Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:39:18 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #359 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. Re: temporary black belt (Jye nigma) 2. Spiritual Growth (was Youth Protection) (Lasich, Mark D.) 3. bOARDS (SAMMYSADAN@aol.com) 4. Temporary BB (Johnnie Rouse) 5. RE: fight science (David P. Zapencki) 6. naive politics (William.Baldwin@ureach.com) 7. RE: Chamber position of your hands during Poomse (Lasich, Mark D.) 8. [RE][The_Dojang] fight science (A) 9. Re: temporary black belt (michael tomlinson) 10. Re: bOARDS (Thomas Gordon) 11. RE: monk taking punches (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 12. RE: RE: monk taking punches (Joseph Cheavens) 13. Re: bOARDS (michael tomlinson) 14. Re: bOARDS (Thomas Gordon) 15. RE: Chamber position of your hands during Poomse (Rick Clark) 16. 2nd International Martial Arts Games Open (Robert Martin) 17. Temporary Black Belt (vincenttkd@sbcglobal.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] temporary black belt To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hey if you get a temporart black belt, give them a temporary payment for the temp blackbelt...lol Jye John Chambers wrote: NO! John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] temporary black belt > Could someone explain the purpose of "temporary" black belt? > Why not just another gup (color belt) instead? > I am studying Chang Moo Kwan Tae Kwon Do and once I test for and pass the > black belt testing, I would be awarded a temporary (plain) black belt. > I have to retest to get permanent 1st dan. > Is this typical? > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:10:18 -0400 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang \(Dojang\)" Subject: [The_Dojang] Spiritual Growth (was Youth Protection) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Anderson wrote: >Mark, >Does spiritual = religious growth, or are you separating the two? [snip] >> So, in that light, a new question: What, if any, activities do folks do >> to help their students promote growth in ALL three areas? I am sure we >> all know the physical, emotional could be tied to the "tenants" of the >> various styles, Spiritual????? Curious. First of all, I misquoted my memory! The three areas should be physical, mental (not emotional) and spiritual - but most probably already caught that. (Pardon the spelling, but if I remember in TSD it was shim-gume, wey-gume and ney-gume). For me, spiritual growth does NOT have to imply religious growth, but I believe the two can be very closely related. Perhaps one can think of growth of character. I think spiritual growth shows up in the type of person you are. Sure physical activity can be demonstrated, mental abilities to recall names, dates, terminology, etc. Maybe spiritual is the wrapper that is put around all this: humility, respect, courtesy, loyalty, etc. In my life I have run across just a few people that in their presence I was just astounded how well they made me feel just by being with them. Didn't have anything with whether or not they could kick, or how much knowledge they had. It's just that the essence of their being was so strong, yet so gentle that I could not help but find a level of comfort just being with that person. Now that I've put my thoughts into words, it is hard for me now to see how one could directly promote spiritual growth. It may be more of a result of physical training, balanced with the right mental training. Hope that didn't muddy the waters further - I appreciate the question, and look forward to some more thoughts..... In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 3 From: SAMMYSADAN@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:43:08 EDT To: THE_DOJANG@MARTIALARTSRESOURCE.NET Subject: [The_Dojang] bOARDS Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was at first skeptical, but I've thought it over and that guy Sid has a wonderful idea. This would be great for martial arts as more people would take it seriously. I know it would work, because it would have the weight of the law. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:13:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Temporary BB Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Could someone explain the purpose of "temporary" black belt? >Why not just another gup (color belt) instead? >I am studying Chang Moo Kwan Tae Kwon Do and once I test for and pass >the >black belt testing, I would be awarded a temporary (plain) black belt. >I have to retest to get permanent 1st dan. >Is this typical? In the good old days back in Korea they had (1) national BB testing per year. Lets say November for example. As students advanced and became ready for BB testing( say in March or April) their instructor would promote them to "Ready BB" or as you said "Temporary BB". In General this was an indication to others that one was to be treated as a BB until formally tested at the national promotion. It really depends on how someone conducts their BB testing as to weather this system has any application in today's world.i.e. waiting for more students to test in more formal setting for example. Johnnie Rouse --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] fight science Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:19:57 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It will be replayed on MONDAY SEPTEMBER 4 9P et/pt, you could record it then... Dave -----Original Message----- From: Rob Damour [mailto:skorpiocnt@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:55 PM To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] fight science i was wondering if anyone could possibly send me a copy of the fight science show that was on national geographic channel,i would gladly pay for shipping and dvd's .Please. thanx Rob _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:41:08 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: William.Baldwin@ureach.com, MD-S Subject: [The_Dojang] naive politics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net RE: >From: sidtkd@aol.com >Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 07:24:26 EDT >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Martial arts board Governor selected >Consider this: professional boards are not elected. That would >require fund >raising and REAL politization. They are selected by the >Governor. To say they >are corrupt is at best naive You believe the mere fact that a board is appointed instead of elected insures a corruption proof authority? Whose the one being naive? You have good arguments for your authority proposal, others have good considerations against. But thinking an appointed official *cannot* be corrupt is even worse than being naive, so naive, i just can't find the word... --- "C'est Levee" WILLIAM BALDWIN,BS,MD-S MBA HCM program Ground below Zero New Orleans, La (central time zone) www.coastguardauxiliaryfc61.org --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Chamber position of your hands during Poomse Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:45:25 -0400 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang \(Dojang\)" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick - thank you for your insightful reply: From: "Rick Clark" >>Also, I don't think doing this naturally predisposes people to >>do it always. >It's an axiom in psychology that people revert to previously learned >behavior in moments of stress. I am a firm believer that as you train >you will react. I believe this is the reason we train with the various uses of the 'off-hand'. In forms, I'll rechamber, sparring or board breaks, I will not....I wonder which one I will revert back to, if any? I myself am not under stress when doing form work. I like to think that's the "art" coming out of the martial art. When sparring, self defense, board breaking - yup, definitely more stress. So, I would counter that if I revert to something, it may be something that I've learned at a time of stress, and not at a time of, so to speak, relaxation. I seem to recall the Pyong Ahn forms translated to just that "peaceful and relaxation". This thought also comes to mind: before I could run, I had to learn to walk, before then: crawl. I rarely run for any purpose (though the mirror tells me I should). However, I would hope if my life depended on it, I would run like the wind, and not revert to walking or skipping ;-) Thanks for the good discussion. In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "A" Organization: Lycos. Inc. To: Subject: [RE][The_Dojang] fight science Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Rob, This might be an easier way to get it. eBay. There were a couple of listings but I only glanced and didn't get to any other searches or websites. Here are a couple that pulled up, I'd read the descriptions carefully no matter what site I went to. http://cgi.ebay.com/FIGHT-SCIENCE-2006-Promo-DVD-National-Geographic_W0QQitemZ180020513446QQihZ008QQcategoryZ617QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/National-Geographic-FIGHT-SCIENCE-kit-DVD-T-shirt_W0QQitemZ250018014488QQihZ015QQcategoryZ18838QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Luck, Anj ---------[ Received Mail Content ]---------- Subject : [The_Dojang] fight science Date : Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:55:11 -0600 From : "Rob Damour" To : i was wondering if anyone could possibly send me a copy of the fight science show that was on national geographic channel,i would gladly pay for shipping and dvd's .Please. thanx Rob _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] temporary black belt Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:34:06 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net exactly...I've seen this done in the past...some people do the "deputy" black belt etc...to each his own and no disrespect but it seems to me to be another way to make some more money off someone....when did you ever hear of something like this in the old days??? I never heard or saw this until the mid to late 80's... Michael Tomlinson >From: Jye nigma >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] temporary black belt >Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:13:59 -0700 (PDT) > >hey if you get a temporart black belt, give them a temporary payment for >the temp blackbelt...lol > > Jye > > >John Chambers wrote: > NO! > >John Chambers >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 4:02 PM >Subject: [The_Dojang] temporary black belt > > > > Could someone explain the purpose of "temporary" black belt? > > Why not just another gup (color belt) instead? > > I am studying Chang Moo Kwan Tae Kwon Do and once I test for and pass >the > > black belt testing, I would be awarded a temporary (plain) black belt. > > I have to retest to get permanent 1st dan. > > Is this typical? > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:16:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] bOARDS From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I know it would work, because it would have the weight of the law." LOL! Well then, if they're educated, professionally licensed, AND against the law....there's NO way anything bad could happen... http://snipurl.com/vef5 That's 13.2 MILLION hits btw of an educated and regulated professional breaking the law...with children that will never be the same. People we trust in the care of our children. At first, this was about getting ripped off with certificates. Then, when it started to sound like someone got suckered, it was suddenly all about the children not getting clean air, secure roofs, and no felons. Recently it went back to the certs. Apparently the children were thrown in there for emotional value - typical of a politician doing what it takes to push their agenda through. Hummm....did I ever tell what I think of politicians.... Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:22:26 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: monk taking punches Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net RE: http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3406304&fSectionId=&fSetI d=381 Last time I heard, Communism did not approve of Buddhism. The Shaolin monastery was recreated as a tourist attraction, not as a functioning monastery. "Monks" who trained in martial arts for visitors in the daytime were often seen selling snacks at a vending booth outside the monastery in the evening to make ends meet. Sounds like they are doing better if Yongxin Shi was able to swing a 4x4 (even if it is VW). As Shi said, "I will try my best to promote martial arts to the world in an attempt to boost local tourism. I dream of getting a bigger prize next year." Good luck with that Shi -- we wish you well! Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: monk taking punches Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:44:35 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin: Who, besides the CCP leadership, ever said the Chinese were Communists? ;-) Any thoughts on this? http://eng.templestay.com/temple/vie...ent_code=C1C12 I did a temple stay at Koyasan in Japan and enjoyed it, even if it was a bit touristy. Oh, and on the subject of Buddhist monks/priests and Capitalism, I have a somewhat sad and amusing tale. A friend of mine in Shingu had an uncle who was a Buddhist priest and had a gambling/pachinko habit. As you know, in Buddhism there are all sorts of significant anniversaries for a loved one's death - some more significant than others. Whenever this priest would get down on his luck and be low on funds, he'd look through his parishioner's records and say masses for any and all of their dead relatives that had any anniversary of any significance, then hit the family up for a "donation." Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: monk taking punches Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:22:26 -0400 RE: http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3406304&fSectionId=&fSetI d=381 Last time I heard, Communism did not approve of Buddhism. The Shaolin monastery was recreated as a tourist attraction, not as a functioning monastery. "Monks" who trained in martial arts for visitors in the daytime were often seen selling snacks at a vending booth outside the monastery in the evening to make ends meet. Sounds like they are doing better if Yongxin Shi was able to swing a 4x4 (even if it is VW). As Shi said, "I will try my best to promote martial arts to the world in an attempt to boost local tourism. I dream of getting a bigger prize next year." Good luck with that Shi -- we wish you well! Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] bOARDS Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:58:24 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas writes:: Hummm....did I ever tell what I think of politicians.... Thomas Gordon Florida "used car salesman with 5000 dollars suits"....am I close??? Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:17:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] bOARDS From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "used car salesman with 5000 dollars suits"....am I close??? LOL! Yeah, pretty close. "The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'." - Hardiman, Larry No offense to any politicians on the list as I have met a few honest ones. But to issue a sterotype, most are deal makers and they want their deal to go through so many end up trading votes. I'm pretty sure that's illegal but I was at the table when it was being discussed. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:56:46 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Chamber position of your hands during Poomse To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Mark, >From: Lasich, Mark D. [mailto:Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com] >I believe this is the reason we train with the various uses of >the 'off-hand'. In forms, I'll rechamber, sparring or board >breaks, I will not....I wonder which one I will revert back to, if any? I wonder if the entirety of your training were integrated if that might make a difference? >I myself am not under stress when doing form work. I like to >think that's the "art" coming out of the martial art. Perhaps this is were we differ? I don't think that I perform forms under stress, but in my younger days we would do forms - over and over and over - to the point of exhaustion and still be expected to have precise movements. That being said I did not have an appreciation of forms and the movements as I do today. When I do a form now I don't rush through the form, I take my time. I may not kick as high as I used to do. BUT the big difference for me now is I have techniques in mind and visualize what I am doing with each movement. I can do things in forms practice, at a speed and follow-through that I can not do with a person. I want my self defense techniques to be the same as those I practice in forms. To be honest I am not into the sport aspect of the martial arts like I was when I was younger. >When sparring, self defense, board breaking - yup, definitely >more stress. So, I would counter that if I revert to >something, it may be something that I've learned at a time of >stress, and not at a time of, so to speak, relaxation. Doing forms can be as stressful as those you mention. About the only time I fell like a form "might" be a form of relaxation is Tai Chi, that is till I start doing the form. Then I find my body as stressed as if I were doing a TKD form, I'll sweat and be fatigued esp if I am doing the form several times in a row. >I seem to recall the Pyong Ahn forms translated to just that >"peaceful and relaxation". Perhaps that's what you feel when you practice the Pyung-ahn forms and understand the self defense applications - you feel peaceful that you have a skilled level of self defense tactics that can all you to relax with self confidence? >This thought also comes to mind: before I could run, I had to >learn to walk, before then: crawl. I rarely run for any >purpose (though the mirror tells me I should). However, I >would hope if my life depended on it, I would run like the >wind, and not revert to walking or skipping ;-) :-) Well I am getting a bit long in the tooth and have some health issues with my heart. So I don't think I'll ever run because I would rather have my strength and endurance at it's highest level defending myself - rather than running - getting winded and tired and then forced to turn around and defend myself. >Thanks for the good discussion. It's always good to get alternative points of view other than our own. It alls us to evaluate our belief system and if we find holes in our logic then plug them :-) Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:39:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 2nd International Martial Arts Games Open Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The IMAG and it's parent, the International Martial Arts Games Committee, were a creation of Choi Hong Hi. It was founded in 1999 at the ITF International Championship held in Argentina. Gen. Choi wanted to bring martial arts of all different types together to demonstrate their skills and foster a brotherhood of martial art. The web site of the Chinese Olympic Committee has some postings on it about the games. Maybe some video will be put up. Robert Martin > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:24:45 -0700 > From: The_Dojang > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] 2nd International Martial Arts > Games Open > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > 2nd International Martial Arts Games Open > > Pyongyang, August 23 (KCNA) -- The 2nd > International Martial Arts > Games were opened with splendor at the Taekwon-Do > Hall in Chongchun > Street of Pyongyang Wednesday. The first games were > held in Pyongyang > in September 2004. The current games brought > together at least 500 > players and delegates from more than 40 countries > and regions. > === message truncated === --__--__-- Message: 17 From: To: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:37:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Temporary Black Belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have seen some schools do this and other that don't. It sound like just another testing fee to me, nickel and dime. If the instructor doesn't know by now if his student has a attitude or could have a attitude being a black belt then the instructor was not doing a good job. You address attitude problems as you see them and I think (in my experience) you would see these problems before black belt if he/she is going to have them. My two cent. Vincent --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest