Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 03:04:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #298 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re:Baby black belts (sidtkd@aol.com) 2. Re: India??? (Jye nigma) 3. Early childhood dans (sidtkd@aol.com) 4. Video clips: thoughts on internal (Jye nigma) 5. Re: Re:Baby black belts (John Chambers) 6. 3rd Dan Rank (dave weller) 7. RE: Re:Baby black belts (Thomas Gordon) 8. News Report about Assault (Thomas Gordon) 9. Re: India??? (Joseph Cheavens) 10. Re: 3rd Dan Rank (Ray) 11. RE: kukkiwon reference (Joseph Cheavens) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:29:49 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Baby black belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Many of you have read where I refer to a New York Master as having gone from 5th to 9th dan overnight. He's one of the guys that has defrauded countless students on kukkiwon fees. Now get this....he recently i ntroduced on a local tv station one of his students that made 2nd dan. So what? Well....this 2nd dan is 8 years old!!!!! So, by the time he's 17 he'll be a 5th dan master. I think the red/black belt is the correct measure here. A student can and should reach up to 3rd poom red/black belt until he/she is 16. At that point the clock should begin and by the time he/she is 20 MAYBE 4th dan. Even that is ridiculous in nature. Sid --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:40:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] India??? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yeah I actually did a paper in college a few years back on the african martial arts and found that African arts of combat predate india. Matter of fact it's believed that Africa has the oldest records of a martial art and egypt having a complete system of martial arts from empty hand to weapons to using forts and things of that nature. But I saw somewhere that india is given credit to being the father of asian martial arts because of the spiritual connection they all share through I guess buddism. (one day I'll be able to spell that word correctly) Jye john.a.mcintosh@bt.com wrote: BongSoo wrote: "Actually, all of the above is wrong, is it not? Its pretty well established that all martial arts, especially internal styles, originated in India..." I would have to question this statement, all martial arts did not originate in India. Perhaps India had a massive influence on Asian martial arts... --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:50:10 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Early childhood dans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We've covered this issue several times, but might I suggest the following? On this site, in our endeavors in the dojang and in print elsewhere, we speak about the 5 tenents of taekwondo. Why don't we create promotional gates for all our students where we require demonstration of courtesy, integrity, self-preservation, indominable spirit and self-control? Wouldn't perhaps a written requirement or the Sabunims judgement on the attainment of those virtues make a difference in early promotion policy? I for one think these virtues are spoken about and rarely taught. An older student arguably has attained many of these virtues and is ready to advance faster than say an 8 year old? Of course that's asking for a lot in many cases. The bottom line is of course, if the Sabunim feels that giving away black belts is good for business. In that case, we're better off selling them in a martial arts supply store. Point of information, a martial arts supply store in my neighborhood sells kukkiwon look-alike certificates for $2.50 a pop. I'm a royal pain in the hindquarters about regulation of martial arts. I think I've been wasting my time. All we have to do is what we're doing now and we'll soon be totallty discredited and beg for supervision. Your irritant, Sid --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clips: thoughts on internal Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sifu Rudy explaining and demonstrating push hands martial usage for combat. You seen it first from BT reality internal show...hahaha reality internal Show 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly0Ls9S8lO8 reality internal show 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBKqtcNmdMU reality internal Show 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szeycwm5cs8 --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:Baby black belts Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:32:26 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Right on Sid! John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Baby black belts > Many of you have read where I refer to a New York Master as having gone > from > 5th to 9th dan overnight. He's one of the guys that has defrauded > countless > students on kukkiwon fees. Now get this....he recently i ntroduced on a > local > tv station one of his students that made 2nd dan. So what? Well....this > 2nd > dan is 8 years old!!!!! So, by the time he's 17 he'll be a 5th dan > master. > I think the red/black belt is the correct measure here. A student can and > should reach up to 3rd poom red/black belt until he/she is 16. At that > point the > clock should begin and by the time he/she is 20 MAYBE 4th dan. Even that > is > ridiculous in nature. > > > Sid > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: dave weller Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:02:18 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 3rd Dan Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Scholten, Thanks for the promotion!! I do believe, though, that this information is incorrect. In the WTF/Kukkiwon school I attend, and the same holds true for the places I have visited personally and virtually, Jr. Master is 4th dan. Master is 5th. Grandmaster at 7th. I have heard rumblings of not conferring master status until 6th Dan but I try to avoid politics as much as possible. This is only from my experience, others may have different ideas and viewpoints. The whole discussion is pretty pointless anyhow, I'd be perfectly happy with one of Mike Tomlinson's purple spandex belts as long as I continue to get good instruction. And have a blast getting it! Class Friday night at our WTF TKD school consisted of an hour and a half of instruction on sweeps and throws. Weird, huh? Have fun, train hard, dave weller On Jul 16, 2006, at 5:00 AM, Mr. Scholten wrote: > > 3rd Dan is junior master --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re:Baby black belts Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:14:52 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I agree that eight is young for a second degree, perhaps even too young for a first degree, I'm not sure how old is old enough. Nor do I think anyone else really knows. They may have an opinion for their own school, but nothing to really support it other than their opinion. With that said, many of us may agree on what's too young and I get annoyed when I see a black belt stowed in the diaper bag..... In regards to KKW ranking, the way I read it, assuming they started at poom/junior ranking, a person must be 22 in order to obtain the ranking of 5th degree in KKW. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination08.jsp?div=01#0 8 Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:15:34 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] News Report about Assault Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a story about a woman being assaulted. The reporter interviewed a buddy of mine who operates 4 taekwondo & hapkido schools in the North Carolina area. http://wfmynews2.com/news/local_state/article.aspx?storyid=66847 Master Hendrix was just at our school here in Crestview doing a few seminars for some of our students. He left about 5AM this morning heading back home. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] India??? Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:32:04 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've also read that the martial arts in India were heavily influenced by the Greeks ala Alexander the Great. Of course, the Greeks themselves were heavily influenced by the Egyptians. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jye nigma Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] India??? Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:40:17 -0700 (PDT) Yeah I actually did a paper in college a few years back on the african martial arts and found that African arts of combat predate india. Matter of fact it's believed that Africa has the oldest records of a martial art and egypt having a complete system of martial arts from empty hand to weapons to using forts and things of that nature. But I saw somewhere that india is given credit to being the father of asian martial arts because of the spiritual connection they all share through I guess buddism. (one day I'll be able to spell that word correctly) Jye john.a.mcintosh@bt.com wrote: BongSoo wrote: "Actually, all of the above is wrong, is it not? Its pretty well established that all martial arts, especially internal styles, originated in India..." I would have to question this statement, all martial arts did not originate in India. Perhaps India had a massive influence on Asian martial arts... --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 3rd Dan Rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Thanks for the promotion!! I do believe, though, that this > information is incorrect. In the WTF/Kukkiwon school I attend, and > the same holds true for the places I have visited personally and > virtually, Jr. Master is 4th dan. Master is 5th. Grandmaster at 7th. And, of course, I don't believe that any of this is used in Korea. Seems to be just another invention from, or for, those of us outside Korea. Wish we could just go back to being either a student or a teacher. No other titles should be needed. IMHO Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] kukkiwon reference Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:37:23 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't know who you were asking this of, or the book or DVD that you are inquiring about, but the Kukkiwon has video clips of all of the Taeguk and black belt forms on their Web site. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/information/information04.jsp?div=04 Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Donahoo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] kukkiwon reference Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Could you please pass along the name of that book and dvd? Also where a person could purchase it. Thank you. Mike Donahoo In devotion to the art __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest