Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:43:39 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #328 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Blow to wallet (Steven Berkowitz) 2. Position announcement - University of Michigan (Ray) 3. Re: Blow to wallet (Steven Berkowitz) 4. Re: Blow to wallet (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 5. Blow to Wallet (Gordon) 6. Re: Blow to wallet (Thomas Gordon) 7. Re: Blow to wallet (Jay O'Connor) 8. Re: Blow to wallet (Steven Berkowitz) 9. RE: Blow to wallet (J R Hilland) 10. RE: Blow to wallet (Thomas Gordon) 11. Master Dan Too High a Price (Dan Scholten) 12. RE: Blow to wallet (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:13:46 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net actually, service contract forward(s) ARE enforceable, in most states of the civilized USA, unless there is a medical note indicating the "patient"-client will no longer be able to do the physical work required, OR if the gym moves out of the serviceable range (usually 25-50 miles) of their original location. IF the gym can transfer the contracted service to another gym closer to the client, the contract can also be enforceable. So, one ITF, ATA, etc dojang can "sell" the service contract to another and still share in the profit. However, my experience is that most schools affiliated with one of the large K shops sell the contract to a finance company on factor in the first 30 days and collect their "net" profit upfront, so the client is simply at war with a finance co., which usually wins. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay O'Connor" To: Cc: "Tim" Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > ---- Tim wrote: > > I have heard that you can easily get out of those contracts by just no > > longer paying. > > I think she paid in advance so she's trying to recoup the cost. I mean she can just 'not go' but she's already out the money > > The contract is a contract, but you cannot collect on future > > services that you no longer want. I have read many times and I know from > > where I train, that it is easier for the school to relinquish the contract > > than it is to try to collect on a service that you haven't received. > > > > Goodluck, > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Thomas Gordon" > > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:33 AM > > Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > > > > > > > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column ?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > > > > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > > > > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > > > Published August 9, 2006 > > > > > > Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free > > > martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I > > > loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years > > > at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer > > > "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure > > > she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked > > > him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from > > > customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled > > > within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, > > > and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months > > > of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a > > > credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her > > > mind. > > > > > > SAMANTHA HAYDEN > > > > > > OVIEDO > > > > > > Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this > > > for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," > > > Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of > > > the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach > > > life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never > > > sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical > > > 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a > > > stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And > > > teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > > Standard disclaimers apply > > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Position announcement - University of Michigan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... The University of Michigan invites applications for one or more tenure-track positions in Korean Studies, beginning in September 2007. Appointment is possible at any rank. Applicants from a wide variety of periods and fields within Korean Studies will be considered, including literature, cultural studies, art history, film studies, history, anthropology, sociology, and religious studies. All applicants should possess a high level of proficiency in Korean as well as the ability to teach undergraduate courses on both historical and contemporary periods. The successful candidate is expected to teach a range of courses in Korean Studies from introductory undergraduate lecture courses through graduate seminars in areas of research interest; to supervise doctoral dissertations; and to participate actively in the programs of the department as well as in area studies initiatives within a university community that encourages interdisciplinary efforts. Evidence of outstanding teaching ability and of promise in research is essential. The Ph.D. is required prior to appointment. Junior candidates should furnish a placement dossier (including cover letter describing the applicant's scholarly work and teaching, CV, research statement, teaching statement, representative publications or writing sample, and at least three letters of recommendation); senior candidates should send a letter of application, CV, and names of suggested reviewers. Please send applications to Korean Studies Search, 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI 48104-1608, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1285 (email secretary to the chair: kjmunson@umich.edu). Applications must be received by November 1 to be assured of consideration. The University of Michigan is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Women and members of minority groups are especially encouraged to apply. The University is supportive of the needs of dual career couples. All applications will be acknowledged. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:30:30 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net of course, many of those parents that wouldn't sign a contract for little Johnny to learn karate, will sign a contract for a pretty bauble to hanf around their own neck, a contract to buy a new car with monthly payments axceeding their mortgage or rent, hoin a commercial gym themself, and think nothing of getting into hock for a trumpet at Johnny's school.(isn't that one the same as karate contract?) or buy a piano because Johnny SAID he'd practice every day? what does all that say for the emotional maturity of the parent? I understand why a school would use contracts - business is business,a nd no business owner wants to plan to fail month to month, so cintracts are the first line of self-defense. If you DON'T want to be a commercial school, teach for free at your local YMCA or Parks Dept. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > Well said. > > Joe Cheavens > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:25:32 -0500 > While I sympathize with Samantha over the breakdown in communication > that > may have occurred when signing the contract, as well as the (in my > opinion) > steep price paid for lessons, I have to ask who is in control in this > situation. > How is it that a 5 year old can be given the responsibility to make > such > decisions? > How many parents buy instruments (instead of renting) for their > aspiring > musician only to have them deside they don't want to continue music > lessons? > How about expensive sports equipment for the athlete who doesn't want > to > compete, anymore? > It is up to the parent to determine how long the lessons should > continue, > not the child. That, too, is part of the lesson to be learned. > Hind sight being 20-20, the appropriate course of action would have > been to > sign up for a shorter term (1-6 months max) and then decide whether > to > continue. > If that is not an option, look for another school. > > tgordon@gordonmar > tialarts.com > To > 08/10/2006 08:33 > AM cc > > Subject > Please respond to [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > the_dojang@martia > lartsresource.net > > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column ?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > Published August 9, 2006 > > Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free > martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I > loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three > years > at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no > longer > "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm > sure > she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and > asked > him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter > from > customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have > canceled > within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going > back, > and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four > months > of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance > on a > credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her > mind. > > SAMANTHA HAYDEN > > OVIEDO > > Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing > this > for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the > agreement," > Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole > purpose of > the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We > teach > life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: > Never > sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical > 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a > stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, > "And > teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 14:50:04 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gordon, I just want to clear up some details. "Nothing shady here, just a stupid father, that maybe, shouldn't have a credit card. Maybe we should teach parenting and household budgeting (another life skill). I think the father should go to the daughter's classes. I think HE needs it more." SAMANTHA HAYDEN OVIEDO is the person (mother of student) making the original complaint. Greg Dawson Orlando Sentinel is the person receiving the complaint in order to pressure Victory Martial Arts into refunding the money. Nowhere does it mention the father. Victor gordon@baes.com 08/10/2006 11:41 To AM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net cc Please respond to Subject the_dojang@martia [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet lartsresource.net The Orlando Sentinel. I clicked on their business link. They have a record number of building permits. Disney posted a profit of 1.1 Billion. A local hospital is expanding. They have the same illegal immigration problems everyone else has. Gas prices are down this morning due to thwarting the terrorist plot. The stock market is up. Life is good in Orlando. $160.00 a month? Why not? If your market will bare it and your program is worth it, why not? Nothing shady here, just a stupid father, that maybe, shouldn't have a credit card. Maybe we should teach parenting and household budgeting (another life skill). I think the father should go to the daughter's classes. I think HE needs it more. Honestly, I wish Victory Martial Arts success. Gordon Okerstrom _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:03:30 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to Wallet Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Victor, you are right. I'm just too busy at work. LOL!!! Okay, leave gender out of it. The statement is still valid. She gets NO more sympathy from me than a male would. I have a problem with anyone running to the press to fix their problems. Especially when it's an error in judgment on their part. I'm sure the contract stated all the terms involved; length, service, penalties, forfeitures and the like. I'm sure she knew what she was doing when she used her credit card. Just as I'm sure that because she ran to the press to make it a bigger story than her error in judgment, she'll get her money back. The poor, the rich, the ignorant, the educated, the minority and the criminal have more rights than the average Joe. If you're special everybody is supposed to feel sorry for you. Geeze! Don't get me started! Better get back to work. Sorry for the rant. Gordon Okerstrom Gordon, I just want to clear up some details. "Nothing shady here, just a stupid father, that maybe, shouldn't have a credit card. Maybe we should teach parenting and household budgeting (another life skill). I think the father should go to the daughter's classes. I think HE needs it more." SAMANTHA HAYDEN OVIEDO is the person (mother of student) making the original complaint. Greg Dawson Orlando Sentinel is the person receiving the complaint in order to pressure Victory Martial Arts into refunding the money. Nowhere does it mention the father. Victor --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:06:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A few points: You CAN get a good rate for teaching. Is $160 too much? I don't know, is it? I pay more than that for lawn service every month. $160 won't even get you a hour with most lawyers. And doctors....HA! Our daughter went to the emergency room. 75 minutes later we walked out.....and a $1000 less. ($800 a hour doing the math) Personally, I think signing a five year old up on 36 month contract is unethical. I also think a parent signing up their 5 year old for 36 months ain't the brightest crayon in the box. As I was recently told it really comes down to 1-2-3. 1 - spoiled child 2 – money grubbing business 3 - stupid parent Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 15:13:16 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Cc: Steven Berkowitz Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think you are being quick to paint with a wide brush. I don't think anyone was saying that the probelm was wiht contracts per-se. Any adult who enters a contract must decide that they will fulfill that contract, for any service or good. The problem in this case is that the ability or willingness to fullfil that contract was based on the long-term desires of a 5 yo child, which is a risk I think most parents would be wise enough to avoid Take care, Jay ---- Steven Berkowitz wrote: > of course, many of those parents that wouldn't sign a contract for little > Johnny to learn karate, will sign a contract for a pretty bauble to hanf > around their own neck, a contract to buy a new car with monthly payments > axceeding their mortgage or rent, hoin a commercial gym themself, and think > nothing of getting into hock for a trumpet at Johnny's school.(isn't that > one the same as karate contract?) or buy a piano because Johnny SAID he'd > practice every day? > > what does all that say for the emotional maturity of the parent? > > I understand why a school would use contracts - business is business,a nd > no business owner wants to plan to fail month to month, so cintracts are the > first line of self-defense. > > If you DON'T want to be a commercial school, teach for free at your local > YMCA or Parks Dept. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joseph Cheavens" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:23 AM > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > > > > Well said. > > > > Joe Cheavens > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com > > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:25:32 -0500 > > While I sympathize with Samantha over the breakdown in communication > > that > > may have occurred when signing the contract, as well as the (in my > > opinion) > > steep price paid for lessons, I have to ask who is in control in this > > situation. > > How is it that a 5 year old can be given the responsibility to make > > such > > decisions? > > How many parents buy instruments (instead of renting) for their > > aspiring > > musician only to have them deside they don't want to continue music > > lessons? > > How about expensive sports equipment for the athlete who doesn't want > > to > > compete, anymore? > > It is up to the parent to determine how long the lessons should > > continue, > > not the child. That, too, is part of the lesson to be learned. > > Hind sight being 20-20, the appropriate course of action would have > > been to > > sign up for a shorter term (1-6 months max) and then decide whether > > to > > continue. > > If that is not an option, look for another school. > > > > tgordon@gordonmar > > tialarts.com > > To > > 08/10/2006 08:33 > > AM cc > > > > Subject > > Please respond to [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > > the_dojang@martia > > lartsresource.net > > > > > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column > ?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > > Published August 9, 2006 > > > > Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free > > martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I > > loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three > > years > > at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no > > longer > > "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm > > sure > > she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and > > asked > > him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter > > from > > customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have > > canceled > > within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going > > back, > > and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four > > months > > of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance > > on a > > credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her > > mind. > > > > SAMANTHA HAYDEN > > > > OVIEDO > > > > Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing > > this > > for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the > > agreement," > > Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole > > purpose of > > the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We > > teach > > life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: > > Never > > sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical > > 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a > > stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, > > "And > > teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 14:27:34 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Life Skill #2 - Sometimes you need to mitigate your losses. Offer Von Smelly a thousand bucks to let go, and learn the lesson from your overzealousness. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Gordon" Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 6:33 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/orl-dawson0906aug09,0,1478517.column ?coll=orl-shopping-headlines > > (http://snipurl.com/upxn if that link doesn't come through) > > Martial-arts lessons deliver painful blow to wallet > Published August 9, 2006 > > Dear Greg: Back in December, my 5-year-old daughter attended a free > martial arts class at Victory Martial Arts in Oviedo. She loved it! I > loved watching her! I signed a ridiculously long contract -- three years > at $160 a month. I don't know what I was thinking. My daughter no longer > "loves" tae kwon do. She "loves" horseback riding. Next year, I'm sure > she'll "love" another activity. I wrote to Master Von Schmeling and asked > him to please cancel the contract. I received a rather curt letter from > customer-service manager Sandra Velasquez saying I should have canceled > within three days of signing. My daughter has no interest in going back, > and I have little hope of getting a refund for two years and four months > of classes she will never attend -- $4,480, which I paid in advance on a > credit card. That's a high price to pay for a 5-year-old changing her > mind. > > SAMANTHA HAYDEN > > OVIEDO > > Dear Samantha: You don't understand -- Master Von Schmeling is doing this > for your daughter's own good. "We are not going to cancel the agreement," > Sandra Velasquez told me rather curtly. "That defeats the whole purpose of > the program, which is to make a commitment and stick with it. We teach > life skills." Consider this a pricey lesson in Life Skill No. 1: Never > sign a long-term contract for martial-arts lessons for a whimsical > 5-year-old. The motto at Victory Martial Arts is, "We are building a > stronger America one black belt at a time." To which I would add, "And > teaching hard lessons at $4,480 a pop." > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:00:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Blow to wallet Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> And the bad name/PR it gives all dojang/MA... JR Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:26:37 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Link to seminar where Master Von Schmeling is teaching this to fellow ATA school owners. "How to ask for big money." http://www.ataonline.com/schools/eventdetails.asp?ID=503 Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:04:08 -0800 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan Too High a Price Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net First to the poor parent who signed a three year contract, you should have shopped other schools and compared any DoJang that has inflexible plans has something to hide. First $160 month for a 5 year old is ridiculous. I always tell parents don't even buy a uniform for 2-4 weeks until they are really sure this is what they want. You have two financial resources to go to. First go to your credit card company and file a claim that you no longer receive that service and see if they will refund?? If this fails then send a formal letter with ten days to respond that you intend to file a claim in small claims, the Dojang and owner will be name in the law suit and that will be published. He will likely not like to have the bad publicity or his fees made public and may choose to settle with you. Third find another student who wants to train and transfer the contract to them and they pay you, maybe not the full price but even 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. Good Luck Master Dan --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:02:09 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I live in this area and trust me...160 a month is way out of line with the average prices around this area.... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Gordon" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Blow to wallet >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:41:10 -0500 > >The Orlando Sentinel. I clicked on their business link. They have a >record >number of building permits. Disney posted a profit of 1.1 Billion. A >local >hospital is expanding. They have the same illegal immigration problems >everyone else has. Gas prices are down this morning due to thwarting the >terrorist plot. The stock market is up. Life is good in Orlando. $160.00 >a month? Why not? If your market will bare it and your program is worth >it, why not? Nothing shady here, just a stupid father, that maybe, >shouldn't have a credit card. Maybe we should teach parenting and >household >budgeting (another life skill). I think the father should go to the >daughter's classes. I think HE needs it more. Honestly, I wish Victory >Martial Arts success. > >Gordon Okerstrom >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest