Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:00:18 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #303 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Master Dan history of belts and rank (Ray) 2. History of dan ranks (Michael Atamian) 3. Deputy blackbelts (dave weller) 4. RE: why multiple breaks (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 5. Re: Final Fu (Martin VonCannon) 6. RE: dan rank and belts in general (J R Hilland) 7. Re: RE: Most Difficult Break (michael tomlinson) 8. Master Dan my best breaks (Dan Scholten) 9. Sado ? (Ray) 10. Re: Forms (alex murphy) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Dan history of belts and rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I can tell you what I know, WTF has always had 10 Dan's with only one 10th > Dan allowed who is president of the WTF association, There have been > recently some 10th Dan ranks awarded as honorary for contributions and > politics. My GM certificate is #20 ever issued at 9th Dan level in the > world. In Jido Kwan we have always had both Red and brown belt with Red two > levels high and low and Brown three levels before Deputy Black Belt. Always? No, I don't think so. Kukkiwon 10th Dan is something relatively new. All are honorary. I recall sitting in the Kukkiwon office of Col. KIM Bong-sik, now I believe that he is retired from not just the military but the Kukkiwon. He told me a few years ago there would never be a Kukkiwon 10th Dan. So either the recent honorary 10th Dans were something he wasn't think of as a real 10th Dan, or he was just wrong. I suspect it is the former. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Michael Atamian" To: ".the dojang" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:42:02 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] History of dan ranks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It was white, brown and black when I first started....no stripes...no fancy embroidery...and the white was dyed to brown and the brown to black. fraternally, Mike Atamian Doju/Choson Do --__--__-- Message: 3 From: dave weller Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:55:19 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Deputy blackbelts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This has not disappeared in our school. We call it "Danbo" and the student must go back to his school/class and assist in teaching, training hard etc for 6 months and then is eligible to test for 1st dan. We break 1" pine bought at the local lumber yard, knots and all. We are a WTF school. Hardest break for me was also the easiest. 3 board roundhouse kick. I had never tried it with that much lumber before the test,. was a little worried. My teacher told me to think of "Caddie Shack" where Chevy Chase is doing the putting and making some odd zen-like sounds "nah nah nah nah nah" and hitting the cup every time whenever I was nervous before a fight or breaking. So I stood there, directly in front of the Grandmasters (and my teacher who sits at the masters table) and hoped I was doing the sounds in my head and not verbalizing. When they hollered "Break" I hardly knew I'd kicked anything. The power of "no mind"!! take care, dave "maybe you had to be there" weller On Jul 19, 2006, at 12:52 PM, the_dojang- request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > we always use to have deputy > black belt for 90 days to see how a person was going to act before > awarding > 1st Dan. > > > > A lot of years and a lot of money later I think this has > disappeared????????????? --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:05:46 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: why multiple breaks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Donahoo: Right on! Good points about breaking for sure. I teach the ITF hyungs through the Gup levels. At Dan level you learn ITF and WTF poomse. So, I guess I do just the reverse of what you do. Thanks again for the comments. James Morgan GTKDA Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:15:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: why multiple breaks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr. Morgan I agree with what you said 100% Breaks should reflect power, speed, and concentration. The mind and body moving as one to break an object, whether it is wood, tiles, or concrete. On the other hand that is exactly why I think some students do multiple breaks - to show the complete control, agility, speed, power, concentration, and targeting that is required of such feats. Some of our students choose to attempt such breaks and we let the older more experienced ones attempt. We do not use 'demo' boards though. We use 1" pine. Also you asked of our background. We are a WTF style school. Our students study Palgwe forms at the colored belt level and at black belt level not only do they learn WTF but ITF forms for there dan level. So a first dan does Koryo and Gwang Gae, etc. In devotion to the art Mike Donahoo --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:16:34 -0700 From: Martin VonCannon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Final Fu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Quoting Gladewater SooBahkDo : > I watched that Final-Fu show last night. At first I thought hey this might > be > OK. The creative drils were fun to watch, but when the fights started > Iwanted > to throw up. Those people have great line and technique, but IMHO couldn't > fight out of a wet paper sack. > I agree with you on this. To me they are 20 somethings that could not get into the UFC (or the like). This seems rather tame for what it is hyped up to be. - Martin E. VonCannon Tacoma Dojang Instructor mvoncannon@akdwa.org http://tacoma.akdwa.org --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:09:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: dan rank and belts in general Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Here we go again! :) Many stories abound regarding the honored black belt in various martial arts styles. The one most commonly heard is that the novice martial artist traditionally started with a white belt. As he trained and practiced over the years, the belt became soiled, first turning brown and ultimately black as he perfected his martial arts skills. The extraordinary metaphor provided by this charming bit of folklore, unfortunately, has no foundation in truth. All you need to do is observe the well-worn belt of a high-ranking black belt to see through this fantasy. In fact the reverse is more likely true - look at that black belt and you will notice it is almost white where use has made it threadbare. A white belt would wear out before it ever turned black. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Most Difficult Break Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:58:50 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net the most difficult break ever for me occured on me and my wife's first date....southern bbq joint....I had a bad cold and had to break wind on one of those hard wooden benches while we were eating...thought I was successful in breaking wind without her hearing it...I was wrong....been married 17 years now so I guess it was a successful breaking of wind.... Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:07:26 -0800 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan my best breaks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Since people are talking about best breaks I have decided to include three of mine which the amount is not important but the quality and theory behind it. I have done five bricks but I find the specialty breaks to be more interesting in theory and not people doing. First is holding your own boards, I have seen even good home grown masters bounce off even one good hard green or wet board, I have done up to 4 boards when in shape and until just a few years ago due to digital camera capabilities I never knew for the last 25 years I was literally levitating 4-6 inches off the ground before making contact with the boards. I require al colored belts from green up to start doing this break. It takes speed, focus, holding correctly, focus and Chi. Especially dropping the Chi which masters should understand what that means but it is really related to Kempo, dropping your weight in relation to focusing your Chi into any technique as it relates to balance and center. The four progressive photos I have attached show this. This is a great overall development break for all levels and can be related to real self defense applications latter. I am going to send to more articles as it relates to breaking in broken glass and why you do it. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 3 boards hand held #1.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 3 boards hand held #2.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 3 boards hand held #3.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 3 boards hand held #4.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Sado ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A snip from the well known article published in the Seoul newspaper Shinmoon in mid-1959; author SON Duk-sung, 2nd Kwan Jang of the Chung Do Kwan. "The Korean traitors who ran away to Japan were a matter of regret for me. They don't know that they will be punished at last. Nam Tae Hi asked me to give a dan certificate to 29th Infantry Division commander Choi Hong Hi, who had some experience in martial art (Sado), so we could use his military authority to spread the Chung Do Kwan. To contribute to Taekwondo's development, I gave an Honorary 4th Dan certificate signed by myself, Son Duk Sung, to Choi Hong Hi in front of the 3rd Army commander in 1955. In 1957, Choi insisted that I give him a 6th Dan and sent a certificate he prepared in my name for me to sign. Because Choi and I were sworn brothers, and because my younger brother had a 6th Dan, he wanted one also. I tore up the certificate he sent to me without signing it. General Choi was also sending instructors (Sabums) to Vietnam, but he did that on his own authority and chose the number of instructors to send without consulting me. He also lied and stated that he had 24 years experience in martial arts practice (Sa Do Soo Ryun) and spread propaganda about himself. Therefore, it was unavoidable that I had to cancel his Honorary 4th Dan certificate and Honorary Kwan Jang position." I thought Sado was the Japanese Tea Ceremony. ??? What was Sa Do Soo Ryun that Gen. Choi claimed to have studied? Back on the topic of fast promotions, note that Gen. Choi was hoping to go from an honorary 4th Dan to 6th Dan in two years. But then GM Son has also stated that when LEE Won-kuk made him the 2nd CDK Kwan Jang, he went from 4th Dan immediately to 9th Dan. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:40:58 -0700 (PDT) From: alex murphy Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Forms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I teach both forms. It works good for the older students. The younger ones too age 9 and up. The youngest get them confused. We have 3 forms at each belt level both WTF and the ITF ones. Master Pearson Thunderbird Martial Arts --- gtkda@ntelos.net wrote: > I was just wondering how many of you teach the ITF > hyungs at the Gup level > and then the WTF poomse at the Dan level. OR visa > versa... > I have heard of some schools doing this and was > wondering who on this list > does that, or something similar, and how does it > work out for you doing > this? > > Thank you. > > James Morgan > GTKDA > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest