Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:00:45 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #296 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Master West (michael tomlinson) 2. Master Dan WTF Text book and DVD and UFC pressure points (Dan Scholten) 3. Master Dan response to Josette (Dan Scholten) 4. Re: time in grade and blood pressure (sidtkd@aol.com) 5. student challenge (Mike Donahoo) 6. Re: Supposed Picture of Doju Choi (Amed Hazel) 7. RE: student challenge (David P. Zapencki) 8. RE: student challenge (Jye nigma) 9. Picture of Choi in Japan (Howard Spivey) 10. RE: student challenge (Joseph Cheavens) 11. Forms (gtkda@ntelos.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 04:51:08 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'd like to wish Master West a speedy and happy recovery after his surgery....he is a shining example to everyone in the martial arts of how a true Master should be..... Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:54:55 -0800 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan WTF Text book and DVD and UFC pressure points Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just got the 2006 WTF Kukiwon Text Book and higher level PoomSe Forms DVD. I am very impressed with the quality of the text book and information is outstanding and a good addition to my library. The DVD is one of the best productions I have seen in years, four screen split action for full motion and other menus. Frankly I have seen many Korean DVD's over the years and found them lacking in quality of production but worse still bad forms, bad balance, bad technique nothing I wanted my students to learn from. At first look the Master and Grand Master are in great shape and are very nice to watch. There always seems to be differences from one Kwan to the next in PoomSe, I started in Moo Do Kwan but most of my life has been in Jido Kwan. The DVD takes the stance that this is the one official way to perform the forms, since this year the first world PoomSe competition is being held it will be nice in the future to be able to go the text book or DVD when training with other master's this year. I was really pleased to see a grey haired GM in great shape performing the higher black belt forms very well; I might just drop twenty pounds and cowboy up this Year!!!!!!!! UFC fighting: Regarding the comment on Dillman methods don't work I was not implying striking energetic or Diurnal energy moves for knock outs. There are three ways to agitate or energize any given point especially triple warmer or conception areas, 1 strike yes angle and accuracy is important but also complete surprise with out warning so the bodies own system does not over react and counter the effects so obviously this is not for competition or even in some self defense cases but the 2 and 3rd method, Raking or Sawing certain points in combination with joint manipulation or other strikes is very effective no matter what. What is missing is Chi force not fakery, men who have developed good Chi after 30 or more years enough to move a person with out touching them can channel that into manipulation, that coupled with years of experience in doing and applying it makes a big difference. I find that Kyusho Jitsu added to Hapkido really enhances the effect and when you take that knowledge back to your forms there are no real defensive moves everything is offensive and reversed which makes it hard to do the forms so you have to develop multiple personalities. I can do the forms for health and training, for competition or keeping one eye to the opportunity of multiple interpretations of opportunities to strike vital parts as it relates to grappling and in fact the beginning is the end and the end was actually the real beginning and each single movement has a life of its own. Some days its just nice to break apart a form if you have people you can trust and are ready for it and teach them how to relate the form to better defend themselves. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:58:38 -0800 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan response to Josette Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Josette, You may contact me at my email address any time you wish, masterdan@gci.net Also My best friend Master Rohr will be competing in Korea at the 1st World Poom Se competition this September so let me know if you are going to be able to be a spectator for that?? --__--__-- Message: 4 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:07:07 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: time in grade and blood pressure Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The kukkiwon publishes a chart wherein they specify how long it takes to move through the dans. One way to describe it is that the dan recapitulates the interval. So, a 4th dan waits 4 years to become a 5th dan and a 6th dan waits 6 years to become 7th dan etc. In fact, none of that is accurate. More than likely it either takes much longer to move through the dans or as one master in New York did, you go from 5th to 9th dan overnight with the right connections and money. By the way my blood pressure is 120/68 for those that questioned it. I'm sorry if I come on too animated at times, but just some things REALLY get me angry. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:13:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] student challenge Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My, what a tragic situation, to have a student challenge his instructor/master. I have never had this situation but it sounds like quite a few other people have. Someone hit the nail on the head yesterday when they wrote about how sad that would make them feel. As if they had failed to, or could have better conveyed the meaning of martial arts and questioning whether they really knew that student. As a teenager when I started taekwondo, my teacher, Grand Master In Shik Kim made it very clear about the use of martial arts and egos such as this. He said that the highest level of martial arts was never having to use it - to never have to raise your hands to another human being in anger or pride. The whole concept of being a black belt was to serve others in the school, your family, and the community. To use your power to help others. Not for selfish, over confident desires. In devotion to the Art Mike Donahoo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:21:02 -0400 From: "Amed Hazel" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Supposed Picture of Doju Choi To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree Ray that I don’t think its him but I wanted to show that picture to a friend. Does anyone still have it? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] student challenge Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:20:09 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I whole heartedly agree. Obviously, as a Master ages, there could come a point where a student would be physically superior merely on the levels of age and physicality. I was shocked to read that this scenario has come up for so many list members. No one I know would challenge the Master, not only out of respect for his position, but because after years of training under him, he has become like a father, or a family member. Anyone who would do such a thing is not a blackbelt no matter what they are wearing around their waist; they do not understand the meaning of it. As Mr. Donahoo pointed out, a true blackbelt is honor bound to serve his master and his community, and obligated to protect the weak if the need arises. David Zapencki -----Original Message----- My, what a tragic situation, to have a student challenge his instructor/master. I have never had this situation but it sounds like quite a few other people have. Someone hit the nail on the head yesterday when they wrote about how sad that would make them feel. As if they had failed to, or could have better conveyed the meaning of martial arts and questioning whether they really knew that student. As a teenager when I started taekwondo, my teacher, Grand Master In Shik Kim made it very clear about the use of martial arts and egos such as this. He said that the highest level of martial arts was never having to use it - to never have to raise your hands to another human being in anger or pride. The whole concept of being a black belt was to serve others in the school, your family, and the community. To use your power to help others. Not for selfish, over confident desires. In devotion to the Art Mike Donahoo --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:47:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] student challenge To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net yeah but this is nothing new. It's been around since before the world i.e, Lucifer and God. and occurs in everything ranging from business, to relationships to martial arts. It's what a good chunk of the martial art flicks were about...lol. Loving teacher teaches evil student, only the teacher had not clue the student was evil, greed, etc. There are just people out there like that. They use others until they get what they want and then show their true colors. it's sickening. Jye "David P. Zapencki" wrote: I whole heartedly agree. Obviously, as a Master ages, there could come a point where a student would be physically superior merely on the levels of age and physicality. I was shocked to read that this scenario has come up for so many list members. No one I know would challenge the Master, not only out of respect for his position, but because after years of training under him, he has become like a father, or a family member. Anyone who would do such a thing is not a blackbelt no matter what they are wearing around their waist; they do not understand the meaning of it. As Mr. Donahoo pointed out, a true blackbelt is honor bound to serve his master and his community, and obligated to protect the weak if the need arises. David Zapencki -----Original Message----- My, what a tragic situation, to have a student challenge his instructor/master. I have never had this situation but it sounds like quite a few other people have. Someone hit the nail on the head yesterday when they wrote about how sad that would make them feel. As if they had failed to, or could have better conveyed the meaning of martial arts and questioning whether they really knew that student. As a teenager when I started taekwondo, my teacher, Grand Master In Shik Kim made it very clear about the use of martial arts and egos such as this. He said that the highest level of martial arts was never having to use it - to never have to raise your hands to another human being in anger or pride. The whole concept of being a black belt was to serve others in the school, your family, and the community. To use your power to help others. Not for selfish, over confident desires. In devotion to the Art Mike Donahoo _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:23:01 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Picture of Choi in Japan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If it's the picture I'm thinkig of, it was posted on the Aikido Journal website a couple of years ago. It's a picture of Sokaku Takeda and numerous other people. One man in the front on the left looks a lot like Choi Young Sool. However, some JMA people researched the pic and seem to have proven that it was taken around 1906. Since the man in the pic who is supposedly Choi appears to be at least 35 years old, there's no way it's him (he would have been around 6 when the picture was taken). Yet another dead end in the effort to connect Choi to Takeda. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] student challenge Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:09:20 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Send him to Master Pei. Joe Cheavens --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:41:47 -0400 (EDT) From: gtkda@ntelos.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was just wondering how many of you teach the ITF hyungs at the Gup level and then the WTF poomse at the Dan level. OR visa versa... I have heard of some schools doing this and was wondering who on this list does that, or something similar, and how does it work out for you doing this? Thank you. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest