Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:44:19 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #349 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. fight science (Jye nigma) 2. video clips: TKD (Jye nigma) 3. Re: fight science (steven riggs) 4. TSD in Indy (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 5. Re: fight science (Jye nigma) 6. KKW Paper or Sweat (Woodard Brian (ChP/TEF8)) 7. you do have a point (Frank Clay) 8. KKW Certs In America (Johnnie Rouse) 9. Re: fight science (Christian Briggs) 10. Shreveport MMA (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 11. Cond. white/yellow/orange/red/black (Don Ross) 12. RE: KKW Certs In America (Rick Clark) 13. Bingo!! (David Weller) 14. RE: Bingo!! (Rick Clark) 15. forms (Ray) 16. Re: Bingo!! (Steven Berkowitz) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:38:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: MartialArtsTalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] fight science Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Has anyone watched the Fight Science show on National Geographic Channel? If so what did you think about the program. I actually liked it. Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:20:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] video clips: TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://youtube.com/watch?v=LqvXO2L9kPc&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFG8AeiV-7o&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Bh4kvHnt0&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IBKwQybvvc&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpNG-WdiF38&search=kyokushin%20karate%20wtf%20taekwondo%20tae%20kwon%20do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7O8ELJDvU&search=kyokushin%20karate%20wtf%20taekwondo%20tae%20kwon%20do yoosool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAjtZ69e08Q&search=kyokushin%20karate%20wtf%20taekwondo%20tae%20kwon%20do --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:20:53 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] fight science To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I thought it was fantastic. I taped it for my students to watch. I thought it was a shame that they had a Tae Kwon Do guy rather than a Tang Soo Do Black Belt. Steven (don't everyone curse me at once) Jye nigma wrote: Has anyone watched the Fight Science show on National Geographic Channel? If so what did you think about the program. I actually liked it. Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Sensei Steven Riggs Senior Instructor American Defensive Arts stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:58:25 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD in Indy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank Clay wrote: >TSD is not very big in the Carmel area. Sorry Frank, but I'm not very familiar with the Korean styles in Indy. I do teach hapkido, but only to a couple of people and most of them are black belts in other styles. I just do it for my own pleasure and we do it outside on the grass most of the year. My contact info is below. Of the folks who actually do have dojangs in Indy, here's the ones that I recommend: Maunde Muda Main Po - A group of Pentjak-Silat folks in Indy. They are very good, and go to Indonesia to train occasionally. Email me if you would like me to put you in touch with them. Jerry Smith's Kickboxing - Jerry was a full contact fighter in the early 1970s and he runs a fun gym. He is a Kenpo stylist, but there are a variety of styles (kali, hapkido, etc.) taught at his school. Judo -- I forget the guy's name, but there is a long-time judoka who runs a school on the north side (Fishers?). Very traditional judo, and very good people. Again, contact me for more details if you like. Ninjutsu -- There are ninja in the Carmel area -- Bujinkan I believe. I practiced with some of them through Small Circle Jujitsu and I liked their technique, but not their uniforms. :) Oh, and I also teach Hoki-ryu Iaido down in Mooresville. We have an excellent instructor in Japan, and I just found out I earned my 3rd dan the last time we went to train. Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com 317-278-0585 [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 02:48:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] fight science To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net yeah I liked it too. That TKD guy had to go though...lol. He needed to put on a shirt...lol. seriously though, I wish they would have used an ITF guy as well. Jye steven riggs wrote: I thought it was fantastic. I taped it for my students to watch. I thought it was a shame that they had a Tae Kwon Do guy rather than a Tang Soo Do Black Belt. Steven (don't everyone curse me at once) Jye nigma wrote: Has anyone watched the Fight Science show on National Geographic Channel? If so what did you think about the program. I actually liked it. Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Sensei Steven Riggs Senior Instructor American Defensive Arts stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:29:47 -0400 From: "Woodard Brian (ChP/TEF8)" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] KKW Paper or Sweat Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have always been satisfied with rank from my instructor. The organization does not matter to me. The person I have CHOSEN to study from, who I RESPECT is good enough for me. As long as I can tell there are significant improvements in my technique, power, and knowledge of motion; I know I am still on my journey in the MA. Just because my cert doesn't have XYZ on it does not diminish its value to me. Now I have no desire to compete in the Olympics, so KKW rank has no significance to me. Does that make the KKW rank less valuable to the Olympic hopeful? Absolutely not. Here is the crux of this problem. Some MA teachers who want to increase their "market value" see the KKW as a marketing tool, and therefore give it more "value" and are willing to pay a more for it. Why? So THEY can charge more when they teach! Does anyone smell money? Throw all the !@#$ paper away and get out on the mat! Stop wasting time chasing paper (money or certification) spend more of it on the mat. Believe me, if you do that; all anyone has to do is see you and they will see the value in your technique. Best Regards, Brian Woodard --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:43:48 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] you do have a point Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, You do have a point. I don't know who may have mail ordered certs. While I don't have direct knowledge of those kinds of events, I'm sure it occurred just based on what I do know. Since I didn't see it or really hear about it, it would be best if I didn't say anything else on that part of the topic. Incidentally, you know they are back in business? f. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:04:19 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KKW Certs In America Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Rick: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] fight science Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:09:06 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone.  Was this the same show from a couple of years ago from the Discovery channel?  Had a couple of guys from Extreme Martial Arts ( or somthing of that nature ) trying to make a come back on the tournament circuit.  Also used a lot of computer effects to show bones breaking.  It was awesome, and this looked like it would be similiar if not the same show.  If its new, I have got to find it.  By the way I like the Jung Do reference that I see here every now and then. -Chris Briggs -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  Jye nigma Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  Re: [The_Dojang] fight science Date:  Mon, 21 Aug 2006 02:48:43 -0700 (PDT) >yeah I liked it too. That TKD guy had to go though...lol. He needed to put on a shirt...lol. seriously though, I wish they would have used an ITF guy as well. > >   Jye > > >steven riggs wrote: >   I thought it was fantastic. I taped it for my students to watch. I thought it was a shame that they had a Tae Kwon Do guy rather than a Tang Soo Do Black Belt. Steven (don't everyone curse me at once) > >Jye nigma wrote: Has anyone watched the Fight Science show on National Geographic Channel? If so what did you think about the program. I actually liked it. > >Jye > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > >Sensei Steven Riggs >Senior Instructor >American Defensive Arts >stevencriggs@yahoo.com >www.americandefensivearts.org >828-322-6904 > > >--------------------------------- >Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >  Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:29:30 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Shreveport MMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Darkin Thanks for the advice. The small cirlce choke I was using has worked for me many times. I just could not make it work on Rener Gracie. Has we dicussed it he said all chokes are good some just work faster or more effeicently. Compared to the Mata Leo rear naked choke used by the Gracie's the small cirlce choke was not as efficient. As an instructor that has trained more than 20 years in Moo Duk Kwan, and 15 years in Jujitsu I was convinced not by want he said but by his demonstration on the mat. As for the Battle Cage 360 in Shreveport. My fighter lost by armbar in the second round. He has only been training 7 months and showed great heart. The next event is November 11, 2006. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Don Ross" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:44:50 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Cond. white/yellow/orange/red/black Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry, If memory serves, I first read of the color awareness levels in the early '70's - think it was Col. Jeff Cooper or Mr. Liddell of KC? Hope this helps. pil seung, Don Ross I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure. - Clarence Darrow --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:51:21 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] KKW Certs In America To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Johnnie, > Yelp, your right about that. I usually don't do that. Don't think it serves much purpose . . . . > >America? Or the Now here's where you and I may have just struck pay dirt, >some common ground. > I'm really not sure what you mean by "run", but I can very >well see the virtue in having branch offices in areas around >the world. Maybe not every single country, some whoever could >need more than one. I think maybe a great Idea. Run can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. But in broad statement as that I would give it a broad interpretation. My basic philosophy in all thing political is that there should be more local control and less at the national or international level. If we were to use the example of national government the city should control what they can, the county, what can't be done by the city, the state by what the county can't do, and finally the federal government should do only what the state can't do. > "Little of subject" I have people emailing me with request >for information about Pyung-Ahn Hyongs. The request that I >have are from TKD BBs. I have some links and, I still have my >old notes (looks like they're from a koryo dynasty archeology >dig). Maybe you could post some links? There is no way that the Pyung-ahn form are from Koryo! The Pyung-ahn are virtually the same as the Pinan or Heian kata of Japan and Okinawa. Itosu is credited with developing them (he was one of the instructors of Gichin Funakoshi father of Shotokan). Any suggestion that the old kwan forms are from the Three Kingdoms era is just plain wrong, the forms were from Okinawa, the Japanese used them from about 1922 onward in their Karate, and then in 1945 the Koreans used them in Kong Soo Do, Tae Soo Do, TKD, until they changed to "Korean" forms. As to links on the forms - sorry don't have anything on the top of my head. Rick Clark > >Johnnie Rouse >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: David Weller Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:45:58 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bingo!! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is the crux of the biscuit succinctly stated by Mr. Gordon. I can almost assure you that the folks sitting on the "Martial Arts Regulation and Oversight" board will be ego filled "hacks" who have little time for training, but lots of time for emailing, web site development and personal promotion. They will be EXACTLY the ones who advertise in the back of "black belt" magazine and who are only in it to make a buck and make themselves look puffed up and important. Then Mr. Rubenfield and Mr. Clark will have some Americans to be pissed at. Look-it, the guys who would truly make the board a valuable tool have better things to do: Like making their students better martial artists! All this energy wasted so the piece of paper, or the nice belt we wear, is somehow "better" or "more legitimate"?! As I said earlier, I have KKW certification because my teacher supplies it. If I didn't get it for my next promotion it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit. My TEACHER is the one who bestows rank on me, and no one else! I'd rather see more discussions like the one describing the nice application of the C-block in Palgwe Sa-jang. That was both interesting and meaningful. dave weller On Aug 20, 2006, at 9:39 PM, Mr. Gordon wrote: > When professional boards are set up, > who do you think will be sitting on the Florida board but none other > than some Hack? Even if not, I'm not real enthused with the idea of a > room full alpha males (aka the licensing panel) deciding whether or > not > some new guy teaches real martial arts. Consider how hard it is to > get > a doctor out of business. --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:09:06 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Bingo!! To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Dave, >From: David Weller [mailto:dweller@greatbend.com] >Here is the crux of the biscuit succinctly stated by Mr. >Gordon. I can almost assure you that the folks sitting on the >"Martial Arts >Regulation and Oversight" board will be ego filled "hacks" >who have little time for training, but lots of time for emailing, web >site development and personal promotion. They will be EXACTLY >the ones who advertise in the back of "black belt" magazine and who >are only in it to make a buck and make themselves look >puffed up and important. No argument from me on this, >Then Mr. Rubenfield and Mr. Clark will have some Americans to be >pissed at. More than likely you are correct, but at least they will be American and in America and subject to our laws, and if necessary can be taken to court for fraud charges. >Look-it, the guys who would truly make the board a valuable tool have >better things to do: > >Like making their students better martial artists! Agreed but it does not mean that there are not some out there that could not fill administrative roles for a short period of time and then have someone else fill the roles. Not get some political hacks in positions of power who will never give it up and use it for their own political, power, monetary gain. > >All this energy wasted so the piece of paper, or the nice belt we >wear, is somehow "better" or "more legitimate"?! >As I said earlier, I have KKW certification because my teacher >supplies it. If I didn't get it for my next promotion >it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit. My TEACHER is the one who >bestows rank on me, and no one else! This is the way it should be. If your certificate was just from him you would value it as much as if it were from some other organization, which is as it should be. >I'd rather see more discussions like the one describing the nice >application of the C-block in Palgwe Sa-jang. That >was both interesting and meaningful. OK - let's start a thread in that direction. Rick Clark > >dave weller --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "Little of subject" I have people emailing me with request for information > about Pyung-Ahn Hyongs. The request that I have are from TKD BBs. I have some > links and, I still have my old notes (looks like they're from a koryo dynasty > archeology dig). Maybe you could post some links? http://mchenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo/forms/ to see the forms. But they have nothing to do with Koryo. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bingo!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:36:25 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am not a lawyer, and I do not play one on TV. Therefore, what I say should not be considered legal advice, and certainly, all matters considered should be with the advice of a licensed atty. That said, I AM a litigation paralegal, have successfully presented before the bench in vatious places as amicus curae and even made case law as a litigant in civil court, prevailing against judges in state appeals court and in Fed venues, even having one removed from his bench and securing retraction and apology from another gor civil rights violations and violation of Constitutionally-guaranteed and protected rights. That said- there is always Federal Wire and Mail Fraud charges available as remedy when an organization foreign, doing business in the US by mail, phone, email, and through representatives, take money IN the US and fail to deliver. While you might not get your $$ back, you can gain restraining order against the org doing any business in the US in the future, as well as the little articles in the papers nationally. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Clark" To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:09 AM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Bingo!! > Hi Dave, > > >From: David Weller [mailto:dweller@greatbend.com] > > >Here is the crux of the biscuit succinctly stated by Mr. > >Gordon. I can almost assure you that the folks sitting on the > >"Martial Arts > >Regulation and Oversight" board will be ego filled "hacks" > >who have little time for training, but lots of time for emailing, web > >site development and personal promotion. They will be EXACTLY > >the ones who advertise in the back of "black belt" magazine and who > >are only in it to make a buck and make themselves look > >puffed up and important. > > No argument from me on this, > > >Then Mr. Rubenfield and Mr. Clark will have some Americans to be > >pissed at. > > More than likely you are correct, but at least they will be American and > in America and subject to our laws, and if necessary can be taken to > court for fraud charges. > > >Look-it, the guys who would truly make the board a valuable tool have > >better things to do: > > > >Like making their students better martial artists! > > Agreed but it does not mean that there are not some out there that could > not fill administrative roles for a short period of time and then have > someone else fill the roles. Not get some political hacks in positions > of power who will never give it up and use it for their own political, > power, monetary gain. > > > > >All this energy wasted so the piece of paper, or the nice belt we > >wear, is somehow "better" or "more legitimate"?! > >As I said earlier, I have KKW certification because my teacher > >supplies it. If I didn't get it for my next promotion > >it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit. My TEACHER is the one who > >bestows rank on me, and no one else! > > This is the way it should be. If your certificate was just from him you > would value it as much as if it were from some other organization, which > is as it should be. > > >I'd rather see more discussions like the one describing the nice > >application of the C-block in Palgwe Sa-jang. That > >was both interesting and meaningful. > > OK - let's start a thread in that direction. > > Rick Clark > > > > >dave weller > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 8/18/2006 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest