Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:32:17 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #340 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. martial arts degree (Mike Donahoo) 2. misc clips (Jye nigma) 3. style philosophies (Mike Donahoo) 4. RE: Root and Center... (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 5. Taeguek v Palgue (Johnnie Rouse) 6. Re: Why poomse not palgwe (sidtkd@aol.com) 7. RE: Taeguek v Palgue (Rick Clark) 8. Re: Parenting skills 1 on 1 (Mark Galassi) 9. Re: RE: Root and Center... (Jye nigma) 10. video: bridge and root (Jye nigma) 11. Return From Cali (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 12. Re: Martial Arts Consulting (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 13. [RE][The_Dojang] RE: Root and Center... (sidona) 14. Re: Parenting skills 1 on 1 (s. yates) 15. Re: Parenting skills 1 on 1 (Mark Galassi) 16. Re: Parenting skills 1 on 1 (s. yates) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:49:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] martial arts degree Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin, I enjoyed your post and was intrigued by your degree in martial arts. I have been kicking the idea around about possibly attending one of the couple schools in the US that offer a degree in martial arts. Do you feel your education helped you as a teacher and as a school owner? Aside from the school you attended :) are there other colleges that have have good programs. not just a martial arts programs, but programs that can be applied to martial arts and the teaching off? In devotion to the art, Mike Donahoo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:05:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: MartialArtsTalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] misc clips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net BUNKAI CLIPS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE5wDwE2Mqs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYO1Js0eWKo WOMEN & MARTIAL ARTS DEMO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CBFOfh3gk8&mode=related&search= --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:57:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] style philosophies Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Bishop / List members You mentioned that taekwondo and hapkido have different philosophies about offense and defense. I have never studied hapkido, perhaps you could explain how the two styles differ in there approach to offensive and defensive techniques? Thank you in advance for any insight you can offer. In devotion to the art, Mike Donahoo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:56:18 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: , Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Root and Center... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The use of rooting in taekwondo depends on your instructor and style, as does everything. The WTF folks don't do a lot of rooting, but I wouldn't say they didn't have leg strength. Plyometrics seems to take care of them just fine. Gen. Choi's sine wave movement might be closer to rooting, again depending on your instructor. The more hand skills you employ, the more apt you are to use rooting. I'd agree with Jye that however you explain the rooting (qi, biomechanics, etc), the rooting remains the same. I've done some baguazhang, and now that I know what to look for, I believe that some styles of hapkido have been influenced by it. Baguazhang, Xingiquan, Shaolin gongfu, and Praying Mantis gongfu all entered the ROK during the Korean War. Kuksulwon showed the Praying Mantis influence, and Kongshin hapkido showed the Baguazhang and Praying Mantis. I have to disagree with Jye that some form of formal exercise has to be done to develop root, which I think is his point. I'm a big fan of partner drills and one can play with root while doing those (push hands for example, or judo randori), instead of working through a form or solo exercise. Doing it in a partner drill also adds authentic assessment to the practice, and refines root to its most useful form (as long as the partner drills are varied and are as close as possible to the real thing). Jye writes: "A root building exercise like posture holding and then moving using deep stances, then those exercises can be easily used in a combat situation." Traditional taekwondo does deep stance work, and that develops strength and flexibility, but I'm still in favor of more dynamic exercises. That solo work is a great adjunct to partner drills, but is not directly applicable to fighting. The more time you spend in horse stance, the less you spend practicing fighting. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:18:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Taeguek v Palgue Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Taeguek forms were developed later and introduced as the more modern curriculum >From time to time this happens. If you want to teach the latest curriculum then Taeguek should be taught, a lot of dojangs do that and also teach Palgue motions for nostalgia reasons. Johnnie --__--__-- Message: 6 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:17:45 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Why poomse not palgwe Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Bob, Yours is an excellent question. We teach poomse because it is the latest rendition of the forms that the kukkiwon has approved as taekwondo per se in the WTF school of thought. In my school, when we reach 2nd dan we learn the palgwes as we pay honor to the original art. In my opion the palgwe are more beautiful but poomse were adopted as being simpler and a compromise between all the old kwan's forms. Universality breeds lower quality. What would happen if a merger between WTF and ITF took hold? Would we make forms simpler than they are now? Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:31:48 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Taeguek v Palgue To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Johnnie, >From: Johnnie Rouse [mailto:rmetals@cmaaccess.com] >The Taeguek forms were developed later and introduced as the >more modern curriculum From time to time this happens. If you >want to teach the latest curriculum then Taeguek should be >taught, a lot of dojangs do that and also teach Palgue motions >for nostalgia reasons. Johnnie I am curious about the reasons you (and others) practice forms. I have my own thoughts of course, but I always find it interesting to hear what others think on the subject. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 8 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Parenting skills 1 on 1 From: Mark Galassi Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:01:40 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>>>> "s. yates" == s yates writes: s. yates> Man, I hope this woman doesn't have to educate her s. yates> child [...] These kinds of postings attacking the poor woman for getitng suckered are really bad. Let's keep the tone of this list useful. If you have to say something negative about her for the sake of the discussion, do it in an academic way instead of an insulting way. Point out the lessons she can learn without offending her. She already admits she made a big mistake. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:06:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Root and Center... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FInally someone who "knows"...lol. I'm going to respond to some of your points below: >The use of rooting in taekwondo depends on your instructor and style, as does everything. Yes indeed I agree. That's across the board too. >The WTF folks don't do a lot of rooting, but I wouldn't say they didn't have leg strength. I agree with this as well. If I had to pick who uses little to no root they would be amongst the top of the list. Now don't get me wrong Im not saying people lack leg strength period. I'm saying they lack TOTAL leg strength. Strength in this case being muslce, tendon, bone strength. >Gen. Choi's sine wave movement might be closer to rooting, again depending on your instructor. The more hand skills you employ, the more apt you are to use rooting. Yes the sine wave is basically sinking power amplifying the power in the technique. as for your second statement you hit it dead on! >I have to disagree with Jye that some form of formal exercise has to be done to develop root, which I think is his point. I'm a big fan of partner drills and one can play with root while doing those (push hands for example, or judo randori), instead of working through a form or solo exercise. Doing it in a partner drill also adds authentic assessment to the practice, and refines root to its most useful form (as long as the partner drills are varied and are as close as possible to the real thing). I agree with your point it's just my opinion that doing it with a partner first is attempting to run before crawling. What I mean is this. No matter what the art is, you learn the basics first before fighting sparring etc right? So along with the basics are the basic exercises. The basic exercises whether they be stretching, drills etc., prep our bodies to be ready to do the basic martial art techniques. So for instance, you wouldn't go to school not warm up and stretch before kicking high right? why? because you need to prep that body for the training that's about to take place. So if one doesn't do some type of exercise that strengths the legs and develops proper and powerful root, then why would they move past that and go on to push hands? Push hands is ideal for the pupil who has the bssic exercises, and basic martial techniques down, so they can see where they stand (no pun intended) with their root training. Now this is just my opinion on that matter. >Traditional taekwondo does deep stance work, and that develops strength and flexibility, but I'm still in favor of more dynamic exercises. That solo work is a great adjunct to partner drills, but is not directly applicable to fighting. The more time you spend in horse stance, the less you spend practicing fighting. Yes you're quite right. I just couldn't figure out a good way to explain my point. What I mean is this...and I'm gonna try my hardest to explain clearly what I mean. Ok you're at the gym on the leg press machine, you're pressing 700lbs. You try to stance in a GOOD horse stance, thighs parallel to the ground etc. you only last 30 seconds. Now let's say you train in some form of lower basin exercises, and have worked your way up to 5+mins. Yet at the gym you can't quite press 700lbs on the leg press machine. Now what I was trying to say is you will more likely be in a position where you can use the power developed from horse stance then from the leg press machine, because you're more likely to be in an upright position when fighting then you would in a slanted seated position with both feet pointed at the attacker. That's what I meant. So I was trying to say that you would be more likely to be able to use the benefits of root power from the stance training then from the weight machine. This is not meaning that when in a fight you drop into a horse stance...lol. But from the horse you can use the benefits from it in any stance for powerful root. Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:10:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] video: bridge and root Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thought this might help out those who don't understand root and bridge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zADVb1WmXOc Jye --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:18:48 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Return From Cali Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net McCauley Sa Bom Nim It was great to see you again this year. I hope to see you again at this years Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa. Poole Sa Bom nim (My Instructor) is testing for Chil Dan. I had a great time Thank You for the recognition concerning the region six dan team. They did put many hours of hard work into their performance. I am blessed to have some dedicated students. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:51:21 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Martial Arts Consulting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I find asking a question on this list to be the most valuable resource out there. I too use the MATA materials because I like the online repository system versus the monthly delivery system. I can go into the MATA website as needed and choose something to evaluate and then possible implement at my own pace. The $24.95 a month is discounted through my tuition billing company (pps billing) on a sliding scale based on the number of clients you have. ----------------------- hi charles, you might also want to try the martial arts business group on yahoo. lot of discussions like this. _Martial_Arts_Business@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Martial_Arts_Business@yahoogroups.com) take care, melinda :) Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.445.6636 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "sidona" Organization: Lycos. Inc. To: Subject: [RE][The_Dojang] RE: Root and Center... Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I suppose a better introduction than flying opinions would be nice, so I will give one. My name is Anj, I study a Korean style MA. I am not a professional instructor. I have been watching the discussions for a few weeks. I am not familiar with a majority of the abbreviations used or many of the specific styles, but I am remarkably interested in listening to perspectives. Now, on to the actual reason I chose to speak up rather than simply watch and listen. "The more time you spend in horse stance, the less you spend practicing fighting." Throwing the TKD discussion aside momentarily, a stance is a position of alignment. You don't remain in one stance to fight in, the stance is the moment in your motion where a strike connects or a movement completes. If I choose a front fighting stance and remain in it throughout a sparring match, I'm going to get my head ripped off. I want to flow between a front stance, back stance, L stance, rooted stance, cat stance. I want to dance between stances and in order to have strength in those stances. It takes time practicing them. Practicing a horse stance is a vital foundation of learning to fight, as is practicing any other stance. I beleive that Jye and I are on a similar (if not the same) concept in regards to this. Before arguing, agreeing or otherwise throwing a response, do a form at a slow to moderate speed and feel how many stances you transition through. The practice of remaining in a stance such as a horse stance (or any stance) gives the body a chance to familiarize with the position of that stance and when moving it happens naturally. 'Anything you can do slowly, you can do quickly' is a common phrase I have had rung into my head and has time and again held true. Not a linguist, Anj ---------[ Received Mail Content ]---------- Subject : [The_Dojang] RE: Root and Center... Date : Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:56:18 -0400 From : "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To : , The use of rooting in taekwondo depends on your instructor and style, as does everything. The WTF folks don't do a lot of rooting, but I wouldn't say they didn't have leg strength. Plyometrics seems to take care of them just fine. Gen. Choi's sine wave movement might be closer to rooting, again depending on your instructor. The more hand skills you employ, the more apt you are to use rooting. I'd agree with Jye that however you explain the rooting (qi, biomechanics, etc), the rooting remains the same. I've done some baguazhang, and now that I know what to look for, I believe that some styles of hapkido have been influenced by it. Baguazhang, Xingiquan, Shaolin gongfu, and Praying Mantis gongfu all entered the ROK during the Korean War. Kuksulwon showed the Praying Mantis influence, and Kongshin hapkido showed the Baguazhang and Praying Mantis. I have to disagree with Jye that some form of formal exercise has to be done to develop root, which I think is his point. I'm a big fan of partner drills and one can play with root while doing those (push hands for example, or judo randori), instead of working through a form or solo exercise. Doing it in a partner drill also adds authentic assessment to the practice, and refines root to its most useful form (as long as the partner drills are varied and are as close as possible to the real thing). Jye writes: "A root building exercise like posture holding and then moving using deep stances, then those exercises can be easily used in a combat situation." Traditional taekwondo does deep stance work, and that develops strength and flexibility, but I'm still in favor of more dynamic exercises. That solo work is a great adjunct to partner drills, but is not directly applicable to fighting. The more time you spend in horse stance, the less you spend practicing fighting. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:07:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "s. yates" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Parenting skills 1 on 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "These kinds of postings attacking the poor woman for getitng suckered are really bad. Let's keep the tone of this list useful." Getting suckered? How clear can it be that she was asked, not forced to make a commitment to help her child be successful in the MA's? Probably after the fact that the child had attended several classes and proved that he liked it. What changed? I will reiterate in a non specific way. Someone made a decision to educate their child in something the child wanted to do. The child had a bad day or two and suddenly the child is influencing the parents decisions. What are other educational decisions going to be like? I don't know how to say it any nicer. "If you have to say something negative about her for the sake of the discussion, do it in an academic way instead of an insulting way. Point out the lessons she can learn without offending her. She already admits she made a big mistake." I apologize if the truth isn't so pleasant to people. The lesson to be learned is two fold. One, follow through with your decisions and you may find better results. Two, when you make a commitment, you always can find a way to make it work, hence the word commitment. Communicate with the educator, let that person do their job, and assist you through any hardships. A child will have bad days and good days. Generally a child will show the signs of whether or not they have the capacity to do martial arts in the first few lessons. We rufuse people almost every week, meaning we say "come back in a few months to see if may be right for your child then". After that, if the commitment is made, (which is the parents decision!) we deal with anything that comes our way. We don't quit at the first signs of resistance. Just like in school, if a child has a bad day, emotional conflict, difficulties with a subject, dealing with a bully, etc, we usually don't go to the teacher and say " hey, how do I get out of this". I am sure this person had the best intentions in mind when she made her decision to enroll her child in the program offered. It is just a shame that somewhere along the way, that intention was lost. I deal with these issues on a weekly basis. Parents are busy, they work, take care of their family, deal with school/homework, soccer, dance, etc, we understand this. This is one of the reasons they enroll their children in MA's. They want someone to support them in their efforts to raise a respectable child. I hear it in every one of my conferences. I work every week at keeping both the student and parents on the path that we agreed to establish when they agreed to become a MA student. I hope this level of reasoning is understood by both side of the issue. If both parties make a firm commitment to the childs success, nothing should get in the way. Just my 1/2 cent. SY --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --__--__-- Message: 15 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Parenting skills 1 on 1 From: Mark Galassi Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:15:34 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net s. yates> [...] I apologize if the truth isn't so pleasant to s. yates> people [...] etc... The technical points you make are probably incorrect in many ways, since the world is much more subtle than how you paint it (even the wise cannot see all ends). But that's not the point. The point is that you showed lack of respect by attacking someone's parenting rather than engaging in an intellectual debate on the issues raised by her anecdote. If the debate is properly carried out then your words might end up being "the truth that hurts" (I doubt it), but you will still have showed lack of respect by attacking someone's parenting abilities. Martial arts begin with respect and ends with respect. --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:29:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "s. yates" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Parenting skills 1 on 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "The point is that you showed lack of respect by attacking someone's parenting rather than engaging in an intellectual debate on the issues raised by her anecdote." Take it as you may, kids don't quit, parents do. As mentors and role models in a students life, we should not give up so easy when it comes to someones future. BTW, saying someone was tricked or fooled into signing that agreement also shows a lack of respect not only for that instructors intention, but also the parents intellect. SY --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest