Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:36:33 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #350 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: you do have a point (Ray) 2. needed info appreciated (Steven Berkowitz) 3. Dojang in Nashua NH? (erikbrann@adelphia.net) 4. Re: Martial arts oversight board (sidtkd@aol.com) 5. just a thought (sidtkd@aol.com) 6. governing body and regulation (Thomas Gordon) 7. New Thread (David Weller) 8. advice (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 9. Re: you do have a point (Joseph Cheavens) 10. RE: Root and Center (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 11. (no subject) (ralphs@shentel.net) 12. Re: just a thought (Jay O'Connor) 13. Re: RE: Root and Center (Jay O'Connor) 14. RE: advice (David P. Zapencki) 15. On root (Jay O'Connor) 16. Re: governing body and regulation (Steven Berkowitz) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] you do have a point To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Incidentally, you know they are back in business? Sad. Folks... for specific examples of what happened in the past see: http://jlim.net, then go to Gallery -> Fake Certificates. And thanks to Julian Lim for making these readily available on the net. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:39:19 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] needed info appreciated Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings: I asked, and one sent. And, this is how things SHOULD work. Last week I looked at my calendar to determine what dates I could do some "Continuing Ed" courses on weekends around the US. Of interest was a class on Korean Healing Techniques, similar to Qi Gong, which I already do, but without benefit of certification. The course dates would work, Florida is a place I lived for a total of 20ish years, so I'd visit my daughter down there also, and I could afford the nominal fee. I asked again who the "chubby wannabe" was, and someone answered. Its the same guy offering the course I was about to take! This is how things SHOULD work- assisting each other avoid problems, resolve issues, and working together for the benefit of the arts and the ultimate blessing to the student(s). Good job! And many thanks to the brother that responded. Steven --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 9:42:47 -0700 From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dojang in Nashua NH? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, I'm in the midst of moving from Rockland Maine, and affiliation with the "Korean Schools of Karate", which I am no longer a member of in any way, to Nashua, New Hampshire. I'd like to find a Moo Duk Kwan teacher, so I can build on what I already have, as well as find a Hapkido teacher. Kukki-TKD would be a reasonable alternative. Any thoughts? I work in Burlington, MA so evenings I could attend class there as well. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:44:33 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Martial arts oversight board Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Now it is really getting funny! Some of you already know who is going to sit on a board that does not currently exist! You know that these will be alpha males and their only concern is the paper certificate. No, no, no...once again...no. That is not the purpose. The purpose is regulatory such as to see that masters get finger printed because we don't want felons teaching our kids, the purpose is to see that dojangs meet safety standards, so that we have enough air to breath and that the roof isn't falling. The purpose is to see that when fees are charged, services are delivered. Gee...I wonder if I went to Harvard and told the Dean that my degree isn't important its what I can demonstrate. Here's the deal..everything is important. Your skills, knowing CPR, knowing how to teach, not being a thief or molester...everything means everything. You won't go out of business as regulatory fees make for better services not bankruptcy. Hacks on an oversight board? Any hacks on medical boards , on boards of state education department oversight committees...on college dissertation committees? Not many if at all. Mr. Rubinfeld (that's me) is only pissed at thieves, scoundrels, wannabees, pretenders and those that hurt others and want to be left alone to do it some more. For the overwhelming majority of good and honorable people in the arts...what are you worried about? "Mr." Sid Rubinfeld Unpissed, certified with righteous indignation --__--__-- Message: 5 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:00:16 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] just a thought Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Isn't it funny that when the issue of legitimate dan is brought up, there are usually two predicatble responses. One is, that the person responding feels that he never needed the kukkiwon (that's perfectly fine). Second is, that I should concentrate more on my skills than the shenanigans around me and rank isn't important. Funny though..in both cases these comments come from people that hold 5th dan or higher. Sid Rubinfeld calm as a cucumber --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:09:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] governing body and regulation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What’s the intent of this governing body? To force organizations to stop fraud from people forging their certificates? That’s sounded peculiar as I wrote it out...because it is peculiar to attempt to force a business to stop someone from forging their services. Perhaps a governing body can force organizations to set a certain maximum fee an instructor can charge? Yeah, tell someone they can’t charge $500 for a first dahn KKW and they’ll charge $100 for the certificate and $400 for the test. I know I went to public school but that still comes up to $500. Maybe a governing body can force unscrupulous instructors from claiming they are getting legitimate certificates? I was thinking these unscrupulous people were...you know...unscrupulous. Lock the front door and they’ll ease around to the back. Locks keep honest men honest. Same with laws. I keep seeing "regulate" but what exactly? Anybody ever take a look at the licensing boards? Can’t sue them – at least not the one’s I’ve seen which are above any ramifications much like a judge is. Getting a judge disbarred and/or removed from the bench will take some time and considerable effort. Hope some of these "sold out" martial art instructors come to the aid because the "do it for the art" folks are going to be hard pressed to pay for it out of their martial art funds. Anyone consider the licensing panel and what it’ll cost, how it’ll be paid for, and the qualifications? It’s true many professional licensing panels are made up of volunteers who make their living in the industry. That means professional "sold out" martial artists on the panel. That opens the door wide up for Hacks. How will it paid for? Even if the panel is free, there are expenses with enforcement. Oh yeah, more taxes. I can’t tell you how warm and fuzzy that gets me. What about qualifications? Can you imagine the resume of the "sold out" martial artist that pays to get on the cover of magazines and has their very own book or DVD series? Might even be some Combat guy everyone seems to adore on this list. Obviously, from me, "sold out" is being sarcastic. But for you guys who teach for the love of the art and doing so for free or nearly free, a professional panel and licensing only means they’ll be phased out via politics (from the very people that was indeed to be monitored and now on the board) and/or money restraints. I’ve dealt with licensing boards and politicians. Both reek of good ol boy networking and throwing money at problems. Licensing panels DO help to make professions more exclusive. And that exclusivity and obstacles means the people who do make it WILL charge more to offset their expenses and expertise. If you want to force someone to be legit, set up a website and tell the world. Yeah, you may get sued but there's nothing illegal about telling the truth. Keep the opinions out and post the facts. Most everyone searches the internet before they do anything. If you have any questions, have your lawyer proof read it. Of course lawyers are expensive so I hope your teaching martial arts for a profit. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 7 From: David Weller Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:43:05 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New Thread Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello again Mr. Clark, I'll just make one more point. Having served on some boards of directors for national organizations and some rinky dink local stuff as well, I know full well that the poor schmuck who volunteers first will be on that board until he dies. The only persons who will raise their hands and volunteer their services (in general, okay??) will be those asses we are trying to stay away from and are the intent of the regulation to start with. Then the wolves are guarding the flock, and the descent to hell has begun........ I'm glad we agree that what really matters is what our TEACHERS teach us!! The rest is like that crud you get in the corner of your eye in the morning, it's irritating until you rub it out. But most of all I liked your idea of starting a new thread! How about this: In many forms from many styles I see actions that contain slow, "pressing" movements. For the WTFer's in the house I see this in Taebeck (3rd Dan form) et al, and have seen them in ITF, ATA and Karate styles as well. Besides looking kind of cool, I don't see much point to them. But I really didn't think much of the C Block in Palgwe Sa-jang until just recently!! Thanks !!!!! Anyone care to offer some insight ??? Thanks Dave Weller On Aug 21, 2006, at 9:44 AM, Me & Mr. Clark wrote: > >> Look-it, the guys who would truly make the board a valuable tool have >> better things to do: >> >> Like making their students better martial artists! > > Agreed but it does not mean that there are not some out there that > could > not fill administrative roles for a short period of time and then have > someone else fill the roles. Not get some political hacks in > positions > of power who will never give it up and use it for their own political, > power, monetary gain. --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: [The_Dojang] advice To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:46:51 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Would anyone care to give me some advice on continuing my Tae Kwon Do training with a fractured toe? I cannot sit and wait three more weeks (dr. said four weeks of rest) before returning to training. I don't want to have to start rebuilding my strength, speed and stamina from scratch. I am continuing to work on upper body, but need some way of maintaining/strengthening my lower body, as well. Any advice would be appreciated! --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] you do have a point Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:01:50 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Very interesting site. Thanks for sharing. Couldn't the WTF sue Hackworth or even request that the Fed pursue criminal wire and/or mail fraud charges? Before looking at the fake certificates, I stumbled upon this gem of mis-translation. http://jlim.net/Gallery/MedalAwards/TKD-CDK-AppreciationPlague.jpg I'm not sure what a "plague of appreciation" is, but I'm sure I don't want to catch it. ;-) Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] you do have a point Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:13:44 -0700 (PDT) > Incidentally, you know they are back in business? Sad. Folks... for specific examples of what happened in the past see: http://jlim.net, then go to Gallery -> Fake Certificates. And thanks to Julian Lim for making these readily available on the net. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:24:57 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Root and Center Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye wrote: >I agree with your point it's just my opinion that doing it with a partner first is attempting to run before crawling. What I mean is this. No matter what the art is, you learn the basics first before fighting sparring etc right? My response: I don't agree with that any more. I think that if one has to teach a lot of students, then yes, one needs to have them do "basics" because those lend themselves to mass instruction, both in terms of maximizing "time on task" and in terms of reducing liability. But if one only has a few students, or one, the student can learn MUCH faster by jumping into the deep end. Whether they drown or not depends on the suitability of the instructor and upon their own abilities. The down side to training students this way is that they have a LOT of extra learning if they want to switch back to mass instruction. The other downside of dynamic training from the very beginning of one's career is that it is VERY daunting. If the student is not sure of himself, or if the instructor is not encouraging enough, the student can give it up very easily. Actually, the dynamic instruction I'm talking about sounds kind of like elite military training now that I think of it. Jye wrote: >Ok you're at the gym on the leg press machine, you're pressing 700lbs. You try to stance in a GOOD horse stance, thighs parallel to the ground etc. you only last 30 seconds. Now let's say you train in some form of lower basin exercises, and have worked your way up to 5+mins. Yet at the gym you can't quite press 700lbs on the leg press machine. Now what I was trying to say is you will more likely be in a position where you can use the power developed from horse stance then from the leg press machine, because you're more likely to be in an upright position... STUFF DELETED My response: Is there someone who can reply to this on the basis of Kinesiology? It sounds like Jye is constructing his understanding of strength training based on traditional Chinese methods, but I know that modern strength training is a science all of its own. I seem to recall at least that one can train for endurance or for speed, and not both, because of the two types of muscle tissue that one could train. Jye's horse stance seems to be training for endurance, while WTF TKDers train for explosive power. Which is better in a fight? Anj Sidona wrote: >a stance is a position of alignment. You don't remain in one stance to fight in, the stance is the moment in your motion where a strike connects or a movement completes. If I choose a front fighting stance and remain in it throughout a sparring match, I'm going to get my head ripped off. I want to flow between a front stance, back stance, L stance, rooted stance, cat stance. My response: I agree that stances should be dynamic benchmarks of movement (part of my argument to Jye), but I also understand that you are largely talking about forms work. When you say, "Anything you can do slowly, you can do quickly," I have to disagree. Practicing slowly will often help create more efficient movement, but unless you train hard and fast, you won't be able to perform that way. To train someone to fight, one can either (1) take a few years to teach them the basics, and after they get their black belt and hopefully prove their character, teach them really how to fight or (2) make damn sure of their character and then teach them to fight quickly. And one way is not "better" than another by the way. They are just different. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: ralphs@shentel.net From: ralphs@shentel.net Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:47:58 GMT Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a GUPpee here, but I thought the Fight Science show was nicely done. They built an incredible "dojo/lab" facility, they used some of the same techniques that were shown in the XMA analysis done a few years ago, - using the same special effects to generate the 3-D animated, skinless models - that got the flash and glitter that Hollywood likes, but the measurements from the crash test dummies and sensors were, for me at least, the most interesting aspect. The martial artist were all top of the line masters and very articulate. It was nice to see that they were not into the "my art is better than yours", and obviously were working well with the scientist to "discover" more about their techniques. The first part of the show, who can punch the hardest seemed a little senseless. Guess what ? The biggest guy threw the hardest punch (he happened to be a boxer) while the 140Lb Kung-Fu guy threw the least powerful punch. Not sure what that proved, maybe I missed something. The muay Thai knee to the chest and the Ninja speed punch to the chest showed just how destructive that can be (how did the boxer do in that? did the boxing gloves dispel the impact? Hmmmm...Doesn't TKD have speed punches too?) The analysis of the Jui-Jitsu was nicely done, and quantitatively measured some of the forces that can be exerted on the "victim". It would be interesting to see how much force the Jui-Jitsu guys can take - can they "strenthen" their joints more to handle these forces? Have they extended their range of motion? Measurements on the breaking were incredible and blew away the notion that the boards "break themselves" after you break the first couple of boards. The head break was painful to watch... Watching the TKD guy doing the reaction speed punching was great, but we didn't get to see the others do their speed testing (how much difference was there in that?) As in baseball, those with the "fastest eye" have an easier time hitting the ball, the artist with the "fastest eye" has an advantage over other fighters. Unfortunately, they correlated their results with each martial art instead of the individual - "Tae Kwon Do fighters react in only 0.18 seconds" - well, ok, maybe that guy did and he happened to be practing TKD... Also, they went over the pros and cons of several weapons, some sort of competition between weapons trying to find which one is the best. I think this was more for "show" or they just missed the point that there is no "best overall" weapon, each is suited for a specific purpose. (BTW, Did the Japanese really test their swords and their swordmanship on their criminals? hmmm) Anyhow, it was nice to see that science can verify some of the stuff you've heard the ancient masters saying (and disprove some of the other trash we've always heard). The Masters of course had no way to verify some of their claims, but through years of trial and error were able to filter out what worked. Of course, it is not normally part of the "eastern culture" to question anything the master says anyhow... And, as nicely summed up at the end of the show, the timing, agility and other "unmeasurables" make the best practitioner, not necessarily someone with any one super technique or a superior "Martial Art". Lets hope they continue to do more of these! --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Shentel WebMail. http://WebMail.Shentel.Net --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:50:48 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] just a thought Cc: sidtkd@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Isn't it funny that when the issue of legitimate dan is brought up, there > are usually two predicatble responses. One is, that the person responding feels > that he never needed the kukkiwon (that's perfectly fine). Second is, that I > should concentrate more on my skills than the shenanigans around me and rank > isn't important. Funny though..in both cases these comments come from > people that hold 5th dan or higher. > I was 1st Gup in one (TKD) school before moving and ended up back at 3rd Gup. Now Im back at white belt in Hapkido.. My own opinion is that nobody outside of my school cares what my belt is (especially if I should ever really need to use any techniques) and in my school all we use belts for is to remember what techniques we're working on currently (we don't wear belts in class). As long as my instructor keeps challenging me with stuff that will be useful, I'm happy. Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:56:58 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Root and Center Cc: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Jye's horse stance seems to be training for endurance, while WTF > TKDers train for explosive power. Which is better in a fight? Suppose it depends on whether you want the fight over decisively and quickly or whether you want to stretch it out and wear the other guy down? Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] advice Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:01:54 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What I always do when I fracture toes sparring (I have two broken right now) is put some tape around them, and show up at the dojang and train as usual... Dave -----Original Message----- From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com [mailto:Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:47 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] advice Would anyone care to give me some advice on continuing my Tae Kwon Do training with a fractured toe? I cannot sit and wait three more weeks (dr. said four weeks of rest) before returning to training. I don't want to have to start rebuilding my strength, speed and stamina from scratch. I am continuing to work on upper body, but need some way of maintaining/strengthening my lower body, as well. Any advice would be appreciated! _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:02:51 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] On root Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One thing that came tom my mind the other day thinking about the discussion of "root" in relationship to power is simply that in Taekwondo, for example, that root is not where powere is generated. Consider a flying sidekick. The power comes from the moving mass striking into the target, and it's very powerful. Probably moreso than you could do standing, no matter how rooted you are. Even a lot of non-flying kicks are the same way, it's the speed of the hip twist, etc..that generate power. Yeah, in punching you want to be rooted for stability to gain power, but in kicking you're generatingpoer differently, not by how rooted you are on the ground but by how fast and powerfully you can get off the ground., so to speak. So it seems to me that maybe Taekwondo for the most part doesn't work on stablizing from the ground simply because that's not the mechanism by which kicking power is generated. Or did I totally miss something? Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] governing body and regulation Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:24:51 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Regulatory boards are NOT free from penalty assessment or even disbanding. If they fail to serve the purpose, they get disbanded. And, oddly, I lock my home's doors at night, when all the honest people in my neighborhood are also asleep. Its the crooks my locks keep out.(and the purpose for that K9 garbage recycler layin;' over there, and the Glock, and, and..... A regulatory board would be able to publish legal actiuons against the offenders, would even be able to file class actions against wholesale fraud and thievery, point interested parties towards a list of schools that abide by certain business management methods and class structure guidelines., give info on how long the school has been in town, whether any complaints have been substantiated, etc(like the BBB and CofC is SUPPOSED to do. No, one of the things you DON'T want to do is regulate what a business can charge, whether for classes or testing. The marketplace does that. BTW- I HAVE had judges removed from bench. Time? Yes. Effort? Lots. But, what's the alternative. Shut mouth and let others get raped because I'm too lazy? Not the way I'm wired, and NOT at all the type of ethics I want to think my instructor has, or that I should learn, allowing others to be victimized. Someone, somewhere, sometime, has to kick the crap out of the bad guys.......the ONLY reason thieves are thieves is because they think they can get away with it. Shoot a couple of bank robbers, square in the face, and the incidence of bank robberies in your town will plummet 80-100% in days. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] governing body and regulation > What's the intent of this governing body? To force organizations to stop > fraud from people forging their certificates? That's sounded peculiar as > I wrote it out...because it is peculiar to attempt to force a business to > stop someone from forging their services. > > Perhaps a governing body can force organizations to set a certain maximum > fee an instructor can charge? Yeah, tell someone they can't charge $500 > for a first dahn KKW and they'll charge $100 for the certificate and $400 > for the test. I know I went to public school but that still comes up to > $500. > > Maybe a governing body can force unscrupulous instructors from claiming > they are getting legitimate certificates? I was thinking these > unscrupulous people were...you know...unscrupulous. Lock the front door > and they'll ease around to the back. Locks keep honest men honest. Same > with laws. > > I keep seeing "regulate" but what exactly? Anybody ever take a look at > the licensing boards? Can't sue them - at least not the one's I've seen > which are above any ramifications much like a judge is. Getting a judge > disbarred and/or removed from the bench will take some time and > considerable effort. Hope some of these "sold out" martial art > instructors come to the aid because the "do it for the art" folks are > going to be hard pressed to pay for it out of their martial art funds. > > Anyone consider the licensing panel and what it'll cost, how it'll be paid > for, and the qualifications? It's true many professional licensing panels > are made up of volunteers who make their living in the industry. That > means professional "sold out" martial artists on the panel. That opens > the door wide up for Hacks. > > How will it paid for? Even if the panel is free, there are expenses with > enforcement. Oh yeah, more taxes. I can't tell you how warm and fuzzy > that gets me. > > What about qualifications? Can you imagine the resume of the "sold out" > martial artist that pays to get on the cover of magazines and has their > very own book or DVD series? Might even be some Combat guy everyone seems > to adore on this list. > > Obviously, from me, "sold out" is being sarcastic. But for you guys who > teach for the love of the art and doing so for free or nearly free, a > professional panel and licensing only means they'll be phased out via > politics (from the very people that was indeed to be monitored and now on > the board) and/or money restraints. > > I've dealt with licensing boards and politicians. Both reek of good ol > boy networking and throwing money at problems. Licensing panels DO help > to make professions more exclusive. And that exclusivity and obstacles > means the people who do make it WILL charge more to offset their expenses > and expertise. > > If you want to force someone to be legit, set up a website and tell the > world. Yeah, you may get sued but there's nothing illegal about telling > the truth. Keep the opinions out and post the facts. Most everyone > searches the internet before they do anything. If you have any questions, > have your lawyer proof read it. Of course lawyers are expensive so I hope > your teaching martial arts for a profit. > > Thomas Gordon > Florida > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.4/424 - Release Date: 8/21/2006 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest