Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:56:18 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #354 - 20 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Re: RE: Root and Center (Jye nigma) 2. from another group: kicking or punching (Jye nigma) 3. BJJ (Stovall, Craig) 4. paper trail (Gordon) 5. kicking (Gordon) 6. Youth Protection Programs (Gordon) 7. Chamber position of your hands during Poomse - really a self defense question (Tom) 8. Broken toes (Curt McCauley) 9. Pyong Ahn Side note (Curt McCauley) 10. Re: It won't work (sidtkd@aol.com) 11. Re: advice (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 12. bjj class (Mike Donahoo) 13. Re: bjj class (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 14. Re: Chamber position of your hands during Poomse - really a self defense question (Steven Berkowitz) 15. Re: Re: It won't work (Steven Berkowitz) 16. Re: advice (Steven Berkowitz) 17. Re: advice (Steven Berkowitz) 18. Re: Youth Protection Programs (WTSDA Bruce) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:34:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Root and Center To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net my replies below: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" wrote: >I meant that the dynamic and one-on-one nature of training seemed similar to elite military training in unarmed combat. Of course, I wasn't in the military so I may be wrong. If you believe that military personnel learn the basics in basic training, then I do think you are mistaken. Most of the people I have met who train at a high level in the military had martial arts experience going in, and those that didn't acquired it through their own interest, not through their official training (and often in direct conflict with their official duties -- it is my understanding that the military doesn't like it when you get hurt doing martial arts and can't do your job). What I meant was no matter what the job, one should always no the basics to be proficient at whatever they are doing. Now we've seen in the UFC and toughman competitions that street brawlers were able to win in those competitions, however, when put against a skilled opponent who has extra 'tools' = basics, they lost. See you can take a guy who has never fought before, piss him off and he will fight- wildly, totally emotionally driven, etc. now teach him the fundamentals of fighting and see what happens, there will be a change in some things he does. Speaking from experience, I had been in fights since a was little. I was fighting before my formal intro into martial arts. So when I started my formal training, and was allowed to spar, I was kicking ass from white belt up to black belt. Why? because I had fighting experience. Now what the martial arts training in basics did for me is 1) conditioned the parts of my body so I could strike without damage to myself, 2)gave me knowledge of anatomically weak structures, meridians, cavities, etc so now when I fight I have more 'tools' 3) taught me about stances, were I can acknowledge and exploit someone who is off balance, etc. These things alone don't make you win a fight, but sure make fighting easier...lol. seriously though they are important tools to have. delete the basics, and you might as well just fight and if you win you win and if you lose, you might not live. >I think I mentioned that most of my students are already black belts in other arts, right? But I have trained people from the beginning and how I do it now is very different from how I trained them in the TKD and HKD clubs. A critical mind, the willingness to learn, and the drive to train is all that is necessary. I've trained a few people in simply basic principles of fighting and some basic techniques and watched them effectively defend themselves. >I haven't seen a study yet on which muscle fiber types are trained by stance work. You may never see one unless a scientist hears about it and wants to test it out. All I will say is, reading is one thing, but experiencing something is another. >So you agree with me about the fighting part. I agree that slow training and concentrating on relaxation helps improve technique at faster speeds, but disagree that it improves it best.I don't think anyone needs a black belt. Why do you think they need lower basin training? For me, I practice having control; as much control as humanly possible over my body. So I will practicing kicking sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowly. I focus on balance, breathing, determination, strength, etc when I do my stuff really slow. But when I want to to work on speed, I do those things I want to do quickly. As far as myself, lower basin work is necessary for a strong foundation. I can't tell you the number of times I've blocked kicks with my shin, or just bumped shins and people have had to stop because of that...some of which even had on shin protectors. Or how many times someone has tried to sweep me and almost broken their leg. I attribute that to lower basin/"bone" work. So what may be for me may not be for others. Me personally, I believe in training as much as my whole body as possible. That means literally from head to toe I train. Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:37:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] from another group: kicking or punching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fundamentally, power = acceleration (mass moving) + alignment + grounding. The same physics applies whether you are punching or kicking. Ken --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:07:48 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] BJJ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Yep, sounds like your average BJJ class. VEEEERRRRYYYY laid back...which is fine with me, but others hate it. So, what did you think? Are you going to stick with it? --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:27:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] paper trail Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey! Did you guys intentionally use the word "hack" or was it a derivative of Hackworth? A taxi driver is also called a "hack". The parallels are cracking me up! "Taking you for a ride." "Taking you the wrong way to get more money." Anyway, my question: what does your acronym "STORM" in "Storm Team" stand for? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:34:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] kicking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just had a discussion with another instructor where he told me that he teaches jump spin heel at green belt. This seems too high a technique for a green belt to me. They are just getting their feet under them. I don't think they have the aerial balance and landing nuances to accomplish it safely. When do you teach jump spin heel? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:40:17 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Youth Protection Programs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM Timmerman said: "We just have to recognize that nothing is foolproof, and we Instructors have to educate to our best ability the kids people entrust to us. To this end, I would much rather see this thread talk about programs such as the ones you mention. If we collectively share good programs between school owners and parents, it will make everyone's job easier and our kids and their parents will be better off." I know about the BSA Youth Protection Program. What do you use in this place at your school? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:04:51 -0400 From: Tom To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: [The_Dojang] Chamber position of your hands during Poomse - really a self defense question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Before each Hapkido class I do my old TKD Taeguek poomse as a warm up. I am beginning to question whether this poomse practice is helping or hindering my progress in Hapkido. In Hapkido we are taught to have our hands up and available in those situations were caution is warranted (i.e., was it orange and black?) During the poomse practice I realized that the chamber position for the hand is at the waist (i.e., elbow striking an opponent behind you). Of course this would be a lousy position to have your hand when you really need it for self defense. Also, while looking at a Master McHenry's poomse video, I noticed that he chambered his hand much higher, like that I have seen Karate people do. So, why do poomse and kata teach this chambering position when in fact your hands should be out in front of you where you can use them more quickly. Tom Kennelly --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:54:11 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Broken toes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Use adhesive tape to "trap" the broken toe to the toes that are on either side of it to create a "splint". Then train tenderly. I think I have more toes that have been broken than not. I stopped going to the meds for stuff like this because they always tend to say, " Oh you can't train like this" or "you should stop training in the Martial arts". Over the years I have had students who have broken legs, had knee surgery etc etc. When they say they have to stop, I put them in a wheel chair (used to be a secretary's chair) and they learn the art and what they can do sitting down. I have had several people do gup testing completely from a chair, including Hyung and Sparring. Curt McCauley Chief Instructor Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:03:27 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pyong Ahn Side note Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In Regard to the origins of Pyon Ahn Hyungs, according to Mark Bishop, author of "Okinawan Karate" Pyong Ahn hyungs were Modified by Itosu Anko, from a Chinese form called Chiang Nam or Jai Nam. It originally was one form, not five, and Itosu learned it from a Chinese who lived in Okinawa. Curt McCauley Chief Instructor Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- Message: 10 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:38:00 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: It won't work Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The fear is npt that a Board won't work...the fear is that it WILL work and be bad for business! Name one Board that fails its mission? Sid --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] advice To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Metzner, DMKC, Mr. Berkowitz, Mr. Gordon, Mr. OConner, Mr. McCauley, Thank you all for the advice. I appreciate it. The pool idea is great. I wish I had one. Looks like I'll be taking the kids to the local pool! I'm sure they thank you, as well!!! The broken toe is next to the big toe on my left foot. I broke it right at the base knuckle (I don't know the medical terminology for that). Doc said it was most likely caused by direct blow to the end of the toe. I tape it to the small toe next to it, but not the big toe, as it moves more independently. It isn't painful, unless I try to pivot on the ball of my foot, but the swelling is more bothersome. After sitting in a chair for an extended amount of time, my leg will swell from the knee to the toe. Elevation and walking every half hour seems to work the best. Victor --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:18:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] bjj class Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Gordon, i also recently started judo after 12 years of taekwondo. you are 100% right, it does feel good to be a white belt again! it gave me a new perspective and a new energy teaching my intro class of white and yellow belts in tkd. i sympathize with the long drive part - i have to travel a little over an hour each way for a two and a half hour class after my regular day is over. nothing helps me sleep like pure exhaustion...break falls, ground work, and being dropped on my head/back/side for a couple hours doesn't hurt either :) In devotion to the Art, Mike Donahoo --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. --__--__-- Message: 13 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] bjj class To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:35:23 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If it doesn't hurt,... they must not be doing it right! c(-: md_tkd1@yahoo.com 08/22/2006 03:18 To PM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net cc Please respond to Subject the_dojang@martia [The_Dojang] bjj class lartsresource.net Mr. Gordon, i also recently started judo after 12 years of taekwondo. you are 100% right, it does feel good to be a white belt again! it gave me a new perspective and a new energy teaching my intro class of white and yellow belts in tkd. i sympathize with the long drive part - i have to travel a little over an hour each way for a two and a half hour class after my regular day is over. nothing helps me sleep like pure exhaustion...break falls, ground work, and being dropped on my head/back/side for a couple hours doesn't hurt either :) In devotion to the Art, Mike Donahoo --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Chamber position of your hands during Poomse - really a self defense question Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net many Okin styles teach the higher chamber, directly under the armpit, as a prep position. To my knowledge, the main J style chambering at hip is Shotokan, predecessor to TKD. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:04 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Chamber position of your hands during Poomse - really a self defense question > Before each Hapkido class I do my old TKD Taeguek poomse as a warm up. > I am beginning to question whether this poomse practice is helping or > hindering my progress in Hapkido. In Hapkido we are taught to have our > hands up and available in those situations were caution is warranted > (i.e., was it orange and black?) > > During the poomse practice I realized that the chamber position for the > hand is at the waist (i.e., elbow striking an opponent behind you). Of > course this would be a lousy position to have your hand when you really > need it for self defense. Also, while looking at a Master McHenry's > poomse video, I noticed that he chambered his hand much higher, like > that I have seen Karate people do. > > So, why do poomse and kata teach this chambering position when in fact > your hands should be out in front of you where you can use them more > quickly. > > Tom Kennelly > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.4/424 - Release Date: 8/21/2006 --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: It won't work Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:59:40 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FEMA? IRS? Social Security? FCC? FHA? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:38 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: It won't work > The fear is npt that a Board won't work...the fear is that it WILL work and > be bad for business! Name one Board that fails its mission? > > > Sid > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.4/424 - Release Date: 8/21/2006 --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] advice Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:01:04 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The medical terminology, told to me by a GP MD, is "oh sh_t! that hurts!" when he broke his..... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] advice > Mr. Metzner, DMKC, Mr. Berkowitz, Mr. Gordon, Mr. OConner, Mr. McCauley, > > Thank you all for the advice. I appreciate it. > The pool idea is great. I wish I had one. > Looks like I'll be taking the kids to the local pool! I'm sure they thank > you, as well!!! > > The broken toe is next to the big toe on my left foot. I broke it right at > the base knuckle (I don't know the medical terminology for that). > Doc said it was most likely caused by direct blow to the end of the toe. > I tape it to the small toe next to it, but not the big toe, as it moves > more independently. > It isn't painful, unless I try to pivot on the ball of my foot, but the > swelling is more bothersome. > After sitting in a chair for an extended amount of time, my leg will swell > from the knee to the toe. > Elevation and walking every half hour seems to work the best. > > Victor > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.4/424 - Release Date: 8/21/2006 --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] advice Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:01:57 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net sounds like you are getting way too much fluid in it. are you a diabetic, b'chance????? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] advice > Mr. Metzner, DMKC, Mr. Berkowitz, Mr. Gordon, Mr. OConner, Mr. McCauley, > > Thank you all for the advice. I appreciate it. > The pool idea is great. I wish I had one. > Looks like I'll be taking the kids to the local pool! I'm sure they thank > you, as well!!! > > The broken toe is next to the big toe on my left foot. I broke it right at > the base knuckle (I don't know the medical terminology for that). > Doc said it was most likely caused by direct blow to the end of the toe. > I tape it to the small toe next to it, but not the big toe, as it moves > more independently. > It isn't painful, unless I try to pivot on the ball of my foot, but the > swelling is more bothersome. > After sitting in a chair for an extended amount of time, my leg will swell > from the knee to the toe. > Elevation and walking every half hour seems to work the best. > > Victor > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.4/424 - Release Date: 8/21/2006 --__--__-- Message: 18 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Youth Protection Programs Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:46:12 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Most if not all states have sex offender registry laws. If you move into an area, and are a convicted offender, you must register. Most states also have an internet site you can go to to check your area. There are also some pay sites, that list this public information material, they can be found in google. Here is one that appears to be free. As stated below, there is nothing that is full proof. You need to educate yourself and your students to know the signs. http://www.familywatchdog.us/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Youth Protection Programs > GM Timmerman said: "We just have to recognize that nothing is foolproof, > and > we Instructors have to educate to our best ability the kids people entrust > to us. To this end, I would much rather see this thread talk about > programs > such as the ones you mention. If we collectively share good programs > between school owners and parents, it will make everyone's job easier and > our kids and their parents will be better off." > > I know about the BSA Youth Protection Program. What do you use in this > place at your school? > > Gordon Okerstrom > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest