Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:59:28 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #293 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Master Dan reply to Josette LeBlanc (Dan Scholten) (Michael Atamian) 2. Supposed Picture of Doju Choi (Amed Hazel) 3. True Masters of the Arts (Thomas Gordon) 4. Master Dan reply to Josette LeBlanc (Stovall, Craig) 5. RE: True Masters of the Arts (Erik Brann) 6. Re: Master Dan reply to Josette LeBlanc (Josette LeBlanc) 7. RE: True Masters of the Arts (Martin VonCannon) 8. RE: True Masters of the Arts (Erik Brann) 9. Good question (Jye nigma) 10. stumbled across this (Jye nigma) 11. nice website (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Atamian" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:04:26 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan reply to Josette LeBlanc (Dan Scholten) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net BRAVO! A martial arts Master who does not teach for profit....an extremely rare breed in this day and age. I suspect that in two more generations all martial arts will be akin to McDonalds' and WalMart and the true Masters of the Arts will have long disappeared. Fraternally, Michael A. Atamian Doju/Choson Do --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:17:19 -0400 From: "Amed Hazel" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Supposed Picture of Doju Choi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone have that picture of the Japanese masters and one of them looks like it could be Dojunim Choi? If so could someone email it to me? Amed Hazel -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/384 - Release Date: 7/10/2006 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:41:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] True Masters of the Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dojunim Atamian, Okay, I'll bite, what does "teaching for profit" and losing the "true Masters of the Arts" have in common? Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:10:50 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan reply to Josette LeBlanc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Yes, a lot of incidental contact to the back of the head occurs on the ground...especially against the cage. You'll often hear the ref telling them to watch it. As far as the "Dillmanesque" pressure point strikes...I've never been sold on that stuff, and I highly doubt anyone's ability to use these types of strikes to get a trained MMA fighter off of them. Reason being... 1. Even if this stuff were for real, those spots are hard to hit and even according to the experts they must be struck with a certain amount of force and at a fairly precise angle. 2. It would be even harder to hit these while on your back and being choked out or arm barred. 3. There's a "gameness" factor here that can't be ignored. Yes, whacking certain points along the head, neck, and arms can certainly cause pain and have a demonstrable effect, but this effect is lessened when we're talking about a trained athlete in the heat of competition. Highly conditioned + highly motivated + high pain tolerance = big problem for "Five Fingers of Death" guy. The concept that you're talking about is not foreign to me in the context of grappling. Shooto has the "tsubo" concept that they use to enhance their submission opportunities. For example, grinding my elbow into the side of my opponent's neck or cheek while in side mount can make them uncomfortable enough to move and then allow me to catch something when they squirm (this was brought in by Gotch, and is heavily influenced by the Catch-as-catch-can traditions, btw). However, we're talking gross motor attacks to obvious soft areas...not precision knuckle strikes to "gall bladder 7", etc. Big difference, IMHO. However, as always I reserve the right to be completely wrong about all of this. Craig "Don't Touch My Gall Bladder" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Erik Brann" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] True Masters of the Arts Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:23:51 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am going to take a shot at this concept. "True Masters of the Arts" share their art for the art's sake. "Teaching for profit" implies a mercenary attitude towards training. It's a conceit that some martial artists have, that the for-profit teachers dilute their arts in order to make a living. I have even encountered this locally. I was involved with a quasi-traditional school that had teachers who were teaching for its own sake, their active student complement was maybe 20 active students. This school had no written curriculum, no ties with any national or international organization, was being managed by a committee of black belts who couldn't agree on even the most basic execution of a technique to the point of arguing in class over it, promotion standards were subjective, with no clear sense of who would get promoted, and there was a lack of new material for senior belts being more a repetition of the same basic techniques which a white belt learns. The prevailing attitude was of "take it or leave it". So I left, with my 4th gup, and 20 years of stubbornness in training. What's funny is that maybe 95% of students have left this school at this rank or lower out of frustration. My new school is a for profit school, but the teacher has worked to make me feel welcome, has all of the things which the other school was missing. I suppose it's a question of needs, what as a martial arts student do you need? What does the teacher need? How can teacher and student meet those needs within the frame of martial arts training? I've run across teachers that teach for profit that I would not train with, I have met teachers such as GM Rim in Baltimore who I would kill to study with full time, after the one class I spent with him. I guess there are two major axes, for profit/not for profit, and good or bad. This gives four categories. Teachers are what they are. Find a good one, and stay with them. By the way, due to a new job, I will be seeking a teacher in the Burlington Mass area, could anyone make a recommendation? Erik Brann -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Gordon [mailto:tgordon@gordonmartialarts.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:41 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] True Masters of the Arts Dojunim Atamian, Okay, I'll bite, what does "teaching for profit" and losing the "true Masters of the Arts" have in common? Thomas Gordon Florida _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:00:59 -0700 From: "Josette LeBlanc" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Dan reply to Josette LeBlanc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Dan, Thank you for sharing your experience. It is inspiring to hear what you are doing to give hope to others. I am very curious about your experience, personally and professionally, and have many question for you. I hope it is ok that I ask. Would prefer that I ask these questions via the email address that is on the website you sent? Please let me know, and I will reserve my questions for later. For now, I am in Daegu, South Korea learning Hapkido. You are correct, it would be very expensive to take lessons from you. However, some of the best lessons can be taught by the sharing of thoughts and philosophies. This might be the only classroom we have for the time being. I hope to hear from you soon. Take care and thank you, Josette On 11/07/06, Dan Scholten wrote: > > Thank you for your comments, however I doubt you could afford to train > where > I teach, I am the only Master that teaches just below the Arctic Circle, > Nome Alaska to the farthest North point on the North American Continent, > Barrow Alaska and the Bering Straits region to with in 40 miles of Russia. > I > came here in 1995 to research the native's peoples of this region and to > do > research on how Tae Kwon Do taught as a traditional native art could > affect > small closed communities when 5% or more of the population get involved. I > found out many historical and even genetic links back to Asia that both me > and my Grand Master who has traveled to Mongolia enjoyed finding. In the > course of this I discovered and fell in love with the Eskimo culture and > married. This is a hard life and not for everybody and there is much death > hear on a daily basis but also a great abundance of life as well. It is > difficult and expensive for me to get to the outside world but I travel to > Oregon at least once or twice a year when I can to train and update on > Olympic tournament rules and procedures. In the last 11 years I have never > not had a student not medal in every event they enter, but that is not > what > is important. > > > > What is important is that we proved statically that you can raise grade > point averages in village schools dramatically and that many behavior > health > cases were eliminated as well as kids who were being abused and raped > banded > together to protect themselves to the point that the village predators > were > complaining for protection themselves. The biggest thrill for me is to see > an individual who is overweight, not well or a mother of five and her > children train long enough that it changes their life and family for the > better for the rest of their life and they go on to be good family > members, > teachers and community leaders. > > > > I earn no money doing this and it has cost me a great deal even doing hard > labor daily in construction to pay for it but it has been worth. I miss > out > on a lot of stuff, my best friend is going to China to train with Dillman > for two weeks this September and he will have his pictures published in > his > fourth book. I wish I could go but it is not financially feasible. I will > have to console my self to personally training with him after he gets back > this November. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/danscholten/AMAA.html > > > > If you go to this website you will see lots of pictures of Alaska and what > life is like here. > > > > Let me know where you live and what your rank and experience is and I will > recommend a Master for you to train with > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Master Dan > > > > P.S > > > > Thanks to Craig for the UFC fighting rules, most of those I assumed > already > and did not really mean to imply eye gouging ect. But I did wonder about > small joint manipulation and some pressure points which could be struck in > my opinion legally if you know how and no contact to the back of the > head??? > > > > I have clearly seen striking to the back of the head when they are on the > ground in a clinch and it seems they use fist and elbow also I saw some > nice > submission choke outs using the opponents own arm seems like they could > defend themselves with knuckles or finger tips to liver or gall bladder > points?? These are not damaging if applied correctly but effect a quick > release or response. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > -- "Be formless... shapeless like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle; it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot; it becomes the teapot. Water can flow, and it can crash. Be water, my friend..." - Bruce Lee --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:58:29 -0700 From: Martin VonCannon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] True Masters of the Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Quoting Erik Brann : Mr. Brann, It seems, to me, you have nailed this. Excellent way of putting it. - Martin E. VonCannon Tacoma Dojang Instructor mvoncannon@akdwa.org http://tacoma.akdwa.org > I am going to take a shot at this concept. > > > I guess there are two major axes, for profit/not for profit, and good or > bad. This gives four categories. > > Teachers are what they are. Find a good one, and stay with them. > > Erik Brann --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Erik Brann" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] True Masters of the Arts Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 20:49:38 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you Sir! I love martial arts, and would love to be able to earn a living teaching. However, I would try to keep things like I was teaching for the art of it. -----Original Message----- From: Martin VonCannon [mailto:mvoncannon@akdwa.org] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 4:58 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] True Masters of the Arts Quoting Erik Brann : Mr. Brann, It seems, to me, you have nailed this. Excellent way of putting it. - Martin E. VonCannon Tacoma Dojang Instructor mvoncannon@akdwa.org http://tacoma.akdwa.org > I am going to take a shot at this concept. > > > I guess there are two major axes, for profit/not for profit, and good > or bad. This gives four categories. > > Teachers are what they are. Find a good one, and stay with them. > > Erik Brann _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 20:48:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: MartialArtsTalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Good question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is inspired from an email I got from another group: Question: what would you do if one of your best student's challenged you to a real fight because they thought they were better then you martially? Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:09:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] stumbled across this Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net pretty interesting. Wish I could do this right about now: http://www.wle-korea.com/study-taekwondo-in-korea/taekwondo.html --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:27:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] nice website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.koreanmartialarts.com/about/index2.html --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest