Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:26:32 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #327 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Blow to wallet (Thomas Gordon) 2. Re: Blow to wallet (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 3. Re: Blow to wallet (Tim) 4. RE: Blow to wallet (Joseph Cheavens) 5. Re: Blow to wallet (Ray) 6. Re: Blow to wallet (Jay O'Connor) 7. RE: Blow to wallet (Jay O'Connor) 8. Re: Blow to wallet (Joseph Cheavens) 9. Re: Blow to wallet (Joseph Cheavens) 10. Re: Blow to wallet (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 11. Blow to wallet (Gordon) 12. RE: Blow to wallet (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:33:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Thomas Gordon" Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet Published August 9, 2006 Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her mind. SAMANTHA HAYDEN OVIEDO Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:25:32 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I sympathize with Samantha over the breakdown in communication that may have occurred when signing the contract, as well as the (in my opinion) steep price paid for lessons, I have to ask who is in control in this situation. How is it that a 5 year old can be given the responsibility to make such decisions? How many parents buy instruments (instead of renting) for their aspiring musician only to have them deside they don't want to continue music lessons? How about expensive sports equipment for the athlete who doesn't want to compete, anymore? It is up to the parent to determine how long the lessons should continue, not the child. That, too, is part of the lesson to be learned. Hind sight being 20-20, the appropriate course of action would have been to sign up for a shorter term (1-6 months max) and then decide whether to continue. If that is not an option, look for another school. tgordon@gordonmar tialarts.com To 08/10/2006 08:33 AM cc Subject Please respond to [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet the_dojang@martia lartsresource.net http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet Published August 9, 2006 Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her mind. SAMANTHA HAYDEN OVIEDO Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Tim" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:48:22 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have heard that you can easily get out of those contracts by just no longer paying. The contract is a contract, but you cannot collect on future services that you no longer want. I have read many times and I know from where I train, that it is easier for the school to relinquish the contract than it is to try to collect on a service that you haven't received. Goodluck, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Gordon" Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:33 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > Published August 9, 2006 > > Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free > martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I > loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years > at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer > "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure > she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked > him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from > customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled > within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, > and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months > of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a > credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her > mind. > > SAMANTHA HAYDEN > > OVIEDO > > Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this > for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," > Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of > the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach > life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never > sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical > 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a > stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And > teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:01:53 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow,  $160 a month is pretty steep, especially for a 3 year contract. That said, no one held a gun to her head to sign the contract. I don't particularly like these type of contracts because the ill will that can be generated by disgruntled former students. A school lives or dies by its reputation. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Gordon" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:33:33 -0500 (CDT) http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet Published August 9, 2006 Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her mind. SAMANTHA HAYDEN OVIEDO Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > Published August 9, 2006 Seems like a rather short-sighted approach, making people continue to pay for lessons that they are no longer taking. The instructor continues to make $ off this/these student/s, but the negative PR produced results in a reduced # of students walking thru your door down the road. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:18:46 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Cc: Tim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ---- Tim wrote: > I have heard that you can easily get out of those contracts by just no > longer paying. I think she paid in advance so she's trying to recoup the cost. I mean she can just 'not go' but she's already out the money The contract is a contract, but you cannot collect on future > services that you no longer want. I have read many times and I know from > where I train, that it is easier for the school to relinquish the contract > than it is to try to collect on a service that you haven't received. > > Goodluck, > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Gordon" > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:33 AM > Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > > > > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > > Published August 9, 2006 > > > > Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free > > martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I > > loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years > > at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer > > "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure > > she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked > > him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from > > customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled > > within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, > > and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months > > of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a > > credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her > > mind. > > > > SAMANTHA HAYDEN > > > > OVIEDO > > > > Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this > > for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," > > Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of > > the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach > > life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never > > sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical > > 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a > > stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And > > teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:21:23 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Cc: Joseph Cheavens Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hate to say it but I would never pay in advance for any of my children to do something for three years, unless they had already done it for awhile and show serious, sustained interest. Expecting someone to pay advance for a three year contract (and then brushing it off on a "Life Lesson" for a 5 yo) is pretty shady, but paying in advance for a three year hobby for a 5 yo is not too smart Take care, Jay ---- Joseph Cheavens wrote: > Wow,  $160 a month is pretty steep, especially for a 3 year contract. > That said, no one held a gun to her head to sign the contract. I don't > particularly like these type of contracts because the ill will that can > be generated by disgruntled former students. A school lives or dies by > its reputation. > > Joe Cheavens > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Thomas Gordon" > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:33:33 -0500 (CDT) > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column? coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > Published August 9, 2006 > > Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free > martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I > loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three > years > at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no > longer > "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm > sure > she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and > asked > him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter > from > customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have > canceled > within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going > back, > and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four > months > of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance > on a > credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her > mind. > > SAMANTHA HAYDEN > > OVIEDO > > Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing > this > for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the > agreement," > Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole > purpose of > the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We > teach > life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: > Never > sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical > 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a > stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, > "And > teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:23:40 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well said. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:25:32 -0500 While I sympathize with Samantha over the breakdown in communication that may have occurred when signing the contract, as well as the (in my opinion) steep price paid for lessons, I have to ask who is in control in this situation. How is it that a 5 year old can be given the responsibility to make such decisions? How many parents buy instruments (instead of renting) for their aspiring musician only to have them deside they don't want to continue music lessons? How about expensive sports equipment for the athlete who doesn't want to compete, anymore? It is up to the parent to determine how long the lessons should continue, not the child. That, too, is part of the lesson to be learned. Hind sight being 20-20, the appropriate course of action would have been to sign up for a shorter term (1-6 months max) and then decide whether to continue. If that is not an option, look for another school. tgordon@gordonmar tialarts.com To 08/10/2006 08:33 AM cc Subject Please respond to [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet the_dojang@martia lartsresource.net http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet Published August 9, 2006 Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her mind. SAMANTHA HAYDEN OVIEDO Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:32:55 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thats why I don't like these type of contracts. I can see doing a 1 year max contract for a reduced rate, but I think the risk for both student (financial) and teacher (reputation) is too great for contracts any longer than that. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:18:27 -0700 (PDT) > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > Published August 9, 2006 Seems like a rather short-sighted approach, making people continue to pay for lessons that they are no longer taking. The instructor continues to make $ off this/these student/s, but the negative PR produced results in a reduced # of students walking thru your door down the road. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:36:24 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While $160/month for 36 months seems expensive, she doesn't mention what was or wasn't included in the contract. Was this the term for payments for unlimited lessons? Until obtaining black belt? Does it include sparring gear? Uniform? Testing fees? Tournament fees? Insurance? Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet Published August 9, 2006 Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her mind. SAMANTHA HAYDEN OVIEDO Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:41:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Orlando Sentinel. I clicked on their business link. They have a record number of building permits. Disney posted a profit of 1.1 Billion. A local hospital is expanding. They have the same illegal immigration problems everyone else has. Gas prices are down this morning due to thwarting the terrorist plot. The stock market is up. Life is good in Orlando. $160.00 a month? Why not? If your market will bare it and your program is worth it, why not? Nothing shady here, just a stupid father, that maybe, shouldn't have a credit card. Maybe we should teach parenting and household budgeting (another life skill). I think the father should go to the daughter's classes. I think HE needs it more. Honestly, I wish Victory Martial Arts success. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:00:47 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 160 a month in Oviedo Florida!!! Wow...that is a suburb of Orlando...I know the area very well...I teach Hapkido in Deltona which is about 25 miles away and I charge 50 dollars a month with no contracts....that seems like a rather large chunk of moolah to me.... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Joseph Cheavens" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:01:53 -0500 > >Wow,  $160 a month is pretty steep, especially for a 3 year contract. >That said, no one held a gun to her head to sign the contract. I don't >particularly like these type of contracts because the ill will that can >be generated by disgruntled former students. A school lives or dies by >its reputation. > >Joe Cheavens > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Thomas Gordon" > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:33:33 -0500 (CDT) > >http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > Published August 9, 2006 > > Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free > martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I > loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three > years > at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no > longer > "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm > sure > she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and > asked > him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter > from > customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have > canceled > within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going > back, > and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four > months > of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance > on a > credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her > mind. > > SAMANTHA HAYDEN > > OVIEDO > > Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing > this > for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the > agreement," > Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole > purpose of > the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We > teach > life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: > Never > sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical > 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a > stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, > "And > teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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