Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:35:19 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #344 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Fight Science (J R Hilland) 2. [RE]Re: [The_Dojang] video: clip (sidona) 3. RE: video: clip (David P. Zapencki) 4. RE: KKW Certification Questions (Rick Clark) 5. RE: good technique (J R Hilland) 6. Re: Small Circle vs BJJ (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 7. Small Circle vs BJJ (Stovall, Craig) 8. Re: Rooting (Jye nigma) 9. RE: Fight Science (David P. Zapencki) 10. RE: RE: good technique (michael tomlinson) 11. RE: Fight Science (michael tomlinson) 12. RE: Fight Science (Jye nigma) 13. From another group: seeking martial arts instruction (Jye nigma) 14. RE: video: clip (Jye nigma) 15. USAT events (Ray Terry) 16. Re: RE: Training Curriculum (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:02:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Fight Science Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This show was on last year, It may have been the discovery channel... JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "sidona" Organization: Lycos. Inc. To: Subject: [RE]Re: [The_Dojang] video: clip Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would guess that this is the first time either one of them has ever done a public demonstration and they were required to create the demo themselves. It has the look of something that would 'look cool' and show off those nice head level kicks you had been practicing. Sometimes when you put a demonstration together you forget that its better to toss those hand techniques in there, throw your partner around a bit, and show your control more than your athleticism. It takes a couple of demos to figure out that an occasional well placed kick makes the crowd wish they were you, while repetitive kicks lose their attention and make martial artists on mailing lists wonder at your style. Kindly, Anj ---------[ Received Mail Content ]---------- Subject : Re: [The_Dojang] video: clip Date : Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:43:32 -0700 (PDT) From : steven riggs To : the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On top of that they seem to have forgotten that they have hands. Two hands are good for blocking kicks and especially handy for hand strikes, reverse punches, ridge hands, back fists etc. They looked athletic ehough but not able to do to well in a real life self-defense encounter. Steven Jye nigma wrote: This is a cool clip to promote competition TKD to some, but as far as self defense, there are too many things wrong...my main focus is lack of balance when executing a technique: http://media.putfile.com/taekwondo--free-fight any thoughts? Jye --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger�s low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Sensei Steven Riggs Senior Instructor American Defensive Arts stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] video: clip Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:37:32 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "On top of that they seem to have forgotten that they have hands. Two hands are good for blocking kicks and especially handy for hand strikes, reverse punches, ridge hands, back fists etc. They looked athletic enough but not able to do to well in a real life self-defense encounter. Steven" Sir, The sparring that these young men are doing has nothing to do with real life self-defense encounters. They seem to be merely practicing for a WTF (Olympic) style match. If you have ever watched a match in the Olympic Venue, you will see the same "handless" posturing over and over again... Dave --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:59:18 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] KKW Certification Questions To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Johnnie, >From: Johnnie Rouse [mailto:rmetals@cmaaccess.com] > >Hi Rick > >I have never felt that some one setting around doing a bashing >program has ever led to a productive end result. It seems to >me that this is the direction this thread is headed. Not from me - well perhaps a bit. I am not fond of the KKW and the direction it has taken TKD. I don't like the way forms are changed, I don't like the way you can be a white belt one day and a 5th dan the next, I don't like the corruption, the bias, I am not keen on the way sparing and competition has taken over, and I don't like the way TKD is run out of Korea. There are enough people in the US and other countries that have the rank, time in the martial arts, and knowledge to be the leaders in their own country and not be under the thumb of an outside force. >I would like to give you a little personal background so you >may understand the context of my comments. > >I was practicing TKD in Korea during the time that the Kwans >were finalizing the unity into the KTA,(I really don't need >any comment on the rest of that story). I was at the ground >breaking for the KKW (National Gym) and also at the Grand >Opening in November 72. I have an extensive background in TKD >and have personally always supported the unity effort and the KKW. Good for you and if you like the KKW then more power to you. > > I find it disconcerting when someone starts cherry picking >and taking pot shots as it appears to me that you have been >doing. I guess I am cherry picking to some extent I have not put out on an email some of the bad stuff I have seen personally. I have been trying to keep it to something everyone knows about. >I know of some of the problems that you have issues >with, many of then have been dealt with, and there is >certainly room for improvements. Most people have the >intellectual ability to know the difference between people >problems and an root organizational problem. I normally find >that people that can't distinguish the difference between the >two are either, least experienced or just plain inherently ignorant. Well I don't think I am a person that is inherently ignorant - but that is open to discussion I suppose. I have been involved in the martial arts since 1962 and have had the good fortune to have traveled quite a bit. When I do get out of the country I hear the same stories, but with different accents. There are problems in TKD and it is not simply a problem in my home state or the US. When someone sits down with you over a beer and starts to tell you what has been going on with them and the problems they are having and I can finish the story for them or tell them that this will be the likely result of the situation something is wrong. > >It is much more impressive to me when someone sees a problem >and works diligently to resolve it. Throwing stones never >seams to settle any issue. I guess it depends on where the stone hits. >So, I would like to know what efforts you have make in order >to help resolve some of the problems you have enumerated? Me? Well I have been in a number of different organizations run by Koreans and a few years back had my fill of the politics, back stabbing, and petty issues and broke away from all of them and would never join such organizations again. Eventually I joined a couple of organizations that so far have been non political and formed my own group. I have members in Australia, Germany, Belgium, Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland, Norway, Sweden, and the US. There are no association dues, rank in the group is at no charge, and the instructors have the independence to teach the curriculum that they want. I will give advice to them when asked. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:08:50 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: good technique Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I have a real problem with that advice. In hapkido, there is an old saying that if you can't get a technique to work, then you should learn how it does. Eliminating it 'from the book', does not help you learn the correct way to perform the technique. In hapkido, there is another old saying that states, "if you don't teach it, who will?" In other words, just because a teacher can't get a technique to work does not mean that the technique is invalid, just that the teacher doesn't know it well enough. Sorry about slamming that quote but it is bad advice on several levels and has been a real issue in hapkido with those who want a fast high dan rank without actually learning the art or its techniques. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:33:09 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Small Circle vs BJJ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JC Cox ("Gladewater SooBahkDo") asked: >What are the thoughts from the Do-Jang on this on Small Circle Jujitsu vs BJJ Since you asked about the chokes, I would say you should have Wally's son Leon show you how he chokes. Be prepared for the neck popping about 3-4 times before submission though. Who was the person that you trained with in Small Circle? There are a lot of flavors of Small Circle, and it varies from person to person. The BJJ guys train for a specific scenario (one on one ring fights), and they do it well. Wally's folks did not train for that. His students all have quite different approaches on how to fight. And IMO a neck break is easier than a choke, especially on against a guy with good conditioning. Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:41:48 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Small Circle vs BJJ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't have experience with the Small Circle system, but I do train in BJJ and other forms of grappling. I think the thing to keep in mind is that there is a big difference between techniques that can work, and techniques that seem to work a large percentage of the time. The rear naked choke that you mentioned is a good example. It's been time tested and proven in sparring, competition, and real world application. It's just one of those things that should be in everyone's toolbox. The "two way wrist" choke that you mentioned, I can't speak to that because I don't know the technique in question. It may be that this technique would have a high percentage of success against most people, but not work very well against a highly trained grappler who is used to being choked and knows the subtle ways of protecting one's neck. The solution? I don't know. What I do know is that the rear naked works against everybody once it is sunk into place, and with a finite amount of time with which to train one must make the decision of what to concentrate on and what to throw out. The danger is in throwing out material that MAY have value that is not immediately apparent. A double edged sword, but one that accompanies any quest for knowledge. What I do know is that one can't stray too far from the path if you spend your time working with resisting opponents. This is one of the strengths of BJJ and other grappling systems. They spend a great amount of their training time working against resisting opponents, and this accelerates the development of skill, knowledge, toughness, and technique. It also cuts through the B.S. and makes readily apparent what material seems to work, and what material doesn't. In the end, you'll have to let your own experience decide. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rooting To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've never heard of that story...what happened? There are some who say that bruce lee was ok but would have met his match against an internal master. I don't know who'd beat who, but I would have loved to have seen it. Jye "Burdick, Dakin Robert" wrote: Jye sent the clip: >speaking of root power: http://www.6rooms.com/watch/21824.html Anybody remember what Bruce Lee did when asked to push a taijiquan master like this on Hong Kong tv? He punched him in the face instead. Worked fine. :) Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fight Science Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:56:13 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net -----Original Message----- This should be of interest - a new show for Sunday Aug 20: "It moves four times faster than a snake. It kicks with more than 1,000 pounds (453.59 kg) of force. And it can rival the impact of a 35 mph (56.33 kph) car crash. It's the most complex weapon ever designed-the human body." http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/fightscience/index.html Enjoy! --------------------------------------------- We did a little follow-up scientific study ourselves last night in the dojang just to verify some of the claims of the upcoming show... One of the guys pulled a timber rattler out of a sack and, sure enough, I moved four times faster, even slipping in my own s**t... We of course didn't have the big budget that National Geographic has, so we had to improvise with the crash dummy, we used one of our junior blackbelts, Rob, figuring that he was about the same height, weight and I.Q. as the dummies used by the channel. We kicked him real hard, and after regaining consciousness he verified that he indeed felt like he had just gotten in a car wreck... More investigation is to follow, and we will keep all of you informed... Dave --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: good technique Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:04:51 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere, I couldn't agree more...just because someone can't get something to work "most" of the time lies with them and their training and not the technique....or I should say their LACK of training and understanding...I figure that if it is in Hapkido and is under the auspice of Choi Yong Sool, Ji Han Jae, Chong S.Kim, Bong Soo Han, He Young Kim, J.R.West, Hal Whalen, Rudy Timmerman and many other great Hapkido Masters...then who am I to say something doesn't work...more training with good masters..less ego and less wanting to start your own system or write a Hapkido book just because you have had some lessons and can speak English and use Microsoft Word..that is my theory anyway...I could be wrong...nah...no I'm not..... Michael Tomlinson >From: "J R Hilland" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: good technique >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:08:50 -0500 > ><<book">>> > >I have a real problem with that advice. In hapkido, there is an old saying >that if you can't get a technique to work, then you should learn how it >does. Eliminating it 'from the book', does not help you learn the correct >way to perform the technique. In hapkido, there is another old saying that >states, "if you don't teach it, who will?" In other words, just because a >teacher can't get a technique to work does not mean that the technique is >invalid, just that the teacher doesn't know it well enough. Sorry about >slamming that quote but it is bad advice on several levels and has been a >real issue in hapkido with those who want a fast high dan rank without >actually learning the art or its techniques. Jere R. Hilland >www.hapkidoselfdefense.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fight Science Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:08:43 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net NOW THAT IS TRULY FUNNY!!! Michael Tomlinson >From: "David P. Zapencki" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fight Science >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:56:13 -0500 > >-----Original Message----- > >This should be of interest - a new show for Sunday Aug 20: > >"It moves four times faster than a snake. >It kicks with more than 1,000 pounds (453.59 kg) of force. >And it can rival the impact of a 35 mph (56.33 kph) car crash. >It's the most complex weapon ever designed-the human body." > >http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/fightscience/index.html > >Enjoy! > >--------------------------------------------- > >We did a little follow-up scientific study ourselves last night in the >dojang just to verify some of the claims of the upcoming show... > >One of the guys pulled a timber rattler out of a sack and, sure enough, I >moved four times faster, even slipping in my own s**t... > >We of course didn't have the big budget that National Geographic has, so we >had to improvise with the crash dummy, we used one of our junior >blackbelts, >Rob, figuring that he was about the same height, weight and I.Q. as the >dummies used by the channel. We kicked him real hard, and after regaining >consciousness he verified that he indeed felt like he had just gotten in a >car wreck... > >More investigation is to follow, and we will keep all of you informed... > >Dave >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:23:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fight Science To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm interested in seeing a similar show but comparing internal styles with external styles, to see if the claims of internal are really what many think. Jye --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:27:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From another group: seeking martial arts instruction Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I got this from another group...maybe someone who teaches korean sword might gain another student. Jye I am not a martial artist... Yet. But I want to be. I want to learn the Katana and I heard that the Japanese version of Jiu Jitsu is very complimentary to it. I live in the northern half of Georgia. Does anyone know of schools in North Georgia that teach Jiu Jitsu, Japanese sword fighting (katana), or something similar to any of those? Any help would be extremely appreciated. Thanks Josh --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] video: clip To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Someone should create a show were different 'brands' of TKD come together to competition against each other. GTF vs WTF vs ITF, etc etc etc oh yeah full contact, continuous sparring. Jye "David P. Zapencki" wrote: Sir, The sparring that these young men are doing has nothing to do with real life self-defense encounters. They seem to be merely practicing for a WTF (Olympic) style match. If you have ever watched a match in the Olympic Venue, you will see the same "handless" posturing over and over again... Dave _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:08:33 -0700 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] USAT events Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Upcoming USAT- sanctioned events in 2006... 2006 Jimmy Kim Invitational The Pyramid at CSU Long Beach 1250 Bellflower Blvd. Long Beach, CA 90840 September 23, 2006 Contact: Jimmy Kim Phone: 949-363-6688 Website: www.JKTC.com 5th International Friendship Taekwondo Championship Oregon Convention Center 777 NE Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. Portland, Ore. 97232 Oct. 6-7, 2006 Contact: Scott Stickle (503) 820-2234 Website: www.IOFTC.org 2006 Beach Cities Taekwondo Championships Veterans Sports Complex 22400 Moneta Ave. Carson, CA 90745 Oct. 21, 2006 Contact: Randy Chambliss 310-791-2970 Website: www.tkdevents.com Maui International Taekwondo Championship War Memorial Gym 700 Hali'a Nakoa Street Unit 2 Wailuku, HI 96793 Nov. 11-12, 2006 Contact: Kathryn Kiffmann Email: kiffmanntkd@hawaii.rr.com Website: www.mauiinternationaltkd.com/ --__--__-- Message: 16 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Training Curriculum To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Greetings to All! > > I don't usually post because I consider myself very junior in the teaching > world and I prefer to lurk and learn; .... FWIW, this list is not for teachers/instructors only. We need the students out there to ask questions and to challenge the responses. As one instructor friend told me, we can't just answer the questions, we must also question the answers. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest