Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 03:00:25 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #305 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Master Dan History of belts and rank (Dan Scholten) 2. On ranking (Klaas Barends) 3. RE: JO Award Winners (Joseph Cheavens) 4. RE: Darkening belts... (J. Thomas Howard) 5. North Korean Demo Team in U.S. (Michael Atamian) 6. Re: On ranking (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 7. Re: On ranking (Ray) 8. ranking system (instructor@realtaekwondo.com) 9. RE: Dan Ranks (Bert Edens) 10. Re: ranking system (Ray) 11. Re: RE: Dan Ranks (Ray) 12. Hapkido Instructor (Woodard Brian (ChP/TEF8)) 13. Re: Hapkido Instructor (John Chambers) 14. USOC considers plan to launch its own network (The_Dojang) 15. Re: video clips: realistic training (J Hazen) 16. NK demo tour (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:02:49 -0800 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan History of belts and rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, When I mentioned red and brown belts in JidoKwon and said we I was expressing our NW Black Belt Association under GM Choi Tae Hong, That's all we ever knew and he never mentioned anything related to brown and red, another master who is my very good friend who is also a very well known master under Dillman brought up the theory of why red was introduced?? Grand Master Choi was all Asian champion three years in a row from 52-55 also Olympic Gold medalist in Judo in the 60's and studied martial arts in Japan probably Judo?? And other stuff as well, If I herd him correctly he studied with the founder of JidoKwon in Japan and explained what his personal philosophy of Jidokwon was. He was originally 3rd Dan in Tang Soo before changing over to Tae Kwon Do , I don't think the topic of 10th Dan came up in the 70's and possibly I assumed that from some official WTF and other Kukkiwon documents including their website in the last couple of years. By the way I have never been a real big fan of all the rank stripes on belts (plus everyone get this) the old and tattered black belts guys get by putting bleach and 5lbs of change in the washer, I have seen lots of that. I am much more concerned about health, ability and does it hold up my pants?? --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:12:23 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] On ranking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net So why don't we all just agree to forget about ranking? You give your student whatever color belt you like. That way other can see, ha he/she's wearing an orange belt, so he's gotta be Dutch or something. What do you say? From today on we put the whole ranking issue aside. How about that? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkidoforum.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] JO Award Winners Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:14:09 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Go Texas! Is Darren Tubbs related at all to long time national high power rifle champion David Tubbs? Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: The_Dojang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] JO Award Winners Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:06:20 -0700 Junior Olympic Award Winners The following individuals were recognized for their achievements at the conclusion of the 2006 Junior Olympic Championships in Atlanta, Georgia: Male Athlete of the Tournament: Daren Tubbs (TX) Female Athlete of the Tournament: Kasey Mallard (TX) Male Referee of the Tournament: Ron Rose (MI) Female Referee of the Tournament: Linda Kimmich (CO) Best Coach: Patrice Remarck (MD) Best Event Specialist: Debbie Krotish (SC) Best Volunteer: Ernie Ramirez & Extreme TKD (CA) Best Medical Staff: Trish Bare-Grounds (FL) _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "J. Thomas Howard" To: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:22:17 -0500 Organization: Nebraska Hapkido Association Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Darkening belts... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jay wrote, in response to Ray's comment: > ---- Ray wrote: > > Pretty much for sure. Check the few pics available of > training back in > > the mid to late 1800s. Of course it will vary by climate > of the country > > and the season, but frequently they just worn their > undergarments. No > > special uniform or workout clothes. Just whatever they > were wearing that > > day and then take part or much of it off during training, > weather permitting. > > So would the underwear get darker as they trained more? > > Take care, > Jay I would assume that they would wash their clothes, personally. Thomas H. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: 7/19/2006 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Atamian" To: ".the dojang" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:52:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] North Korean Demo Team in U.S. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I live about an hour away from Raleigh and if any such tkd team is slated to demonstrate here it would be plastered all over the local tv channels. The Wake County area, of which Raleigh is a part, is full of tkd schools headed by Korean instructors and they make sure everyone knows when a Korean is coming. If I hear anything about this demo I will advise. I would be interested in seeing if these north of the DMZ martial artists still maintain the old, traditional values. Also, FWIW, the obies used back then were pure silk and were decorative more than for practical use and they did last forever. Whoever said that today's belts were not meant to last is correct because they don't. The dobok was almost always the regular daily clothing, nothing fancy or martial arts specific. Those who revere the tattered black belt are generally Kenpo practitioners as they consider a tattered belt to be a badge of honor. Ever wonder why The Chinese use the sash and not the obie or belt? Do you think they were on to something? Jhoon Rhee will go down in history as one of the finest Korean martial arts masters of all time to teach in America, along with the late Sang Kyu Shim. They were "old school" and the last of a special breed. fraternally, Michael A. Atamian Doju/Choson Do --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] On ranking To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:56:06 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am new to this forum, so please have patience. I don't know what rank you all are, as many of you don't publish that information. With all due respect, it seems that some of you are dans that have forgotten what it was like to be a gup. I am 7th gup in Tae Kwon Do. I don't have a lot of experience, but I have been paying close attention in the time I have spent in my studies. I am as concerned about the lack of standardization in belt rankings (the number and colors) as the rest of you seem to be, but doing away with the rankings would be a disservice to the instructors and students. When learning new techniques, it is beneficial to the students to be paired with someone of equal abilities. The color of the belt helps the instructor to make these pairings in an efficient manor. As well as tournament pairings. It also keeps those with short attention spans (most children & many adults) focused on a goal that is persieved as attainable. Multiple gup levels give the student a goal to reach for and a sense of accomplishment that keep their energy and enthusiam high. I know that most of these kids won't continue these teaching their whole life, but hopefully they will retain some of the basics they have learned about setting goals, perseverence and courtesy. The rest of us who continue to learn and grow can also benefit from setting a goal that is challenging and attainable. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] On ranking To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > What do you say? From today on we put the whole ranking issue aside. How > about that? Dreamer... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:24:36 -0700 From: instructor@realtaekwondo.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ranking system Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There is nothing wrong with the ranking system! Its the Master that gives the rank! Its funny to me that people think they have to follow any ranking system or time in grade requirements that the WTF or Kukkiwon have. I use the kukkiwon as a worlwide registry for my black belts, that's it. They have no say so in what I teach or what time in grade requirements I have. Its up to the Master of the dojang to decide whether he/she thinks it should be 2, 3 or 6 years to first dan. It is they who decide if their black belt its worthy to move to 2nd dan and so on. Master Urbistondo --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Bert Edens" To: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:11:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Dan Ranks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, sir... You mean where it takes only a week to get from 2nd dan to 9th dan? :) Sorry, couldn't resist... :) **bows** - Bert Edens Springdale, Arkansas -----Original Message----- From: Ray I personally have not heard of Korean arts every having only seven day ranks. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] ranking system To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Its funny to me that people think they have to follow any ranking system >or time in grade requirements that the WTF or Kukkiwon have. I use the >kukkiwon as a worlwide registry for my black belts, that's it. They have no >say so in what I teach or what time in grade requirements I have. Its up to >the Master of the dojang to decide whether he/she thinks it should be 2, 3 or 6 >years to first dan. It is they who decide if their black belt its worthy to >move to 2nd dan and so on. Master Urbistondo Yes and no. The Kukkiwon does keep track of time in rank, but you are right that they do not track anything or anyone below 1st Dan. After that, if you try to promote, e.g., a Kukkiwon 2nd Dan to Kukkiwon 3rd Dan in only one year it will be rejected. The Kukkiwon is more than just a black belt registry and they do track time in (Dan) rank. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Dan Ranks To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Drat! My computer screwed up again! :) Ray > Greetings, sir... > You mean where it takes only a week to get from 2nd dan to 9th dan? :) > Sorry, couldn't resist... :) > > **bows** > > - Bert Edens > Springdale, Arkansas > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ray > > I personally have not heard of Korean arts every having only seven day > ranks. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:49:30 -0400 From: "Woodard Brian (ChP/TEF8)" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Instructor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am going to be going to a Hapkido instructor next week. I have only seen short videos and what I have read on the digest when it comes to Hapkido. Do you have any suggestions on what to look for when it comes to Hapkido instruction? This guy does not have any students that he teaches regularly. I just happened to come across him via other MA schools and I am thinking of asking him to take me on as a student. Thoughts? Best Regards, Brian Woodard --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Instructor Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:02:54 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Brian: Where do you live? John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Woodard Brian (ChP/TEF8)" To: Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 2:49 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Instructor >I am going to be going to a Hapkido instructor next week. I have only > seen short videos and what I have read on the digest when it comes to > Hapkido. Do you have any suggestions on what to look for when it comes > to Hapkido instruction? This guy does not have any students that he > teaches regularly. I just happened to come across him via other MA > schools and I am thinking of asking him to take me on as a student. > Thoughts? > > Best Regards, > Brian Woodard > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:12:38 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] USOC considers plan to launch its own network Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net USOC considers plan to launch its own network COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) - If the plan works, sports fans soon will have another 24-hour network at their disposal: Olympic TV. The U.S. Olympic Committee is strongly considering launching its own network, filled with live events, archival footage, maybe even a cooking show or two. The working title, the U.S. Olympic Sports Network, is an idea that has been bandied about for the past decade or so. Only now, however, is the USOC getting serious. Among the goals for such a network would be, of course, to make money, and to increase exposure for Olympic sports, many of which quickly are forgotten as soon as the Olympics end. Over time, there's a chance increased exposure through a single network could make the Olympics a more valuable commodity when the negotiations for future network TV contracts come up. It certainly would help national governing bodies of individual sports, many of which struggle to find an audience. "We think by aggregating it under one channel, we'll have a more cost-effective way for them to air their sports," USOC chief executive Jim Scherr said. "That gives them a greater ability to build an audience." Modern pentathlon and taekwondo fans will, of course, be thrilled. But while there may not be that huge an audience for many of these niche sports, the USOC takes comfort in the fact that more than 10 million Americans are either members of a national governing body of an Olympic sport or a parent of someone who is a member. "We know that not every event will get stellar ratings," said Steve Roush, USOC chief of sport performance. "You might take some bruises here and there, but overall, it's viable." Just how viable is up for debate in a highly fragmented television world in which the biggest goal for any fledgling network simply is finding enough cable and satellite systems willing to distribute the channel. Once on a system, the task becomes finding viewers and making money off advertising. For a price, all channels can find a home, and the USOC has great name recognition and branding going for it, which could help if the channel is available in enough homes. Still, there are skeptics. And it's not just coincidence that this supposed slam-dunk of an idea hasn't yet been attempted. "It would be almost like the World Cup channel," said Robert Thompson, professor of popular culture at Syracuse. "Once every few years, you're The Channel. In between, there's some stuff that goes on, but I don't know if it's enough to sustain something like that. ... It's not a completely harebrained scheme, but the reality is, it's rough to start a new channel." The stakes are high for the USOC, high enough that many inside the offices might wish they'd gotten into the TV business a few years earlier before the audience had fragmented to the point it's at today. The time zone difference, the internet and the absence and struggles of American stars (most notably Michelle Kwan and Bode Miller) all contributed to some startlingly low figures for NBC's airing of this year's Winter Games in Turin. The figures for Athens were better than for Sydney, four years previous, but not anything like the old days. Of course, back then, there wasn't "American Idol" or 100 channels. Numbers will never be like they were. All this certainly will factor into negotiations for TV rights for the 2014 Games and beyond, which could start as soon as next year. The USOC gets about 33 percent of its operating budget for each four-year cycle from Olympic TV money. Clearly, keeping the value high is a huge priority, and generating good ratings for 2008, 2010 and 2012 would benefit everyone in the Olympic movement. "I'm very confident the next three Olympic Games will generate more than acceptable TV ratings," said media consultant Neal Pilson, the former president of CBS Sports, who consults with the International Olympic Committee on its TV deals. Though it may not help generate TV ratings - and, in fact, could chip away at them - many people feel the most important project to increase interest and generate revenue from the Olympics will be expanding internet coverage. A new TV network would give the USOC an easy marketing platform to sell content through the internet - updates, highlights and even live feeds of events. And if cable and satellite distribution is a problem, the USOC conceivably could offer the network through the net. What kind of programming would be on the network? Though he sees many Olympic trials and national championships possibly being aired, Scherr still envisions biggest events for the biggest sports on network television. (Though NBC might have other ideas. Gymnastics, for instance, is one of the most popular sports on the summer program, but most trials and championships are packaged and shown on tape delay. Officials at NBC did not immediately respond to interview requests for this story.) There could be lifestyle and cooking shows, interview shows, instructional shows, magazine shows, telecasts of championships and events from other countries. And there's also abundant amounts of archival footage that could be packaged in different ways - a version of ESPN Classic, Olympic style. "It'd be cool, for two weeks one year, if they played the entire ABC coverage of the 1972 Munich Olympics - played it just like they televised it when it happened," Thompson said. "That's a fairly specialized audience, but it's a good product, too." Thompson fondly remembered Olympic coverage in the 1970s and early 80s, when ABC brought sports broadcasting to a new level. "Back then, we televised the Olympics better than the Egyptians built pyramids," he said. Since then, however, the in-depth, personalized athlete features have become almost a cliche, great camera work has become commonplace and inundation of sports on television has long been a way of life. That's the atmosphere the USOC has to wade in to. "We're taking the challenge for any marketer or TV entity, which is to find a way to get fragmented audiences that exist today and get them together," Scherr said. "We think there is a viable way to do that for Olympic sports." --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: J Hazen To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] video clips: realistic training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JN: http://www.combatarena.co.uk/weapson_test.wmv A lot of this is a little frightening (if this is what they really practice), but at 42 seconds into this, it looks like the guy with the cap on would've gotten a big smile painted across his neck from the other guy's knife. --jeff --__--__-- Message: 16 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] NK demo tour Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dates/locations for the NK TKD demo tour, if they are actually allowed to leave NK... 10/13-14 San Francisco 10/15 Chicago 10/18 Cedar Rapids, Iowa 10/21 Louisville, KY 10/22 Atlanta 10/24 Columbia, SC 10/25 Raleigh, NC 10/27 NYC "Each show on the tour will feature the North Korean TKD Demonstration Team, along with US and South Korean Martial Artists and a blend of traditional Korean music and culture. Let's warmly welcome our North Korean Tae Kwon Do brothers and sisters and show them our friendship and support that transend political ideologies." Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest