Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:39:19 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #348 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Kukkiwon (Rick Clark) 2. Re: Sur reply to Mike and Ray (sidtkd@aol.com) 3. Re: Kukkiwon (Ray) 4. Re: Re: Sur reply to Mike and Ray (Ray) 5. Not True Ray (Frank Clay) 6. Martial arts man is sent to prison (Thomas Gordon) 7. RE: Re: Sur reply to Mike and Ray (Thomas Gordon) 8. Re: Not True Ray (Ray) 9. KKW certs Centered in Korea (Johnnie Rouse) 10. Condition White/Yellow/Orange/Red/Black (Ray) 11. =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Taekwondo=92s_Popularity_High?= (The_Dojang) 12. USAT Feedback Page (The_Dojang) 13. Great training (Ray) 14. RE: KKW certs Centered in Korea (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:26:09 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, >>> Just how would the kukkiwon or the KHF or the [insert large >>> org here] do that? >> >> Is that really our problem? The KKW made a choice to run things the >> way the want and with that they must be responsible for the >mess they >> make. To say that they can't do anything because they are so >large and >> cover so many countries is really not a good excuse. Sun Tzu in the >> Art of War said something like to control 10,000 you only need to be >> able to control 10. In other words delegate authority downward and >> enforce rules and regulations. When someone does not do >their job you >> fire them. BUT - the KKW does not want to do that because if they >> would do that it would cut off funds and members. The numbers of >> members and the money make them strong. BUT it is their weak point >> because they are afraid to kick out some big instructors who >may have >> hundreds of students under them. > >You seem to be confusing things like the WTF, the KTA, the >other ~200 NGBs and the kukkiwon. Or perhaps you are just >using the term kukkiwon to refer to all the above. I'm not >really sure. > >Still waiting for a positive discussion and some useful ideas... For me it really does not matter what the organization is - the KKW is a big target so . . . . The bottom line for me is when you get a big organization and they don't police their members, or take action against those who use their name and rip people off there is no reason for me to support them in any way shape or form. Why should I? If they want to be a big deal in the world of the martial arts they will need to be able to regulate themselves, and if there are problems solve them so that students and instructors are not taken advantage of. If it takes getting a hoard of lawyers going after those who abuse their organizations name then they need to do it and do it quick. Make an example of a few and others will not be so likely to follow in their footsteps. Bottom line it that it's THEIR problem and THEY need to solve it or expect that people will throw stones at them and not join, drop out, or join organizations that are responsive to the needs of their members. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 2 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 00:07:11 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sur reply to Mike and Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On the arguement that licensing would raise the taekwondo fees and make it cost prohibitive allow me to say that is a fallacious arguement. My teaching license cost me $50...one time! A medical license cost $150...one time! I don't get it. You mean to say you haven't heard of unsafe facilities? Of child abuse? Of rip-off masters??? Ohhh...you made a point about dance studios etc. They do pay a license fee in New York and do quite well. Noooo...there is only one defense for this...you believe we are spiritually endowed and above it all. So far it's unregulated...give it two-three years and see. Now Ray...I agree with one thing you said sort of. The kukkiwon didn't victimize me that's sort of true. But appeals to them regarding fraud etc went unheeded. Their refusal to even talk to people ripping-off students is abusive. Now as to my being ripped off as a function of MY greed is preposterous at best. You are making the victim the perpetrator. I tested for rank...I passed with flying colors and exceeded the requirments for the test voluntarily. I waited the appropriate length of time plus one year and paid $500 to a so-called master that promised kukkiwon certification and didn't deliver. I sued him and got the money back. He was part of the chubby wannabees organization and you have the nerve to say it was MY greed!!!??? Sid --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > For me it really does not matter what the organization is - the KKW is a > big target so . . . . The bottom line for me is when you get a big > organization and they don't police their members, Sorry, I don't know any members of the kukkiwon. Even those that are ranked high enough to recommend dan rank are not kukkiwon members. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Sur reply to Mike and Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Now Ray...I agree with one thing you said sort of. The kukkiwon didn't >victimize me that's sort of true. But appeals to them regarding fraud etc went >unheeded. Their refusal to even talk to people ripping-off students is abusive. And just how do you know someone didn't 'talk' to the person you went to regarding buying a Dan cert? Simply because the end result wasn't what you had hoped for? Seems like people want to make lots of assumptions of how things should be when they don't really understand how things are. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 09:03:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Not True Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You said << Else how would so many have been ripped-off by the likes of chubby grandmaster wannabe and the highly obvious and multiple scams he was running, namely the various bogus orgs set up to scam $$ from those anxious to -buy- dan certs.>> This is not what happens. He brought in people that made you work. They really did and some of the people he brought in from Korea, I'd really like to work with again. There was no buying anything... at least in the case of several people that I know. How he was able to do it is that he did get you training. You'd pay dearly for it. ($ point 1). Then you'd test for rank ($ point 2). For an additional fee, and this is the part that got him in trouble, you have to pay an additional fee if you wanted an official rank from Korea... AFTER getting a lecture on how important official recognition was. It wasn't a cert buying program from the point of view of the student. I trained with some great Koreans... I even got to train with Yoon Dae Un on numerous occasions with the last time being supervised by Lee, Jae Whan (one of the KHF directors). One of the things that we found out is that he would claim everyone present at a seminar as his student to the visiting Korean teacher. That made it look like he had a very successful school. In my case, the story began to unravel when I saw unopened cellophane wrapped packages of KTMS dan certificates. For the record, the KHF told me personally that had his KHF certs not had the signature of someone else, they would be considered valid KHF kwan certificates. Anyone running a valid KHF kwan has the right to use the logo on their certificate. I'll bet this has since changed but that is what I was told in very broken English. I talked at length to Master Han Bong Soo about this and it was his opinion that the root cause is because we as Americans do not know what is important in regards to Dan certificates. We believe that we need something that we do not need. He used himself as an example. He said he did not have KHF certification and what good would it do him when he was senior to Oh Se Lim. His point was that it is more important to learn and absorb lessons than it is to deal with a faceless body that has never seen you practice. I agree with him. I think though that the problem is that we are all involved in an endeavor that teaches respect, honor and discipline. That can sometimes blind you as it did me. I literally grew up in the martial arts and so I really believed this stuff... only to find out the hard way that not everyone subscribes to the same mores. My case wasn't a matter of wanting to buy rank. I followed an instructor I had trained with when I was younger to that group. As a result, I no longer speak with this individual. The final straw for me was when he tried to tell me that the rank I received was not valid because it wasn't from him and then he held out his rank as being legitimate, when we both tested in front of the same Korean test panel. Anyhow, I think that this "brief" story illustrates the risk of blanket statements. Most of the teachers I met were not trying to buy anything. They were just convinced they needed something they didn't. Frank --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:54:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial arts man is sent to prison Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This guy.....jeesh. I love the last line. As if he wants a cookie for not committing assault for the past 10 years. You're SUPPOSED to obey the law - no ataboys for doing what is expected. *sigh* http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1109&Article ID=1707994 A MARTIAL arts fighter was jailed for 12 months for a street attack that left a man with a dislocated shoulder. "Prolific" Hartlepool criminal Dean Paul Malham injured his victim so badly that he needed two operations in which doctors fitted a screw to the bone, Teesside Crown Court heard. The man has to have further surgery to remove it. Judge Anthony Briggs sentenced Malham, who admitted grievous bodily harm, to a year behind bars and told him: "It seems you have difficulty controlling your temper and alcohol consumption and you have tendencies to be abusive, threatening and disorderly. Custody is inevitable." Prosecutor Robert Moore said the attack took place in Raby Road, on October 29 last year, when the victim was walking home from a night out with his partner and another couple. Malham, 27, of Caxton Grove, in the Rift House area, approached asking the victim "if he wanted some". The court heard that his "shouting and abuse" soon turned to violence and he lunged for the man and knocked him to the floor. Then Malham - who has 80 previous convictions, including offences of violence, theft and one of drugs - punched him so many times that he lost consciousness, the court heard. Mr Moore said: "When he recovered he was in immense pain with soreness to his shoulder. "He has had to have two operations since." In a police interview, Malham claimed he was acting in self-defence but also added that "he was trained in martial arts and was trained to knock people unconscious", said Mr Moore. Mitigating, Paul Cleasby said Malham never intended to dislocate the man's shoulder but it was rather the force of the fall that caused the injury. He said: "He does have a number of previous convictions and it is right to say that in his youth he appeared to be prolific. "But he does appear to have calmed down somewhat in his rate of offending. "The last time he committed an assault before this one was 10 years ago." 19 August 2006 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Sur reply to Mike and Ray Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 09:00:32 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid Rubinfeld said, "On the arguement that licensing would raise the taekwondo fees and make it cost prohibitive allow me to say that is a fallacious arguement. My teaching license cost me $50...one time! A medical license cost $150...one time!" Mr. Rubinfeld, Thank you for considering my post. Yes, in Florida, all professionally licensed people are required to renew their license every year or couple of years. Every professional must attend continuing education courses (courses cost money, time off from work costs money, revenue lost while I'm hangin out in class costs more money). Every professional must carry a certain amount of insurance which is quiet preposterous and we've never claimed on that insurance. I bet we could save $1000 a month just going down to a reasonable insurance. Every professional has regulations that require notification when advertising or corresponding. There's more with new manners in which to comply and paying someone to keep up with all this mess because if we don't, I'll lose my license and therefore my livelihood. Much of this applies to "for profit" professionals and school teachers may not be privy to all of it. With that said, everyone knows private schools are expensive. There's a reason why. Sid Rubinfeld said, "I don't get it. You mean to say you haven't heard of unsafe facilities? Of child abuse? Of rip-off masters???" I read this and reread it. I don't know if you mean school teachers or martial artists. Regulation isn't the answer to this and we're as likely to read/see a perverted school teacher as we are an instructor. Sid Rubinfeld said, "Ohhh...you made a point about dance studios etc. They do pay a license fee in New York and do quite well. Noooo...there is only one defense for this...you believe we are spiritually endowed and above it all. So far it's unregulated...give it two-three years and see." Well, I do always find it interesting when someone else, whom I've never met, tells me what I believe....especially when they're wrong. I never like the idea of politicians being involved. Poly meaning many. Tics meaning blood sucking organism. When professional boards are set up, who do you think will be sitting on the Florida board but none other than some Hack? Even if not, I'm not real enthused with the idea of a room full alpha males (aka the licensing panel) deciding whether or not some new guy teaches real martial arts. Consider how hard it is to get a doctor out of business. Typically it's by the lawsuits - many times the suspension of license is merely a formality. Teachers typically lose their job and no one will hire them afterwards - of course teachers aren't personally selling their services to every student either.... If you think KKW politics suck, stay away from KKW. That's what I did when I found someone getting political with me - I stepped back - way back. Made me lose a lot of respect for them. When we were first going independent, I was looking at KKW at one time and decided to go the ITF route instead - just made more sense for us. I had a guy offer to bring me in at my current rank through KKW but I declined. Just before that I got snuckered by someone and got away from him - but he was licking his wounds long after I was gone...still is. I gotta good thing going with my two certifying organizations of Grandmaster Timmerman (NKMAA) and Grand Master Hwang (ITF). I'm happy where I'm at. With all of this said, as a business, we are regulated. And this talk of government regulation is not going to really affect KKW or ITF anyway because they simply offer a piece of paper based on the instructor's recommendation who has hopefully completed their instructor course and trained heavily with the upper masters and grandmasters. Our martial art school does have a business license. There is laws about financing. There are ways a consumer can get justice just as you did. And if I ever see anything coming down Florida legislation about professional licensing, I'll be in Tallahassee lobbying against it. Although truthfully, it would be good for business because it would force everyone to raise their rates and slowly push the part timers out. Personally, I'd hate to see that - professionally...not so bad. Sorry for the long post - thanks for taking the time if you're reading this. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Not True Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > You said << Else how would so many have been ripped-off by the likes of > chubby grandmaster wannabe and the highly obvious and multiple scams he was > running, namely the various bogus orgs set up to scam $$ from those anxious > to -buy- dan certs.>> > > This is not what happens. He brought in people that made you work. They > really did and some of the people he brought in from Korea, I'd really like > to work with again. There was no buying anything... at least in the case of > several people that I know. > > How he was able to do it is that he did get you training. You'd pay dearly > for it. ($ point 1). Then you'd test for rank ($ point 2). For an additional > fee, and this is the part that got him in trouble, you have to pay an > additional fee if you wanted an official rank from Korea... AFTER getting a > lecture on how important official recognition was. It wasn't a cert buying > program from the point of view of the student. ... Well, I'm not so sure... How did so many end up -buying- bogus certs from him? From bogus dan certs to bogus master or grandmaster certs... claiming to come from the kukkiwon or the khf or the kta or groups that did not even exist in korea. This is the only way your average Joe could end up -buying- certs claiming that they were 8th dan tkd and 8th dan hapkido and 8th dan tsd. And in many cases these people neither trained with nor demonstrated in front of the chubby one. Luckily we were able to obtain copies of these bogus certs and present them to these korean orgs so they could see what was happening. And luckily groups like the khf posted online those that did have valid rank in the US. None of those that were sold the bogus certs were listed. Several top ranked folks, like one that you mentioned, also got in touch with the groups in korea passing on details of what was happening. Action was taken... Not everyone saw it, but action was taken. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:11:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KKW certs Centered in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Rick: >Well what about making it THE central organization for TKD - getting TKD >in and keeping it as a Olympic "sport" - can't you think of anything >else? I hope I haven't missed something here, maybe you can bring me up to date, but I have always thought TKD was a Korean MA (I know all about the various influences). So where would you think the most logical central location should be? Florida? Georgia? how about Texas or California? I have a idea lets try Guam. After all we are Americans and we should make sure that only we call the shots. How audacious can those Koreans be any way? The fact that a part of TKD has been developed into an "Olymic Sport" only has as much effect on TKD, as a whole, as the individual instructors allow. Fact is the sport aspect was used as a tool to help spread the introduction of TKD around the world. Maybe you should attend the Hanmadang this year in Muju South Korea. I sure the one thing you will not see there is "Olympic Sparring". Johnnie Rouse --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Condition White/Yellow/Orange/Red/Black Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I recall a different approach to teaching/describing levels of awareness, but can't recall what it was or where it came from. Perhaps it was one of the NRA classes...??? As an NRA Training Counselor I should know, but I think it was only adopted a couple/few years ago or so. Does anyone remember what/where it is? Seems like it was something like AWARE where that acronym described the different levels. ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:07:11 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Taekwondo=92s_Popularity_High?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekwondo's Popularity High Among University Students in Jakarta 18 Aug 2006 JAKARTA, Indonesia --- The popularity of taekwondo is high among Indonesians, especially university students in Jakarta. Reflecting the high popularity, a series of taekwondo-related events took place in the country over the last one month. A three-day Korean Ambassador's Cup Taekwondo Championships opened in Jakarta on Aug. 4, 2006, in cooperation with the Indonesian Taekwondo Association. Timed with the championships, a series of taekwondo demonstrations were held in Jakarta and the provincial city of Surabaya, under the auspices of the World Taekwondo Federation and the sponsorship of Samsung. Besides them, there was a more "meaningful" event involving university students of Korea and Indonesia. Four Korean university students provided free taekwondo training sessions for two weeks from mid-July for a total of 15 students and faculty members of Jakarta Negeri University in Jakarta. The taekwondo training program was part of the Korean students' cultural exchange programs. "We gave a 40-minute taekwondo training to eight students and seven faculty members of the university every day before the start of our regular classes of computer and the Korean language," said Kim Eun-han, a senior student of the Malay-Indonesia Department of the Hankook University of Foreign Studies in Seoul. As members of the Korea Internet Volunteers, Kim and three other university students were dispatched last month to Jakarta Negeri University to teach the school students and faculty members about computer and the Korean language. Under the Korea Internet Volunteers program, which started in 2002 under the auspices of the Ministry of Information and Communication, 75 different groups were chosen this year and dispatched around the world. "Given the high popularity of taekwondo, we decided to offer a taekwondo training session for the students during our stay in Jakarta," Kim said. "We distributed each of the students a copy of the official WTF Taekwondo magazine and the WTF badge, which we received from the Seoul-based WTF." Kim, a first-dan Kukkiwon black-belt holder, said, "All the students were amazed at the taekwondo training program. If we have another chance, then we want to expand the training hours." Ms. Gres Grasia Azmin, a faculty member of the university, said that she, now 24, took up the sport of taekwondo at age 10 and practiced for one year. "I learned taekwondo from my Indonesian teach during the elementary school. Taekwondo was very interesting at that time as it improved a lot my mental and physical health," she said. She hoped more taekwondo-related motion pictures will be produced, which she thought would greatly promote taekwondo. Mr. Boo-chul Park, who headed a WTF-Samsung taekwondo demonstration team, estimates that about 800,000 Indonesians practice taekwondo in Indonesia. "In Surabaya only, about 150,000 are practicing taekwondo and taekwondo is gaining greater popularity in Indonesia after it became an Olympic sport," Park said. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:08:48 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] USAT Feedback Page Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net USAT Feedback Page USA Taekwondo is interested to hear feedback from its members. Let us know what we are doing well. Let us know what we can improve upon. Your input is important to us. Please take a moment to direct your feedback to the appropriate department heads listed below. Thank you! Coaching Feedback & Questions: Scott Novack, USAT Director of High Performance Jason Poos, Coach Director - USAT Board of Directors Athlete Feedback & Questions: Eric Laurin, USOC Athlete Rep. Tim Thackrey, USAT Athlete Rep. Event Feedback & Questions: Monica Paul, USAT Director of National & International Events Mark Kaufmann, USAT Championship Events Manager Meredith Miller, USAT Regional Events Manager Referee Feedback & Questions: Jeanna Mendoza, USAT Senior Manager, Membership & Referee Development John Holloway, Referee Director - USAT Board of Directors Membership Feedback & Questions Jeanna Mendoza, USAT Senior Manager, Membership & Referee Development Grassroots Development Feedback & Questions Ronda Sweet, Grassroots Director - USAT Board of Directors --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Great training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > How he was able to do it is that he did get you training. You'd pay dearly > for it. ($ point 1). .... Just a point here... For those looking for some of the very best training available, and at a very reasonable price, check out the up-coming Hapkido and KMA Fall 2006 seminar, September 8, 9 and 10. Details may be found at http://www.hapkido.com or go directly to http://www.hapkido.com/Seminars/2006_Fall_Seminar.htm Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:44:20 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] KKW certs Centered in Korea To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Johnnie, >From: Johnnie Rouse [mailto:rmetals@cmaaccess.com] >Hey Rick: > >>Well what about making it THE central organization for TKD - getting >>TKD in and keeping it as a Olympic "sport" - can't you think of >>anything else? > I hope I haven't missed something here, maybe you can >bring me up to date, but I have always thought TKD was a >Korean MA (I know all about the various influences). So where >would you think the most logical central location should be? >Florida? Georgia? how about Texas or California? I have a idea >lets try Guam. After all we are Americans and we should make >sure that only we call the shots. How audacious can those >Koreans be any way? Now you are getting a bit sarcastic - Well I might as well jump in with a bit of the same - TKD is Korean art? Well as much as it can be. It was nothing more than Japanese Karate being taught by Koreans with Korean names to give it a Korean flavor and being changed from 1945 to 2006 to make it more Korean. It's a bunch of Korean instructors telling us what we are being taught is some ancient art developed from Tae Kyun that has a history going back to the "Three Kingdom" period with roots in the Hwrang-Do. They changed things around to meet the cultural expectations of a group of people that were so upset at the Japanese occupation and the desire to get rid of anything that had a Japanese influence that they would deny, change, lie, do what ever it took to step away from the real history because it was jut not politically acceptable. The Kodokan is not the central authority in the issuance of certificates that can be used in international competition. Judo is a Japanese art yet they don't have world wide control - why should TKD? Is there any reason why Americans should not run TKD in America? Or the Brits run it in the UK, or the French in France, for that matter why should not every country run TKD in their own country? Does America run all of the basketball and baseball programs in the world? How about England running all of the rugby, football (soccer), cricket? > > The fact that a part of TKD has been developed into an >"Olymic Sport" only has as much effect on TKD, as a whole, as >the individual instructors allow. Not really - rules are set for sparring and the direction for TKD is not set by individual instructors. Forms are not set by the individual instructor. In fact I doubt the old forms such as the Pyung-ahn are "authorized poomsae". >Fact is the sport aspect was >used as a tool to help spread the introduction of TKD around >the world. Maybe you should attend the Hanmadang this year in >Muju South Korea. I sure the one thing you will not see there >is "Olympic Sparring". Sorry no desire to see that event. Rick Clark >Johnnie Rouse --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest