Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:00:19 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #297 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Historical challenges to the master (sidtkd@aol.com) 2. Master Dan Question (Frank Clay) 3. Master Dan time in rank (Dan Scholten) 4. ITF & WTF forms (Mike Donahoo) 5. kukkiwon reference (Mike Donahoo) 6. Re: Master Dan time in rank (John Chambers) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:55:32 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Historical challenges to the master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wayyyyyyyy back in 1964, I saw my instructor challenge his master publicly at a competition. When they agree to spar the grandmaster defeated my instructor using a vast variety of elbow techniques. The instructor apologized publicly and the grandmaster publicly forgave him. However he told my instructor to find some where else to train. This was a brazen affront and about a dozen of us left that instructor and joined the grandmaster. The instructor was never the same and passed away about 4 years ago. The grandmaster is now a 9th dan, internationally respected and admired. A very sad page for all concerned. Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:35:33 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Dan, IS the Textbook completely revamped? I guess, I'm asking if there is new information? Frank --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:15:58 -0800 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan time in rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One of the things that getting people upset with time in rank and I had this argument with my own GM is I just don't believe any kid should be 5th Dan but his come back was what you want to do they have been training since they were six years old and earned all the POOM belts so when they turn 18 it all automatically converts?? One thing there is a difference between terminology between ITF and WTF abut titles of rank. WTF is 3rd Dan is junior master 4th and 5th is Master 6th and 7th is Senior Master 8th and 9th is Grand Master and I have herd that some day there is going to be a Supreme Grand Master which I always suspected someday they would have to invent a grand Poo Baa of something since so many non Koreans are catching up in rank?? There are people out there calling them selves Grand Master at 6th and 7th Dan?? A lot of people out there go outside the WTF within there own Kwan to jump several Dan's ahead for political or competitive reasons or I have heard of SKIP DAN this is for those who have the money and connections to jump two grades like 6th to 8th ect. Consumers have a tendency to want to pay and train with the highest rank they can instead of looking at the total program and quality of teaching that is going to relate to them personally not the hype of who or what was done in the past especially as it relates to sport competition which does not relate to the largest section the average population. The waiting time from 1st Dan to 2nd was 18 to 24 months. I don't disagree with the time in rank between levels I just miss that you could not get 1st Dan no matter what until you were 18, I think the pressure to change that was financial period and create all whole new market of baby black belts. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:59:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF & WTF forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We teach Palgwes for colored belts and at black belt level we teach both sides. So a first dan would learn Koryo and Gwang Gae and so on. This system has worked for us for as long as I can remember. The children pick up the forms very well at the gup level and both children and adults alike enjoy the fact that they learn both WTF and ITF black belt forms. In devotion to the art Mike Donahoo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] kukkiwon reference Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Could you please pass along the name of that book and dvd? Also where a person could purchase it. Thank you. Mike Donahoo In devotion to the art __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Dan time in rank Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:42:14 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I must agree with Dan Scholten, when he stated that no child should be promoted to 5th Dan. I do not wish to open a can of old worms concerning children and rank, but I too had to respond. I retired two years ago after 54 years of active martial arts. I have never promoted any child (below the age of seventeen) to black belt. As Dan Scholten stated, he is concerned that one Grand Master has promoted a child to 5th Dan! If this is true, then it is a disgrace to all martial arts in my opinion. Glad I am retired and not associated with this type of disgraceful practice. John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Scholten" To: Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 2:15 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan time in rank > One of the things that getting people upset with time in rank and I had > this > argument with my own GM is I just don't believe any kid should be 5th Dan > but his come back was what you want to do they have been training since > they > were six years old and earned all the POOM belts so when they turn 18 it > all > automatically converts?? > > > > One thing there is a difference between terminology between ITF and WTF > abut > titles of rank. > > > > WTF is > > 3rd Dan is junior master > > 4th and 5th is Master > > 6th and 7th is Senior Master > > 8th and 9th is Grand Master and I have herd that some day there is going > to > be a Supreme Grand Master which I always suspected someday they would have > to invent a grand Poo Baa of something since so many non Koreans are > catching up in rank?? There are people out there calling them selves Grand > Master at 6th and 7th Dan?? > > > > A lot of people out there go outside the WTF within there own Kwan to jump > several Dan's ahead for political or competitive reasons or I have heard > of > SKIP DAN this is for those who have the money and connections to jump two > grades like 6th to 8th ect. Consumers have a tendency to want to pay and > train with the highest rank they can instead of looking at the total > program > and quality of teaching that is going to relate to them personally not the > hype of who or what was done in the past especially as it relates to sport > competition which does not relate to the largest section the average > population. > > > > The waiting time from 1st Dan to 2nd was 18 to 24 months. I don't disagree > with the time in rank between levels I just miss that you could not get > 1st > Dan no matter what until you were 18, I think the pressure to change that > was financial period and create all whole new market of baby black belts. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest