mix that shiznit with anything), Mr. T, immigration, war, extramarital affairs, overtime at the Post Office, and finally...drum roll please...men. We're full of testosterone and we drive women crazy...and we don't pick up after ourselves...and we shoot things...and after we shoot things we eat it...and what we don't eat we turn into wall decorations...and that whole Peloponnesian War thing, I'm pretty sure men were behind that. So, sorry guys...your ass has got to GO. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:09:11 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Barbaric Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/29/2006 7:17:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: What happens if someone cut off a UFC fighter in traffic? He would probably feel justified it beating the s**t out of him because that is his frame of reference and a definition of his manhood. I suspect most of these men are not highly educated and lack the intelligence and maturity to resolve conflicts with their heads instead of their fists. UFC does not further the goals of martial arts training. If someone came to my school after watching UFC wanting to learn how to fight I would decline their business. UFC is barbaric and should be banned. Society needs fewer people with this type of mentality. He would probably be too tired from training to start any fights in traffic. I think your generalizing too much with the above statement. We share space with some MMA types and one of our group also practices in MMa and is a nice kid with a good attitude, as are most of the guys I have spoken with. I think more than a few of them have prior experience in the arts or are Martial artists. No-one forces the guys to fight and all know what can happen in the ring. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:18:09 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: learning anything from UFC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/29/2006 8:37:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: watching the UFC is a great way for martial artists to get a chance to "see" what controlled violence looks like and study body movement and techniques....if people would look at it through a mindset of studying then you can see the validity of it....personally I don't think it will ever be banned....my only question is why study the arts of fighting if controlled fighting offends you?? Whether you study martial arts for the hardcore aspects or for healthy I take the view that we can learn something from them as they can from us. With my partner , I have him do takedowns and submissions on me as it is a danger on my job as a Police Officer to end up there. I have learned a lot about working what I know against his submissions and my countering skills have gotten a lot better. I have also taken chances knowing he could submit me so I could feel what it is like to be choked and know I can defend while my aiur supply is dwindling. And you can see this on any of these UFC matches that no technique or style is the best ,it is the stradegies you employee and the right technique in the right circumstance. Maybe they take away something on respect and helping each other when they train woith us or watch us?/ --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:08:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Experts at taking money To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I strongly disagree with your explanation of a consultant. Maybe a martial arts consultant is what you're talking about. Jye dave weller wrote: Consultants are merely people who couldn't make it in their chosen fields and decided they could make more money advising others about things they really don't do well themselves. And the fact that Hackworth (who I really don't give a rat's behind about one way or another, I have no dog in that fight) is now involved in such a pursuit should come as a surprise to no one with half a brain. Dave Weller, TKD consultant _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:23:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in rank give me a break! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>This thread is starting to make me ill; so if a student comes to every class, 6 days a week they could be a Master in let's say 4 years. They no all of the forms, can break four boards, spar well and beat up 5 guys in a bar. Now where is the time developing the mind and spirit now that we rushed the body? Master Mark Seidel The Midtown Academy Martial Arts School Special Needs and Exceptional Child Specialist<< Mr. Seidel, Perhaps I am missing a post in this thread (as I wasn't reading the first few) but I am confused about your comment regarding becoming "a Master in let's say 4 years." Your posting was in reply to Mr. Martin's, in which he had laid out the rank/time guidelines for the ITF, which I reproduce below: Mr. Martin posted: > I know I'm late on the time in rank question. I've enjoyed reading > everyone's response. I found the following interesting and thought I > would share it. Major General Choi Hong Hi published this in his > encyclopedia of Teakwon-Do. > Criteria for Grade and Degree: > For first degree black belt > 1 1/2 hour per day, three days a week -- 30 months > 1 1/2 hour per day, six days per week -- 18 months > 4 hours per day, six day per week -- 12 months In other words, it's possible to achieve a first dan in 12 months *if* you spend 24 hours a week training. In my experience, it's much more common to see people putting in much less time than that (and so their time would increase). Of course, first dan hardly qualifies as being a master. Mr. Martin then said: > 1st to 2nd Dan -- 1.5 years > 2nd to 3rd Dan -- 2 years > 3rd to 4th Dan -- 3 years > 4th to 5th Dan -- 4 years > 5th to 6th Dan -- 5 years > 6th to 7th Dan -- 6 years > 7th to 8th Dan -- 7 years > If a person trains hard, does the stuff, understands what they are > doing, and can demonstrate it -- 1 year to 1st Dan isn't out of the > question. A bigpart of the question is what sort of ability the > student has and what kind of shape they are in. Ultimately, a person > could obtain 7th Dan in the ITF in under 25 years if they worked hard. Mr. Martin doesn't explicitly say so, but in the ITF you're not considered a Master until you hit 7th dan. 25 years is a lot different than 4 years and the way the ITF syllabus is set up you don't actually learn the whole system (at least pattern-wise) until you hit 6th dan. Being promoted to Master at 7th dan is, among other things, indicative that you have, in fact, knowledge of the whole system. I'd also point out that 25 years to 7th dan isn't a given. I know a gentleman who just tested for his 7th with the ITF who has been training for 35 years. Pax, Chris Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, There's always laughter and good red wine. At least I've always found it so. Benedicamus Domino! -Hilaire Belloc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 21:35:05 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Time in rank give me a break! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Seidel, Hmmm....I certainly don't see 4 years to master in my list. Master in ITF is 7th Dan. If a person trained as you say - 6 days per week - they could make first dan in 1 to 1 1/2 years. Then the real work begins. 7th dan would take another 21 1/2 years at a minimum. Robert Martin > Message: 4 > From: "Mark Seidel" > To: > Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Time in rank give me a break! > Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:11:53 -0400 > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > This thread is starting to make me ill; so if a student comes to every > class, 6 days a week they could be a Master in let's say 4 years. They no > all of the forms, can break four boards, spar well and beat up 5 guys in a > bar. Now where is the time developing the mind and spirit now that we > rushed > the body? > > Master Mark Seidel > The Midtown Academy > Martial Arts School > Special Needs and Exceptional Child Specialist > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Martin [mailto:kickerfour1999@yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:19 AM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Time in rank > > I know I'm late on the time in rank question. I've enjoyed reading > everyone's response. I found the following interesting and thought I would > share it. Major General Choi Hong Hi published this in his encyclopedia of > Teakwon-Do. > > Criteria for Grade and Degree: > > For first degree black belt > 1 1/2 hour per day, three days a week -- 30 months > 1 1/2 hour per day, six days per week -- 18 months > 4 hours per day, six day per week -- 12 months > > 1st to 2nd Dan -- 1.5 years > 2nd to 3rd Dan -- 2 years > 3rd to 4th Dan -- 3 years > 4th to 5th Dan -- 4 years > 5th to 6th Dan -- 5 years > 6th to 7th Dan -- 6 years > 7th to 8th Dan -- 7 years > > If a person trains hard, does the stuff, understands what they are doing, > and can demonstrate it -- 1 year to 1st Dan isn't out of the question. A > big > part of the question is what sort of ability the student has and what kind > of shape they are in. Ultimately, a person could obtain 7th Dan in the ITF > in under 25 years if they worked hard. > > Robert Martin > V Dan, USTF > -- ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 6639 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:38:53 -0800 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan Incorrect Certificates and Time in Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To Dug regarding your Gup Certificates; First I hope you have not approached your Master Instructor with the anger you so implied in writing or in person over such a little thing as your name or Gup Certificate. This is a good example why time in rank is needed to learn what is really important. Pieces of paper, belts, your name?? have no value. Martial Arts is more than paper, rank and punches and kicks. Martial Art is like any other Professional Trade, no Master Tradesman is going to teach what he really knows unless you prove your self by hard work, respect, patience's, and most of all loyalty until then your just a worker bee. Martial Art has inherent qualities with each style or Kwan that require time and maturity to grasp and incorporate into your whole life, personal, work and martial arts. In my day it took at least 25 years to get to Master level and there were no certificates for colored belts in fact nothing until after Deputy Black Belt a four month probation and then retest for 1st Dan. Any attitude such as yours would have been dealt with to include pain or unconsciousness, mind you nothing damaging but strong enough to make you think what have I done wrong and what am I to learn from this. This is not punishment but an attempt to teach and structure behavioral development. Some people consider themselves to big or important to take the discipline and leave, that's ok they should unfortunately because of money pressures the original art is being bastardized for decades now and we have a country full of paper tigers who's Dan certificates are as much use in their life or on the street as a rubber knife!! Some Do Jang's or Do Jo's do not care about either the mental development or the ability of their students to actually defend themselves and frankly if you cannot get along with people, keep a job, support yourself and have a good life you are defensless. This is why kick boxing or non traditional styles for money only with out indigenous native art and values fail to develop the whole person. I personally take responsibility for every student and see to it that they progress no matter how long it takes or they do not progress in rank period and anyone under me will never misuse what I teach or I will personally hunt them down what ever it takes. I would hope that your teacher or Master has not had the time or possibly missed your consideration of self importance but you should consider the following. 1. Most Master's have had to work decades to earn their rank and much of that included much self sacrifice in order for you to have the opportunity to learn from them. 2. Many Master's donate countless hours and money far beyond what they receive if anything from their students. 3. Many Master's do not have enough help in teaching or in administrative functions due to the lack of students not understanding they should be helping out of respect and a commitment to serve others. You should approach your Master with respect and humility and ask if possible you could have your certificates changed and even ask if he needs help. That would show good attitude. In Jido Kwan the main premise is the Indomitable Spirit which loosely translated means to never give up and that Survival is more important than wining. Life is not fair, tournaments are not fair, fighting on the street is not fair. Know what is important. I watched a white blond lady pull up behind two car loads of black thugs blocking both lanes where I used to live, the Thugs were talking and could care less, she started honking and swearing, one of the drivers got out walked up and blew her brains out, walked back and they finished their conversation and then drove away. Now she may have thought her need to drive that lane right now was important and that she had a right to complain but she failed to understand that her life was more important and that she was in a life threatening situation. Gup certificates mean nothing they should call them Guppies, your life and what you are learning is more important. If you can become angry of little things like paper and names then you may one day bite off more that you can chew. --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Chris Holmes" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:40:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Banning the UFC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I had to comment on Mr. Metzner's post. >Many years ago I worked as a orderly at a Psychiatric Hospital. We had to >deal >with violence on the units on a regular basis. It was common back then to >isolate escalating patients in a room with a punching bag and let them >"work >out their aggression". Then someone realized this was only making the >situation worse and in fact did nothing to control the violence. We found >other ways to deal with violent patients. Good points. I have a M. Ed. in education and a lot of post graduate work in Psychology.... running a full time martial arts school has gotten in the way of that degree. People need to learn how to properly deal with aggression. However I think that comparing the population in a psychiatric hospital to the typical mma fighter is a bit harsh. I really stuck with martial arts the first few months because I needed to go vent and let off some steam after teaching in a really bad public high school where the administration had no control over the students. This was a highly effective way for me to deal with my stress without bringing it home or back into the classroom the following day. >Similarly, in my opinion, the UFC does not "control" our violent nature as >Mr. >Tomlinson suggests- it justifies it. It promotes violence as a means of >conflict resolution and a "might makes right" mentality. This is not >beneficial to developing a peaceful society. What happens if someone cut >off a >UFC fighter in traffic? He would probably feel justified it beating the >s**t >out of him because that is his frame of reference and a definition of his >manhood. I suspect most of these men are not highly educated and lack the >intelligence and maturity to resolve conflicts with their heads instead of >their fists. A lot of UFC fighters are jerks or idiots or whatever else you wish to label them. Others such as Rich Franklin and Randy Coulture are class acts. I do think that the USA has become too politically correct. Boys are punished in elementary school for acting like boys, thus they never learn to handle themselves as young men. They get into jr high with a tremendous identity crisis and make life a living hell for their teacher and parents. A good ass kicking when deserved can do a world of good. When I was a kid I got my share butt whippings and dished out a few as well. I did learn that there was a time to talk and a time to fight. Being the smallest kid in my class until 7th grade I was certainly a target until I established a reputation as a scrapper. Martial arts developed because being a pasifist generally resulted in getting the crap beat out of you, getting your stuff stolen, or getting killed. Unfortunatly now slander is a rampant problem where in the past it was not so bad. Someone lies about you, you go tear them a new one, problem solved. Now you would be sued or possibly face prison time for settling what should be a minor problem. >UFC does not further the goals of martial arts training. If someone came >to >my school after watching UFC wanting to learn how to fight I would decline >their business. UFC is barbaric and should be banned. Society needs fewer >people with this type of mentality. > >Tom Metzner The UFC is very entertaining to a lot of people, myself being one of them. Does it help the martial arts? I don't know but I don't think it has hurt us too much. It is our job as instructors to educate the public when they come in on what martial arts is all about. Some of us do pretty well with this others I suspect are not so good at it. If the UFC brings more people to my class for the wrong reasons, that is great. Now I have big strong guys who really need the discipline that a good martial arts program can provide. I usually make a point of tapping them out really quickly on the mat and then they are more receptive to what I have to say and offer. Of course the ego maniacs don't come back and that's ok too. Oh just in case any of you are wondering. I teach my students that fighting is always the last resort, but if they have to do it they better do it well and take the person out in a hurry. I've only had a couple of kids get into fights in 4 years of teaching over 200 students total. Both times it was justified and the problem ended there. regards, Chris Holmes --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest