Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 03:00:27 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #365 - 19 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Mark Lasich, Ray Terry on "cho" (WTSDA Bruce) 2. Soo Bahk Do in Mass (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 3. Personnel Reshuffle (The_Dojang) 4. school owners-lease stuff/financial stuff (Mark Gajdostik) 5. Video clip: sifu rudy talks internal (Jye nigma) 6. Re: Mark Lasich, Ray Terry on "cho" (Jay O'Connor) 7. Re: Cho Dan (Lasich, Mark D.) 8. RE: Mark Lasich, Ray Terry on "cho" (Rick Clark) 9. Going West or North West (Horold whalen) 10. Cho Dan (Curt McCauley) 11. FW: Mexico City School (CHUCK LUNTZ) 12. FW: Mexico City School (CHUCK LUNTZ) 13. FW: Mexico City School (CHUCK LUNTZ) 14. Re: school owners-lease stuff/financial stuff (Thomas Gordon) 15. TKD in Cuidad de Mexico (Ray) 16. RE: TKD in Cuidad de Mexico (Joseph Cheavens) 17. Be a master the easy way (Gordon) 18. Chuck Norris Facts (Gordon) 19. [RE][The_Dojang] Be a master the easy way (A) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mark Lasich, Ray Terry on "cho" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:24:12 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sounds like how I have been taught to count, hanna dul set are used in class to count out basic punching or kiciking drills. Il, E, Sam, I was told is the more formal way to count and are used in names of hyings and Gup/Dan levels. How do you count above Yol (10) lets say 11 or 21? Thanks Sir ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mark Lasich, Ray Terry on "cho" >> These numbers are listed under "sino-korean" in our manual. The >> others >> (il, etc.) are listed as Korean. I have had it put to me to think of it >> as >> "first' rather than "one". > > Are you perhaps thinking of hanna vs. il instead of cho vs. il? > > Hanna, Dul, Set, Net. Il, E, Sam, Sa... ??? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:59:46 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Soo Bahk Do in Mass Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Speaking to the post about organizations and the Soo Bahk Do school in Mass. I began in a Kung Fu school as a young man (The East Texas Kung Fu Exchange). Kung Fu was not something that really held my interest, and the organization and the school were had no organization at all. I only stayed 9 months. I then joined a WTF, TKD school in Longview, Texas. This was in 1980. The instructor was Master Tae Kim. He was very hard, but his connection to the WTF was not good, and he school had no real organization either. I began to believe that was just how it was with Martial arts schools After training there for quite a while, Master Kim died in a diving acceident in Korea. His sons took over the school, and everything changed. Price went up and the Quality of instruction went down. I left the school and found my current instructor Kris Poole Sa Bom Nim. He was very hard , and I liked that. His school was very organized, and his connection with the Moo Duk Kwan was very clear. Then I visited two other Moo Duk Kwan schools during my first year as a moo Duk Kwan student. I noticed that each school was standarized, they were all teaching from the same page. Later I realized that the official Moo Duk Kwan schools were all standarized, and governed by one organization. This did not mean all the instructors taught the same way, but that the schools used the same basic curriculum, and that the ranks were recognized everywhere. I noticed that the people I met across the country learned the same things I did at the same ranks, and there was not much difference in the instruction at all. I 1992 I began to cross train in Jujitsu. I have been in several schools clinics, and two organizations. The instruction varies greatly, and the organizations were all lacking in standarized material, ranks, philosophy, and technique. I still train and teach both Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and jujitsu, but can say from my experiance, The US Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation is the most organized, and the most connected to the schools, then any other organization I have ever seen. Master Harwood in Mass. Is a great instructor. I know him quite well as I am sure Master McCauley from this do-jang does as well. He is a legitamate 6th Dan, and his son is testing for 4th dan this January at the legendary week long 4th dan test (Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa) If it helps you make a educated decision about were to train, I will stamp my name on the school, organization, and instructor in Mass Master James Harwood. JC Cox www.mdkregionsix.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 08:43:41 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Personnel Reshuffle Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF Conducts Partial Personnel Reshuffle 28 Aug 2006 The World Taekwondo Federation conducted a partial personnel reshuffle affecting four staffs on Aug. 28, 2006, in a move to enhance the efficiency and responsiveness of its headquarters administration. Under the reshuffle, Mr. Sang-heon Lee, director of the Sport Division, was transferred to the Marketing Division, while Mr. Hai-min Yoo, director of the Refereeing Division, was assigned as the director of the Sport Division. Ms. Miri Kim, a staff at the Refereeing Division, was appointed to serve the Marketing Division, while Mr. Jay (Jaewook) Lee, a staff at the Marketing Division, was assigned to the Refereeing Division. "The personnel change was made to help activate WTF marketing activities and carry out more transparent refereeing and sport administration," said WTF President Chungwon Choue. The reshuffle shortly followed the WTF's announcement on the outcome of its Sanction Committee regarding the administration and operation of international referees. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Mark Gajdostik" To: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:22:35 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] school owners-lease stuff/financial stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, To the school owners out there: How did you 'splain your financial situation to lenders or to solidify credit background for lease terms when you were just opening your school? (as you may have had few, and possibly no, students--or no MA biz background) I have been steadily building a student base in community programs as a volunteer, but now I'm faced with showing both bank and lessor that MA is a viable business to back. I am having the City do a financial statement on $$ brought in by the program, but it was VERY inexpensive--so not much of a financial positive. Thanks in advance, Mark Gajdostik TNT-Martial Arts www.TNTma.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:14:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: MartialArtsTalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clip: sifu rudy talks internal Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRRt_dtwRDg --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:19:25 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mark Lasich, Ray Terry on "cho" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ---- WTSDA Bruce wrote: > Sounds like how I have been taught to count, hanna dul set are used in class > to count out basic punching or kiciking drills. Il, E, Sam, I was told is > the more formal way to count and are used in names of hyings and Gup/Dan > levels. I took it as "Hanna, Dul,...." were numbers "1, 2" and "Ill, Ee, Sam" where ordering of "First, Second, etc..." > > How do you count above Yol (10) lets say 11 or 21? Yol-Hanna, etc...is 11 but, like Spanish, I think that pattern gives out pretty soon Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:40:02 -0400 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang \(Dojang\)" Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Cho Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks to all for the replies on the meaning of "Cho" - to balance things in my mind, I like the concept of beginning, rather than equating to a specific number. I also heard first, second, third, etc. as Il, Ee, Sam and one, two, three as Hanna, Du, Set...... "Curt McCauley" wrote: >>In the Pyong Ahn Hyung, cho dan would mean the first level of the Pyong Ahn >>series. Actually, I believe, Ee Dan used to be Cho Dan, but that's a whole different story. I know I've heard this regarding the Chul-sun forms, but not the Pyong Ahn forms. Was this the case for both sets of forms, or has my memory failed me again? Thanks again for all the replies. In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:41:36 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Mark Lasich, Ray Terry on "cho" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce, >From: WTSDA Bruce [mailto:wtsda-samdan@sbcglobal.net] >Sounds like how I have been taught to count, hanna dul set are >used in class >to count out basic punching or kiciking drills. Il, E, Sam, I >was told is >the more formal way to count and are used in names of hyings >and Gup/Dan >levels. As I pointed out in a previous post Hana, Dul, Set, Net . . . . Are the same as one, two, three, four . . . . Il (cho), E, Sam, Sa, O . . . . Are the same as 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, When counting out push up's in English you would count one, two, three, four, not first, second, third, fourth . . . . >How do you count above Yol (10) lets say 11 or 21? Shp is 10, sip sa = 14, E is 2 so 20 = e sip, sam sip = 30, sam sip sa = 34. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Horold whalen To: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net, dpjang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Going West or North West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have had a lot of changes in my life in the past two years ,Some positive and some i would rather for forget . I returned back to teaching Hapkido for a while until they sold the Dojang . Also I met a woman whom has no Idea what Hapkido is or who Hal Whalen is other than the Guy that "rocks " her world ,And too me this is more important than Who studied under Whom. In the End when are bodies are broken and no longer able to do the Hapkido we thought was such an important part of our lives ,We are still loved and this is what it is all about. On a personal note my Health is great ,I feel fantastic my strength has returned ,Minus the attitude .It made me realize what is important ,or trivial and WHO were your REAL friends and those going through the motions . I am leaving the Boston area heading across the U.S to Everett Wash. It is a work thing since I refuse to earn a living teaching Hapkido ,I am not sure of the exact dates I will be headed out there ,i will be looking for a new Dojang to train at or a hook To hang my Dobok in between workouts Also I may work it out and conduct Seminars along the way ,If there is an interest or I could come to your Dojang and teach the Evening class's ? just an idea and a way to meet some of the people I have talked with over the years . My Hapkido family This will or may determine the route I will take as I map it out . __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:07:15 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Cho Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I took a look at the "Cho Dan" Certificate issued to me from Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim, and then looking up the characters in "A guide to Korean Characters, reading and writing Hangul and Hanja" by Bruce K Grant. (ISBN: 0-930878-13-2) The first character, #306, translates to "First" or "beginning" and is pronounced "Cho" with a long "O", the second character, #644, translates to "level", "section", "division", or piece" and is pronounced "Dahn" not Dan like in Danny. Just for fun, the character for "one" (a single horizontal line), (ironically it is #1 or the first character in the book) means "one"; "unity"; "the same"; with lesser meanings of "first"; and "the first", and is pronounced as "IL" like as being sick, but more closer to "eel" (according to the hangul) like in the fish. My Instructor, Robert Shipley, recieved his Cho Dan in Korea in 1961. I have seen it and there was no english translation as there was/is in future issuances. I will try to take a closer look at it the next time I visit his studio to look for the characters used to denote the "Cho Dan". Also I had to wait many months, for my Cho Dan Certificate, and I remained an "IL GUP" until the Cerficate was presented me along with the belt, which was inscribed "U.S. Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan" to denote which country I was from. The wait was part of "In Neh" which is incorrectly called "endurance." But that, as they say, "is another story" I hope this helps. Curt McCauley Chief Instructor Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "CHUCK LUNTZ" To: "Dojang" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:31:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] FW: Mexico City School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a student moving to Santa Fe, Mexico City. The postal code (codigo postal) is 01210 for business center also 05100. She is a Green Belt in the WTF of TKD doing the Taeguek forms. Any assistance will be appreciated and forwarded to her. Thank you Chuck Charles Luntz Charles Luntz & Associates, Inc. Executive Search Services 1734 Clarkson Road, #223 Chesterfield, MO 63017 636-787-7992 636-751-5287-cell 636-273-9649-fax --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "CHUCK LUNTZ" To: "Dojang" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:31:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] FW: Mexico City School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a student moving to Santa Fe, Mexico City. The postal code (codigo postal) is 01210 for business center also 05100. She is a Green Belt in the WTF of TKD doing the Taeguek forms. Any assistance will be appreciated and forwarded to her. Thank you Chuck Charles Luntz Charles Luntz & Associates, Inc. Executive Search Services 1734 Clarkson Road, #223 Chesterfield, MO 63017 636-787-7992 636-751-5287-cell 636-273-9649-fax --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "CHUCK LUNTZ" To: "Dojang" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:31:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] FW: Mexico City School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a student moving to Santa Fe, Mexico City. The postal code (codigo postal) is 01210 for business center also 05100. She is a Green Belt in the WTF of TKD doing the Taeguek forms. Any assistance will be appreciated and forwarded to her. Thank you Chuck Charles Luntz Charles Luntz & Associates, Inc. Executive Search Services 1734 Clarkson Road, #223 Chesterfield, MO 63017 636-787-7992 636-751-5287-cell 636-273-9649-fax --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] school owners-lease stuff/financial stuff From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Gajdostik, The three C’s. Cash flow, collateral, character. Something that I have come to realize running a martial art school is that banks want to see some type of past monthly cash flow (easy to produce - show them the monthly bank logs of deposits) but they’ll also want to see how you can guarantee that cash flow to continue. It MAY be enough if you can show that you’ve gone up every single month but contracts is the real key. The bank will want some type of asset to guarantee their money. They want to lend money but they also want to get it back. Trick here is to show enough collateral but not too much. They’d love to attach everything you got and they will if you list it. So if I want to borrow $25K, I show I own one lot worth $45K. They lein it and I’m good to go. One time I showed two pieces of property and they did a lien on both so I couldn’t sell either one of the lots. A lesson well taught is a lesson well learned.... Lastly, you’ll need character. This is critical for a home town bank and irreverent to the large chains. The big national banks look at Beacon score, cash flow, and collateral. Beacon score always matter but it’s real critical when dealing with national chains. Be sure to review your beacon score and credit history before accepting the number as correct. I recently found some mistakes on mine and corrected it. In a few weeks I’ll review it again. Don’t be discouraged if a bank says no. Try another. Everything is negotiable so don’t settle for what they bring to the table. I’ve talked interest down from 12% to 8%. But, it helps if everything lines up meaning the bank has about a 100% guarantee of return. Best of luck in your new adventure. One thing I learned was I didn’t charge enough – no where near enough. We’ve been in business for three years and we’ve doubled our rate. I get just as many price objections now as I did three years ago. People are willing to pay for professional services. With that said, your current student base may not because they are used to the much lower rate (with much lower overhead). Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD in Cuidad de Mexico Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One option is to look for options via the yellow pages. Go to: http://www.seccionamarilla.com.mx. Write MOO DUK KWAN over the "¿Qué estoy buscando?" field. Select "DF (Zona Metropolitana)" on the "¿En qué estado?" field. Click "Buscar". There are several... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] TKD in Cuidad de Mexico Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:14:26 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't know of any particular schools, but I've fought a few guys from Mexico in a few tournaments and found them to be very good and very tough. Joe Cheavens --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:13:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Be a master the easy way Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Learn to be a master while you sleep. : ) http://cgi.ebay.com/ULTRASONIC-SUBLIMINAL-MARTIAL-ARTS-KARATE-TAE-KWON-DO_W0 QQitemZ140022577640QQihZ004QQcategoryZ36281QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 18 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:59:31 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Chuck Norris Facts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I like this one : ) When Chuck Norris was denied an Egg McMuffin at McDonald's because it was 10:35, he roundhouse kicked the store so hard it became a Wendy's. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 19 From: "A" Organization: Lycos. Inc. To: Subject: [RE][The_Dojang] Be a master the easy way Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Boy have I been going about this wrong! ;) ~Anj Learn to be a master while you sleep. : ) http://cgi.ebay.com/ULTRASONIC-SUBLIMINAL-MARTIAL-ARTS-KARATE-TAE-KWON-DO_W0 QQitemZ140022577640QQihZ004QQcategoryZ36281QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Gordon Okerstrom The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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