Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:41:17 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #377 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Staph (EEK3@aol.com) 2. Staph or MRSA? (Frank Clay) 3. TKD-MDK (Johnnie Rouse) 4. 10 best IRs (The_Dojang) 5. Re: TKD MooDukKwan (Vernon Noble) 6. RE: 10 best IRs (David P. Zapencki) 7. mats (Mark Gajdostik) 8. Re: 10 best IRs (Ray) 9. Moo Duk Kwan (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 10. RE: Korean swords and other concealed weapons (Jonathan Boorstein) 11. Re: Moo Duk Kwan (Ray) 12. RE: mats (Thomas Gordon) 13. Re: TKD-MDK (John Chambers) 14. Re: Moo Duk Kwan (Steven Berkowitz) 15. Peter Urban (Ray) 16. Re: Peter Urban (Steven Berkowitz) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: EEK3@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 07:20:58 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Staph Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just read about the Staph problem. As a former EMT and a current nurse I'd like to recomend a cleaning solution. Make a water and bleach solution with a ratio of 10% bleach to 90%water. We were taught this even helps kill the HIV / AIDS virus. We would clean most everything on our ambulances with this. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 07:45:18 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Staph or MRSA? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net < To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] staph? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the latest episode of TUF4 they have an outbreak of staph (staphylococcus aureus bacteria) in the gym. Anyone had a problem with this on their studio mats? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com>> Ray, this is unfortunately becoming very common. The worry here is that you have to concerned with MRSA (pronounced MERSA). It is methicillian resistant staph and is cropping up in gyms every where. It used to be that if you got it, you were either in prison or exposed in the hospital but now you can get it in the regular population. If you get this bug, or you have been exposed to someone who has it, you need to be on the lookout for symptoms. Since it often gets misdiagnosed you can get pretty damn sick before they figure out whats wrong. My wife caught it in the hospital. In her case, it was manifested as folliculitis and I was helping her with what I thought was an angry pimple. Keeping it clean and so forth. Not realizing that I was actually messing with an infectious disease. Incidentally, if you get MRSA, you'll need to see an infectious disease doctor. Frank --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:15:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD-MDK Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 10 best IRs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Best 10 International Referees at the 1st WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships (Sept. 4-6, 2006) 08 Sep 2006 1. Mr. Kim Kang Ein - KOREA 2. Mr. Shin Tong Wan - UK 3. Mr. Varo Darid Barragan - PANAMA 4. Ms. Carmen Navarro - SPAIN 5. Mr. Teon Chin Lim - SINGAPORE 6. Ms. Nur Syahidah Binti - MALAYSIA 7. Mr. Kim Jong Wan - FRANCE 8. Mr. Hafez Mahdavi - IRAN 9. Mr. Santigo Escutia Martin - MEXICO 10. Mr. Joon No - AUSTRALIA --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 11:25:40 -0400 From: Vernon Noble To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] TKD MooDukKwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: >> Thank you Ray, There are many folks in the world apparently not knowledgeable >> nor experienced enough to understand every thing that was involved with the >> split in the MooDukKwan. The folks on both side of this split for the most >> part have reconciled their differences on personal level, however still remain >> separate organizations. >> Most snide comments I see today usually come from younger inexperienced >> members that really don't have a clue as to the complicated situation that >> lead to the split in the first place. Maybe a little more respect and a lot >> less ignorance should be shown, it would go a long way. >> > > Perhaps true in some instances, but a portion of this issue also comes down > to an honest disagreement in exactly what being MDK means. > > To me and many others it indicates your lineage, i.e. that you trace your > TSD or TKD lineage back to Hwang Kee. > > To others it implies that you are a member of one particular organization, > the one currently headed by HC Hwang. > > I can easily see how an argument can be made either way. I personally > fall into the former group. Mr. Cox and some others on this list fall into > the latter group. > > Just like any large family, disagreements are to be expected. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > This is very complicated. I have my original 1st Dan certificate on the wall of my Dojang from 1979 saying that I am a member of the Moo Duk Kwan. I have worn the words Moo Duk Kwan on my Dobalk ever since. Now a faction says that I am to remove this emblem from my Dobalk since the Moo Duk Kwan is no more (which we have done. My frustration is that I have always been true to what the Moo Duk Kwan has embodied. All politics need to be abolished, somehow. My Dojang is now independent, and I feel much less pressure, and I still remain true to what Grandmaster Hwang Kee started, and also to my instructors, Master C.S. Kim and Master Jeong Sook Lee. Vern Noble (North Carolina) --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 10 best IRs Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:30:18 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Best according too... -----Original Message----- From: The_Dojang [mailto:the.dojang.digest@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 10:10 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 10 best IRs Best 10 International Referees at the 1st WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships (Sept. 4-6, 2006) 08 Sep 2006 1. Mr. Kim Kang Ein - KOREA 2. Mr. Shin Tong Wan - UK 3. Mr. Varo Darid Barragan - PANAMA 4. Ms. Carmen Navarro - SPAIN 5. Mr. Teon Chin Lim - SINGAPORE 6. Ms. Nur Syahidah Binti - MALAYSIA 7. Mr. Kim Jong Wan - FRANCE 8. Mr. Hafez Mahdavi - IRAN 9. Mr. Santigo Escutia Martin - MEXICO 10. Mr. Joon No - AUSTRALIA _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Mark Gajdostik" To: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 08:32:26 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] mats Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, Anyone have experience with the simulated wood-grain puzzle mats? Which company did you get them from? How well can you clean them? I have always had a solid wood/carpet floor in my schools, with heavier mats for the adventure of heavy landings. Mark Gajdostik TNT Martial Arts 503-887-9351 www.TNTma.com [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 10 best IRs To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 08:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Best according too... The WTF. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:05:20 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net First let me say I agree with Ray that some describe being MDK as having lineage back to Hwang Kee KJN. and Some describe it as being a current member. In the NFL if a man is traded from the Cowboys to the Redskins which one is he? I agree people should know and understand their lineage, rather that is with the MDK or some other organization, but to leave or split from that organization and still came to be a part of it is IMHO wrong. As for the post about my experiance. I have been involved in Kung-Fu witht he East Texas Kung-Fu Exchange, I was a member of the WTF, bt today I have no ties to either and claim no connection other than the fact I did train with both organizations. I have been with the Moo Duk Kwan about 25 years, my first 4 dan certificates are signed by the founder Hwang Kee, and my 5th Dan certificate is signed by the current president HC Hwang KJN I have set and listened to both the founder and the current president dicuss the the history and the original split. I would venture to say the man that posted I was in experianced has never trained under the founder Hwang Kee or HC Hwang KJN. My experiance is not a question, you source of information may on the other hand be less than creditable. JC Cox www.mdkregionsix.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:28:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Boorstein To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Korean swords and other concealed weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the September 2005 issue of Arts in Asia there is an article entitled "Acrobatic Encounters: Korean horseback acrobats in Tokugawa Japan and their reprentation in popular art". Briefly, the article discussing the historical context and implications of Korean diplomatic visits to Japan in the 17th and 18th centuries. The visits included displays of military equestrian skills. Although the article does not discuss the point, at least one of the prints covered by the author includes Koreans armed with swords. The swords are slightly curved. The artists of the sets of prints depict the Japanese swords as straight. As for Mr. O'Connor's musings about Duncan MacLeod's liability for carrying concealed weapons, someone at a fan conference asked Adrian Paul exactly where did the Highlander conceal his weapon. Paul deadpanned "in a protological scabbard". If nothing else, it would explain why, as an actor, Paul was so bloody stiff. JB --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > In the NFL if a man is traded from the Cowboys to the Redskins which one is > he? So being MDK is like being paid to play football? Being MDK is something that can change from year to year?!? Perhaps there-in lies part of why the two groups may never understand each other. Being MDK is your family, your lineage. That does not, cannot, will not change. Being "in the SBD MDK" is something that can change from month to month, year to year. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] mats Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 13:56:01 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Gajdostik, We have the wood grain mats in our school. A few things you'll want to know before buying them. 1 - You can not line up the wood grain. When I called, they said it was a parque look. I busted out laughing saying I'd never seen 40" parque. It's a screw up on the manufacture's part - short and simple. 2 - The wood grain mats cut design won't match any other mat. In other words, once you've got wood grain, you're only using wood grain. 3 - The wood grain look is like a screen print. Once I got them, I thought "well of course." The point here is the colored ones are color fast so if you cut/scrape it, you really couldn't tell. With these, you scrape it and not only is the texture gone (as would be with the colored mats) but you can readily see it. In other words, never, never wear shoes on the mats. 4 - They're expensive. Roughly 2-3 times what a regular mat would have been. We wanted first class and we got it - this floor is really nice and gives a great impression. However, the life of the flooring is about one year and then we'll have to flip it over on the other side meaning we'll be lucky to get two years out of it. You can see pictures under the photos section/link. Go to 2006 links and you'll see the remodeling where we installed the flooring. www.GordonMartialArts.com And to sum it up, if I'd known what I know now, I wouldn't have bought them. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] TKD-MDK Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:41:16 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At the time of my promotion by Kang Ik Lee, I had sponsored him to tour the USA, along with the then President of the Korea Yudo College and the Korea Olympic Yudo Team. As their host to the USA, I was fortunate enough to travel with them, pick their brains and spend some awesome training time with just about all of them. We put on demonstrations, seminars and clinics at many universities and pre-arranged events across the country. John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD-MDK > As > was > <1960s. > > > Same Here, but with Hong, Chong Soo/ John where did you train in Korea, I > was > in Pyeongtaek and Seoul. > Johnnie Rouse > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:39:49 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I understand Ray's point- I came up through Peter Urban Goju(my main style), though I have trained in many arts and systems over 38 years(as specialized learnings for specific projects and purposes). I still consider myself a "Peter Urban" goju man in spite of BB ranks in a number of arts(Ok., Jp., Kor) and even while I serve an association(shito ryu) as a High Dan Board member, I still consider myself a goju guy. And my "family will always be the crazy east coast guys or USAGA and its derivatives. Now, all you "Korean system or nothing guys - don't get in a lather - I was also once upon a time a MDKTSD as well as later a MDKTKD guy. And some time also in hapkido. SAB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" To: Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan > > In the NFL if a man is traded from the Cowboys to the Redskins which one is > > he? > > So being MDK is like being paid to play football? Being MDK is something > that can change from year to year?!? > > Perhaps there-in lies part of why the two groups may never understand > each other. > > Being MDK is your family, your lineage. That does not, cannot, will not > change. > > Being "in the SBD MDK" is something that can change from month to month, > year to year. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006 --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Peter Urban Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... - I came up through Peter Urban Goju(my main style), > though I have trained in many arts and systems over 38 years(as specialized > learnings for specific projects and purposes). > I still consider myself a "Peter Urban" goju man .... Tell us a bit about training with Peter Urban. I believe he studied with the likes of Richard Kim, Gogen Yamaguchi, and Mas Oyama.!. yes? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Steven Berkowitz" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Peter Urban Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 20:13:30 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings: You will have to forgive, as Peter Urban was given to "intellectual stimulation" and "creative provocation" when encouraging his students(as well as many many exercises and much pain bareknickle sparring) . Both are very honorable suuplements to the rigorous sweat and pain diet. However, he was a dunamic and demanding teacher, but loved gis kai well and very much, and, as such, allowed himself to remain open to being taken advantahe of often, by those closest to him. 2 short anecdotes- #1 For about a year he lived in So. Jersey at the Olympic Center in Bridgeton, NJ(sometime 69-70ish). That's where I first met him. Extreme black hair, slicked back, always in black sweats and a black sleeveless tshirt with a white towel around his neck. I don't know that I ever really saw him in a gi, and, if he ever was, believe me it would have been black. He was the teacher of Joe Artesi at the time, and we were many under Artesi then. Years later(early 80s), living in Ashtabula, Ohio, we went to NJ to see my family. We went to his home in Williamstown, NJ (I am a Vineland boy, about 30 minutes away). Took my unsuspecting bride with me; new still wedded bliss thing) and arrived, his home. Parked, went to the door nearest the parking area of his yard. A door that leads to the kitchen, up 1/2 flight, and down to basement 1/2 flight. At the door, in black wide permamarker, a note, written on the door grame vertically "Do NOT knock on this door or ring this bell" Then, a properly worded POLITE threat upon the life of any violator. An arrow drawn on the side of the house 3' long pointing to the front of the house. And. from the arrow a long black line drawn with intermittent arrowheads leading all the way to the front door bell. Another drawn sign on the clapboard of the house front, "Ring THIS one or KNock, and enter the world of..........." with a list of Urban's inimitable parsing of prose........Newark, NYC, Harlem decipherable. His lady answers, lets us in, goes to announce us. He comes out of a room on the first floor, back toward the kitchen(house 2 story and basement, one of those 1930 big family deals) and says "Berkowitz, life sensei candidate. Step in", and leads us to ..........his bedroom. In his bedrrom, his doublesized bed, ip on concrete blocks. On the far side of the room, a full sized refrigerator, up on concrete blocks. He sits down begind a massive oak desk in his bedroom, reaches into the air ro a wire strung across his bedroom and unhooks one of about 300 ballpoint pens. He says" I will be taking notes and holding you accountable, Berkowitz, don't F___ with me" (That's how you knew he liked./ loved you- he swore at you face to face. After 10 minutes of perfunctory chitchat, my bride excuses herself to the loo. She returns 10 minytes later with glazed look on her face, looks at me in wideeyed wonder and glances up at the pens. Whispers in my ear "The toilet paper in on wire overhead in bathroom, 30 rolls" Urban says, "Does she have a question?" I said "No, she was simply sharing that the tp is also overhead. Would you share with her why?" "Certainly. I AM an efficiency expert" (BYW, in his 60s, Peter Urban went back to college at Columbia Univ and achieved a Masters or PhD in psychology.) "When I need to wipe my ass, I don't want my knees to get in the way or for the paper to be unable to come off the roll quickly. Like my pens-when I need one, why should I have to search and g-d'd desk drawer to find one. I just reach up, and what I need is there" So I say "Sensei- could you also explain the bed and refrigerator on blocks?" "Berkowitz, you Jewish schmuck, you know damned well why. When I want to go to bed, the edge of the bed is precisely at the level of my ass and I don't have to drop down or climb up. And the refrigerator is on blocks in case it rains and floods." "Schmuck". So, why did he have a full-sized refrigerator in his room? He never said, and it wasn't important to me. We went down to his basement and he beat the heck out of me. #2 (Same bride) Living still in Ashtabula, Ohio. We have 5 businesses going, including a 5000 sf dojo, and I am teaching karate & SD at two high schools on a paid basis. Weekend, phone rings. Sandra answers, brings to me outside. Says "It's Peter Urban" "Oh crap, I whisper..." I take the phone, he starts tearing me up for not calling often enough, not coming to see him, not supporting him financially, am I a "career sensei" or "just another karate douchebag.." on and on. Sandra says, "Why is he yelling at you? Hang up on him!" I am frantically shaking my head no, no, no to her. She storms away. After the phone beating, I go in the house, and she sats "I can't believe you took that from him.He's 700 miles away. What is he going to do, reach through the phone and choke you or something?" I look at her, calibrating my answer to my known reality, and state "Yes. He probably could." And meant it. Peter Urban was an enigma- there's just no explaining him well to those who did not know him. I could get you hundreds if not thousands of very weird stories about things he's done and been seen doing them. He was, and will remain, larger than life, larger than his many mistakes, foibles and failures.. He, and another 15 or so east coast nutcases, are the true pioneers of the karate world in the USA, and they all have stories, weird yet true. Urban could make you hare training with one blow, and as the pain subsided, have you realize YOU wanted to knwo how this magic was done to you. He alone showed me the need for a mentor, and showed me what could be learned in spite of human limitations. He was, and will forever be, "The Karate Sensei". He produced true champions of life as well as of karate. Crazy as a coot in many ways, and yet the most upfront,honest, straight as an arrow(peppermint schnappes and all) in his self-assessment of his own demons and everyone elses, and with a keen wit and insight meant to force you into self-confrontation so that nobofy would ever bend you to THEIR will. The consumate rough-edged gentleman, Peter Urban. Sorely missed. I was blessed that before moving to Seattle area in 1999, (in late 90s) Frank Ruiz asked me to shag the (Miami) flies from his back. On weekend, my wife and I would drive 2 weekends a month or on call to pick up Frank and take him to tournaments or arrange to meet him at some, to cover him from all those flies that wanted and wanted. When Frank was on his VA Hosp. deathbed, I called Maestro Urban and explained that Frank had asked me to call and give Urban Frank's farewell forgiveness and blessing. Maestro called Frank and went to the hosp. and saw him a couple times before Frank passed. They kissed and made up. Frank left no heir-apparent prenamed to the Nisei Goju family. Maestro Urban appointed Wilfredo Roldan(NYC) to the post on Frank's begalf after Frank passed on. Not too long after, Maestro Urban passed also, and the USA Goju family got divided up, with South going to Steve Malanoski, whom I had handed over my Cape Coral, Fl. school to in 1997. Both are even more extreme than Maestro Urban was. blessings, Steven A. Berkowitz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" To: Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 5:47 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Peter Urban > > ... - I came up through Peter Urban Goju(my main style), > > though I have trained in many arts and systems over 38 years(as specialized > > learnings for specific projects and purposes). > > I still consider myself a "Peter Urban" goju man .... > > Tell us a bit about training with Peter Urban. > > I believe he studied with the likes of Richard Kim, Gogen Yamaguchi, and > Mas Oyama.!. yes? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest