Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 19:17:18 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #347 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. TSD in Indiana (Frank Clay) 2. BJJ & Small Circle (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 3. Re:How to control fraud (sidtkd@aol.com) 4. Bruce Lee (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 5. RE: Re:How to control fraud (Thomas Gordon) 6. RE: Bruce Lee (Thomas Gordon) 7. Re: Re:How to control greed (Ray) 8. KKW certs. (Johnnie Rouse) 9. Re: RE: Hapkido techniques that "don't work" (michael tomlinson) 10. Judo Gene (Ray) 11. RE: KKW certs. (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:18:33 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD in Indiana Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Riggs, TSD is not very big in the Carmel area. Actually its not very big in Indianapolis. In carmel, the best school is in the town center and is a Kenpo school. Not too far from Carmel is a Chung Do Kwan school. I have never heard anything bad about that school. I have a good friend who has been thinking of teaching and is a sa dan in TKD MDK. Now, I have to say that he trained with Master Ahn and his training is very traditional. They are associates of the USTW. I did a clinic for some of his students focusing on basic joint locks and projections and they were very competent. I'll ask him for permission to provide you his contact information. I would train with him. KTA is a big school there but I think I'd shy away from big schools. There are a number of Japanese style schools and something 4 Aikido schools. Hope this helps. (I used to live in Indy.) Also, I don't know if he teaches or not but one of our esteemed list members, Dakin Burdick, is also in Indy. Or at least he was. He can clarify further on that point. Let me know if I can help out in any way. Frank --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:18:43 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] BJJ & Small Circle Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JC Ross wrote: To answer yur question about my small circle experiance. I trained with Mr. John Willy of Hawaii. He was a student threre while in the Military. .... I feel very comfortable with the two way wrist action of the small circle system ......In some ways the finger and small join work is a great self defense value, but can't be done in the cage. My reply: I don't know John Willy, but if a choke you've been taught doesn't work, I would say to look at some others. Wally Jay called this "borrowing" and his system was full of borrowing. The "two way action" was actually something he learned from his judo instructor. :) So learn when you have the opportunity to do so, but just keep in an open mind, always. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:45:47 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:How to control fraud Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As long as there are many among us who have NOT been ripped off, have NOT been denied high rank because we are NOT Korean, and as long as we have NOT been victimized by the lethargy of the Kukkiwon; nothing will change. I truly believe that in time the insidious mess that is world wide WTF will reach a boiling point and we will find each nation becoming somewhat more independent. Ultimately, one or more countries, probably a country such as Australia that has a national martial arts governing body, will start to demonstrate some teeth in disciplining fraud. We have waited far too long when it came to the likes of the chubby wannabee in terms of his being censured. In that case he was censured by public sentiment and not officially. Some time ago I won a civil case in court in Queens,NY against an instructor that accepted a kukkiwon fee from me and never delivered. I get e-mails from various lawyers regarding how the case was successful. The more you fight the more you learn how corrupt this is. My biggest shock came when TKD Times tried to censure me from exposing this fraud. The answer to Terry and others...do nothing and in time the crisis will grow and we will have the courts taking a larger role or we could back an existing martial arts organization or perhaps form a brand new one that would help create a rational and honest system. AAU taekwondo is in such a position or ISA or anything new. I have to ask...why is this a problem among martial artists? If a teacher does something wrong the state education department will discipline him as well as a million other professions and their government oversight agencies. We live in a self-serving world where martial artists believe they are more noble, have greater virtue and are above government supervision. Ohhhh...if only that were true! Sid --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:47:38 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce Lee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wrote: Anybody remember what Bruce Lee did when asked to push a taijiquan master like this on Hong Kong tv? He punched him in the face instead. Worked fine. :) Jye wrote: I've never heard of that story...what happened? There are some who say that bruce lee was ok but would have met his match against an internal master. My reply: Bruce punched him in the face on national (Hong Kong) television. Everyone thought he had been very disrespectful, especially because the taijiquan master he punched was quite older than Bruce. Bruce's argument was "I don't push, I punch." The taijiquan master wanted Bruce to build his reputation by playing his game, and Bruce saw through that. To maintain his reputation, he punched the guy. I'm not saying it was right, but it wasn't a bad response. In his personal training he was very interested in not only looking good for the movies, but also in being able to fight efficiently. But he also was very quick to fight, and that rankled with many martial artists of the day. As far as being beaten by an internal master, didn't "Judo" Gene LeBell choke him out one time? Does that count? :) Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com I don't know who'd beat who, but I would have loved to have seen it. Jye "Burdick, Dakin Robert" wrote: Jye sent the clip: >speaking of root power: http://www.6rooms.com/watch/21824.html Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. -- __--__-- Message: 9 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fight Science Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:56:13 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net -----Original Message----- This should be of interest - a new show for Sunday Aug 20: "It moves four times faster than a snake. It kicks with more than 1,000 pounds (453.59 kg) of force. And it can rival the impact of a 35 mph (56.33 kph) car crash. It's the most complex weapon ever designed-the human body." http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/fightscience/index.html Enjoy! --------------------------------------------- We did a little follow-up scientific study ourselves last night in the dojang just to verify some of the claims of the upcoming show... One of the guys pulled a timber rattler out of a sack and, sure enough, I moved four times faster, even slipping in my own s**t... We of course didn't have the big budget that National Geographic has, so we had to improvise with the crash dummy, we used one of our junior blackbelts, Rob, figuring that he was about the same height, weight and I.Q. as the dummies used by the channel. We kicked him real hard, and after regaining consciousness he verified that he indeed felt like he had just gotten in a car wreck... More investigation is to follow, and we will keep all of you informed... Dave -- __--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: good technique Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:04:51 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere, I couldn't agree more...just because someone can't get something to work "most" of the time lies with them and their training and not the technique....or I should say their LACK of training and understanding...I figure that if it is in Hapkido and is under the auspice of Choi Yong Sool, Ji Han Jae, Chong S.Kim, Bong Soo Han, He Young Kim, J.R.West, Hal Whalen, Rudy Timmerman and many other great Hapkido Masters...then who am I to say something doesn't work...more training with good masters..less ego and less wanting to start your own system or write a Hapkido book just because you have had some lessons and can speak English and use Microsoft Word..that is my theory anyway...I could be wrong...nah...no I'm not..... Michael Tomlinson >From: "J R Hilland" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: good technique >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:08:50 -0500 > ><<book">>> > >I have a real problem with that advice. In hapkido, there is an old saying >that if you can't get a technique to work, then you should learn how it >does. Eliminating it 'from the book', does not help you learn the correct >way to perform the technique. In hapkido, there is another old saying that >states, "if you don't teach it, who will?" In other words, just because a >teacher can't get a technique to work does not mean that the technique is >invalid, just that the teacher doesn't know it well enough. Sorry about >slamming that quote but it is bad advice on several levels and has been a >real issue in hapkido with those who want a fast high dan rank without >actually learning the art or its techniques. Jere R. Hilland >www.hapkidoselfdefense.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fight Science Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:08:43 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net NOW THAT IS TRULY FUNNY!!! Michael Tomlinson >From: "David P. Zapencki" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fight Science >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:56:13 -0500 > >-----Original Message----- > >This should be of interest - a new show for Sunday Aug 20: > >"It moves four times faster than a snake. >It kicks with more than 1,000 pounds (453.59 kg) of force. >And it can rival the impact of a 35 mph (56.33 kph) car crash. >It's the most complex weapon ever designed-the human body." > >http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/fightscience/index.html > >Enjoy! > >--------------------------------------------- > >We did a little follow-up scientific study ourselves last night in the >dojang just to verify some of the claims of the upcoming show... > >One of the guys pulled a timber rattler out of a sack and, sure enough, I >moved four times faster, even slipping in my own s**t... > >We of course didn't have the big budget that National Geographic has, so we >had to improvise with the crash dummy, we used one of our junior >blackbelts, >Rob, figuring that he was about the same height, weight and I.Q. as the >dummies used by the channel. We kicked him real hard, and after regaining >consciousness he verified that he indeed felt like he had just gotten in a >car wreck... > >More investigation is to follow, and we will keep all of you informed... > >Dave >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -- __--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:23:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fight Science To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm interested in seeing a similar show but comparing internal styles with external styles, to see if the claims of internal are really what many think. Jye --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:27:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From another group: seeking martial arts instruction Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I got this from another group...maybe someone who teaches korean sword might gain another student. Jye I am not a martial artist... Yet. But I want to be. I want to learn the Katana and I heard that the Japanese version of Jiu Jitsu is very complimentary to it. I live in the northern half of Georgia. Does anyone know of schools in North Georgia that teach Jiu Jitsu, Japanese sword fighting (katana), or something similar to any of those? Any help would be extremely appreciated. Thanks Josh --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] video: clip To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Someone should create a show were different 'brands' of TKD come together to competition against each other. GTF vs WTF vs ITF, etc etc etc oh yeah full contact, continuous sparring. Jye "David P. Zapencki" wrote: Sir, The sparring that these young men are doing has nothing to do with real life self-defense encounters. They seem to be merely practicing for a WTF (Olympic) style match. If you have ever watched a match in the Olympic Venue, you will see the same "handless" posturing over and over again... Dave _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. -- __--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:08:33 -0700 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] USAT events Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Upcoming USAT- sanctioned events in 2006... 2006 Jimmy Kim Invitational The Pyramid at CSU Long Beach 1250 Bellflower Blvd. Long Beach, CA 90840 September 23, 2006 Contact: Jimmy Kim Phone: 949-363-6688 Website: www.JKTC.com 5th International Friendship Taekwondo Championship Oregon Convention Center 777 NE Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. Portland, Ore. 97232 Oct. 6-7, 2006 Contact: Scott Stickle (503) 820-2234 Website: www.IOFTC.org 2006 Beach Cities Taekwondo Championships Veterans Sports Complex 22400 Moneta Ave. Carson, CA 90745 Oct. 21, 2006 Contact: Randy Chambliss 310-791-2970 Website: www.tkdevents.com Maui International Taekwondo Championship War Memorial Gym 700 Hali'a Nakoa Street Unit 2 Wailuku, HI 96793 Nov. 11-12, 2006 Contact: Kathryn Kiffmann Email: kiffmanntkd@hawaii.rr.com Website: www.mauiinternationaltkd.com/ -- __--__-- Message: 16 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Training Curriculum To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Greetings to All! > > I don't usually post because I consider myself very junior in the teaching > world and I prefer to lurk and learn; .... FWIW, this list is not for teachers/instructors only. We need the students out there to ask questions and to challenge the responses. As one instructor friend told me, we can't just answer the questions, we must also question the answers. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re:How to control fraud Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "If a teacher does something wrong the state education department will discipline him as well as a million other professions and their government oversight agencies." A few problems are that we aren't regulated professionals. Should that ever happen, the heavily debated national average of $125 will likely double & triple as the folks firmly set on "not selling out" and teaching for the art will be long gone. If you doubt it, look how many doctors we have working out their home, school teachers teaching at the local YMCA, etc. The idea of having a martial art FCAT doesn't thrill me. Then we can teach our students how to pass the sacred test instead of learning to really read and write....I mean defend themselves. A regulated and licensed professional means money - lots of money. We spend about $5-8K a month to stay in line with my professional license. That means overhead - business 101 demands that customers pay for everything if a fella intends to stay in business. So the $45 monthly rate at the local community center is long gone just as the part time instructors will be. I don't think I've ever met a part time doctor or school teacher. Also, a difference to consider is school teachers (and education as a whole) gets a huge budget in every state's taxation plus federal taxation benefits. Right now we're probably over 50% in taxation. Although a totally different and off topic subject, how much more can we bear? http://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html About 60% of my property tax goes to education - imagine if we add martial art instructors. Heck, might as well add dance, gymnastics, cheer, etc. And I'm not fusin about supporting the government (give unto Caesar what is his....) - I fusin about HOW MUCH support it needs and the prospect of being MORE regulated and needing MORE taxes dictated by politicians who only seem to know how to raise taxes and throw money at problems. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Bruce Lee Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:38:24 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "As far as being beaten by an internal master, didn't 'Judo' Gene LeBell choke him (Bruce Lee) out one time?" LOL! I met Mr. LeBell about a month ago. From what I could tell in the 30-60 minutes I got to be around him, he's a wild card. Heck of a nice guy, funny, and scolds anyone that doesn't call him "Gene." (Yeah, I got scolded a few times....) I think he choked out most everyone. The story of Steven Segall is pretty funny if you don't mind dealing with Segal's lawyers saying it never happened. Gene Lebell was the presenter for Chuck Norris for a Hall of Fame award. On Norris' acceptance spiel, he told how Gene LeBell choked him out very quickly saying you gotta feel the technique in order to deliver the technique. While at the seminars, I bet LeBell choked out a dozen guys. People would voluntarily get choked out to get a "I've been choked out by Gene LeBell" patch. I didn't need one.... He just released his autobiography and it was very interesting and entertaining. The list of people who trained under him is very impressive. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:How to control greed To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >As long as there are many among us who have NOT been ripped off, have NOT >been denied high rank because we are NOT Korean, and as long as we have NOT >been victimized by the lethargy of the Kukkiwon; nothing will change. How were you victimized by the kukkiwon? It seems you weren't. You were victimized by people that were not affiliated with the kukkiwon, they took your $$ for something they could tell you were anxious to buy. It seems all too often people are blinded by their own greed for rank. Else how would so many have been ripped-off by the likes of chubby grandmaster wannabe and the highly obvious and multiple scams he was running, namely the various bogus orgs set up to scam $$ from those anxious to -buy- dan certs. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:51:50 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KKW certs. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Rick: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Hapkido techniques that "don't work" Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 16:28:29 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Great advice...and again I love the fact that we as humans will spend a lifetime studying a subject such as music, or whatever, but think that becoming proficient at unarmed physical fighting should be quicker...like getting your training drive thru style......awareness is IMHO one of the best things you can ever develop... Michael Tomlinson >From: Ray >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Hapkido techniques that "don't work" >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:10:33 -0700 (PDT) > > > One thing I think that has bothered me with this mentality is that while >it works as a gradual improvement of ability in many areas, we are talking >about *martial* arts, here. Practicing a technique a thousand times is >nice in order to master it, but as I used to tell my first instructor "I >have a gig this Saturday..I'll be playing at a bar...if something goes >wrong...I need something *now* that will work at my level of experience >after having practiced it maybe a few dozen times" I can't choose the time >and place of an encounter, so I can't rely on just learning techniques that >are going to take me years to execute properly and decades to master. As >an abstract art form, that would work, as a "get my butt out of trouble"..I >need to mix in something that can be practical today...tonight...this week, >as well. > > > > > >I hear ya... but even if I recommended that you get your CCW and carry >and handgun to deal with things that go wrong, it still takes time and >training to employ that tool effectively. There isn't much that you can >really depend on after only a dozen or so practice sessions. You probably >didn't learn how to play music very well after only a few practice >sessions. > >However one thing that I can think of would be to have you work on your >state of awareness of what is going on around you. Live in Condition >Yellow. > >Condition White is when you are daydreaming, paying no attention to what is >going on. In Condition Yellow you notice the clouds in the sky, the birds >in the trees and that fellow in the T-shirt walking up behind you. In >Condition Orange you are starting to get the sense that something might >be about to go wrong, so your senses are peaked and you begin thinking >about >how to gain distance from the situation, etc. In Condition Red you are >certain >that something is going wrong, you are now running down the street or >finding >cover or grabbing the nearest weapon. In Condition Black you are in the >fight, >taking rounds from down range getting punched in the face, or something >similarly bothersome. > >A similar color scheme is, or was, used by the military, but the above adds >one more level to make it more applicable for use by civilians. > >Getting a student to live in a state of Condition Yellow is one of the >quickest lessons you can teach someone. It is not living in a state of >paranoia, it is simply being aware of and enjoying the world around you. > >Of course, the problem with Condition White is that you don't notice what >is going on around you. So you can easily end up in Condition Black before >you even know what is going on. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 17:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Judo Gene Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > He just released his autobiography and it was very interesting and > entertaining. The list of people who trained under him is very > impressive. Judo Gene is fursure the real deal. Those that have earned a black belt under him comprise a very short list. One surprising name on that list is "Rowdy" Roddy Piper. I think it was in the Chuck Norris movie "Force of One" where Gene is the ring ref. In his instructions to the fighters he says something like, "And none of that wrestling crap!". Funny given who it is saying it... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:17:44 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] KKW certs. To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Johnnie, >From: Johnnie Rouse [mailto:rmetals@cmaaccess.com] >Hi Rick: > >anything that was That makes me feel great, because what I said could have >been taken the wrong way by some. You didn't miss anything, as >a matter of fact I think you took any of my comments for >exactly what they are, my own opinion. It is obvious that you >and I have differences there but that is fine by me and I fill >certain you too. Of course we have different opinions! We did not have the same experience, teachers, and background. Everything that comes from me comes from that just as your comes from your background. > > >the Kwan) - newer form in sparing is - not to mention changing the forms I liked the Pyung-ahn Hyongs also, and from time to time >have a chance to work with someone practicing them. But I >never saw them as the "Holey Grail" of gup grade motions. Not only the gup but the dan forms as well - Balsek, Chulgi, Sipso, Kung San Kun etc. > I do however think they do represent a significant part in TKD >history, and therefore deserve preservation. The way I look at it the "masters" of the Kwan learned these forms and taught them. The forms of course came from Okinawa and were transmitted to Japan then Korea. So from my point of view if it's not broken why try to fix it? > I am sure that the Taeguek poomses are in for big changes >in the not to distant future. We'll probably hear the same >thing about them in the next 20 years or so. I doubt that - here is my bone of contention with changing the forms. The Koreans have not a clue as to the self defense applications of the forms, yet they decide to change the forms around to make them more "Korean". Some time back I wrote an article in TKD Times about the number of kicks and hand movements in the forms and how the Koreans have increased the number of kicking techniques with each progressive set of forms - in my opinion - to make them more "Korean" in flavor. All of the newer forms are simply "blender" forms as far as I am concerned - take the movements from the old forms (Pyung-ahn, Balsek, Chulgi, etc.) mix them around and now you have "new" forms but in reality they are simply a remix of the old ones. OK - the stances may vary in height - width, kicks were added that may not have been in the old forms, but by and large its nothing new. > The point is there is no one saying not to teach "Old >Style Sparring" or Pyung-ahn motions, it's great if you do, as >far as I can tell. I also think you should also keep up with >the latest curriculum as well. I have not seen anything to convince me that I should keep up with the new curriculum. I really don't like the forms, I REALLY don't like the sparing with the emphasis on tournaments. The movement away from a martial art to a martial sport is not something I have any interest in keeping up with. > >KKW..... Ok, you've got me here, what is the KKW agenda? Well what about making it THE central organization for TKD - getting TKD in and keeping it as a Olympic "sport" - can't you think of anything else? Rick Clark > >Johnnie Rouse --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest