Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:20:20 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #383 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. antibiotics (Frank Clay) 2. Re: nothing new under the sun (sidtkd@aol.com) 3. Sid (Frank Clay) 4. RE: Staph (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 5. Richard Chun (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 6. RE: another staph story (Joseph Cheavens) 7. RE: Second MMA fight this past Saturday (Joseph Cheavens) 8. Elecronic chest protectors (The_Dojang) 9. Early 60's forms taught by Richard Chun (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 10. MDK Thanks (Dennis McHenry) 11. MDK_TKD (Johnnie Rouse) 12. Congrats (Rudy Timmerman) 13. Re: Re: nothing new under the sun (John Chambers) 14. Re: Re: Moo Duk Kwan-1964 (John Chambers) 15. RE: Second MMA fight this past Saturday (Thomas Gordon) 16. The Protector (Gordon) 17. Re: Re: nothing new under the sun (Samurai Latino) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:13:31 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] antibiotics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Don, You said <,The antibiotics only keep the bacterial lode at a manageable level. It's the bodies white cells and natural cellular defense mechanisms that actually destroys the bacterial infection. It helps to have a strong body and "right mind" when dealing with bacterial infections. Regards, Don Kirsch>> This is not true. Antibacterial agents kill bacteria; however, they are indiscriminate. What you are thinking of is antibacterial soaps which help manage the bacterial load present on the skin. Now, there are exceptions to what I just told you as it is a generalization. For example, Betasept is used by surgeons to sanitize their hands. I'm not by any means playing down having a strong body because in the final analysis that will help determine your recovery from severe injury or infection but lets also temper that one with common sense. You can't discount modern medicine or science. Doing so is foolhardy. Note: That doesn't mean either is perfect but consider this, people today, including martial artists, live longer thanks to medicine and science. I dare say martial artists of old also had strong bodies, yes? f. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:13:32 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: nothing new under the sun Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I guess the rudiments of taekwondo existed in 1963 although I never heard the term taekwondo back then. I heard tae soo, tae bek as well as the multiple kwans. While I'm not claiming to know everything under the sun, I dare say that no one in 1964 in New York at least, was sporting the name taekwondo. Even S. Henry Cho didn't use tkd and he was the first. Sid --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:16:26 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sid Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net TKD was formulated in 1955. So he "could have" taught it; however, per Master Chun's writings he did not convert to TKD until the 70's. Its in the book published by YMAA. I'm forgetting the title right now. f. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:25:20 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Staph Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank: Very interesting!! I didn't know that Native Americans were more susceptible to MRSA-CA. I don't have much of that heritage though, so that probably wasn't a factor for me. It's good to hear that your wife made a full recovery! Don: I don't like thinking about a staph infection in the chest -- that must have been scary. I think that would have been a lot harder for me to handle, and even more so if it had been my son and not myself. I've had plenty of time on this earth, but anytime my kid has a problem, I freak. I had my infection in the lower legs, and it was unlikely to spread very far -- I was pretty happy I didn't have it anywhere near my heart or my head. I think covering any scrapes or cuts would have prevented my infection. I had banged my shin that week and that was exactly where the infection began. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:42:49 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Richard Chun Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid wrote: >TKD became official in 1973. Dr. Chun couldn't have taught tkd in 1964. Actually, Richard Chun says he began studying taekwondo at the age of 11 from Chong Soo Hong and Ki Whang Kim (although this may have actually been called kongsudo or tangsudo in those years -- tkd was founded in 1955). He graduated from Yon Sei University in 1957, where he organized and served as team captain of the Taekwondo Club. In the 1960s he organized the Annual Universal Taekwondo Championships. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] another staph story Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:49:45 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Don: I love your sig line. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Kirsch" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: "the_dojang" Subject: [The_Dojang] another staph story Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:26:09 -0500 Mr. Burdick I'm glad to hear you are healing from your bout with staph. To make a long story short I have a 22 yr. old son who got shot in the chest with a pellet gun this summer (the long story part). He dug the pellet out of his chest and didn't pay any attention to "sound health and hygiene common sense". About a week later he contracted a form of staph in his chest. With the right medical treatment he was able to stop the infection with no serious consequences. The various forms of staph lurking out there are a definite health concern. I think it's interesting to note the way antibiotics work. The antibiotics only keep the bacterial lode at a manageable level. It's the bodies white cells and natural cellular defense mechanisms that actually destroys the bacterial infection. It helps to have a strong body and "right mind" when dealing with bacterial infections. Regards, Don Kirsch "Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." Theodore Roosevelt _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Second MMA fight this past Saturday Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:58:02 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig: Congrats on your win and thanks for sharing. I just did my second BJJ class last night. Totally different ball game from TKD. I can see how that guy gassed out. During the round robin sparring last night I was totally exhauasted after just a couple of rounds. Of course, since I don't really know what I'm doing yet, I'm rellying to much on strength to try and power through the techniques and I think that really contributes to my exhaustion. Be sure to let us know how you do in your next figth. Good luck and happy head hunting. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stovall, Craig" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Second MMA fight this past Saturday Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:44:49 -0500 I had my second MMA fight this past Saturday night. Interesting to say the least. As usual, I took it on short notice. I got the call on Tuesday night and decided to go ahead and take it. I was at the beginning of a training cycle to get ready for my fight in late October, and I was already feeling very strong and my endurance was better than it's been in months. I was told that the guy was experienced but not that great, and that it would be a good tune up match during my layoff between fights. So, I took it. Last time I gave up 17 lbs to the other guy. This guy was bigger too, but I really don't know by how much (they either didn't announce the weights, or I didn't pay attention). I weighed in at 182. Middleweight feels good for me. I'm much faster and more explosive with my bodyweight being down, but I'm still able to carry a lot of muscle and keep my strength high. The first round went very well. For whatever reason, I couldn't let my hands go (they felt frozen this time) so we quickly clenched and I got a big takedown off of a leg trip and into the mounted position. I had solid control...good head and arm control...used the grapevines to thwart his attempts to bridge and roll. He was stuck hard. He was a bit slippery and game on the bottom so I could never get a valid submission attempt going. Finally, at about 45 seconds left in the round he was able to bridge, and he ended up in my guard. He was gassed bad, so I just waited out the round and let him struggle in my guard. I won the first round easy, and I didn't want to make a stupid mistake. Second round started and AGAIN I just felt scared to let my hands go (everybody wants to see me knock people out, and I think it causes performance anxiety...I've got to figure it out). Anyway, he tries to punch but I shield well and force the clench. He actually catches me with a solid punch to the midsection while we're clenched, and then another one to the chin. My head is full of concrete so it's no problem. I hit him with some good knees, and start using my elbows to block his punches. I force myself closer in the clench and try to take his back from the standing position. During the struggle he loses balance and I pull him to the ground as I take his back. As soon as we hit the mat he turns into me as hard as he can, but I stop his turn by going underneath his right arm with my own right and then catching his head and arm in an arm triangle choke. I make a smart move by going to my right side and putting him in a tight guard position...from here I start to stretch him out and tighten the grip. I can hear him struggling to breathe and get out as I continue to try and get it tighter. For a moment, I thought he would get out, but it was just too much for him. I finally get my grip set like I want it, and stretch his body out with my legs one last time. He finally taps. He was a tough guy, but conditioning makes all the difference in these things. He was done after that first round. It felt good to win again...my friends and training partners were kidding and saying that now I've got a matching set, one KO and one submission. I've got to figure out the puzzle with my strikes. I haven't done any stand-up sparring since my last fight (just shadowboxing and focus mitts), and I think that's a missing piece of the puzzle. My grappling felt strong, and the guy just couldn't do much with me. My technique and composure has come a long way in the last few months (for whatever reason), and I take pride in my level of conditioning. That's my ace in the hole right there. Anyway, just sharing the experience. Thanks for listening. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 06:11:59 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Elecronic chest protectors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekwondo For using elecronic protectors WTF Signs Recognition Contract with LaJUST WTF's electronic protector demonstration The World Taekwondo Federation signed a recognition contract with LaJUST on electronic protectors at the headquarters of the WTF in Seoul on Sept. 11, 2006. The contract period is five years. With the signing, the WTF is able to use the electronic protectors in the taekwondo competition of the 18th World Taekowndo Championships scheduled for in May 2007 in Beijing, China, at the earliest. The introduction of electronic protectors is expected to greatly enhance the image of taekwondo and the WTF, as they could reduce possible controversies arising from judgment and refereeing at taekwondo competitions. "The signing bears a great significance in that the use of electronic protectors could make judgment at taekwondo competitions more objective and transparent," said WTF President Chungwon Choue. "It makes a milestone in the history of taekwondo and the WTF." According to the recommendations of the now disbanded WTF Reform Committee on fairer judgment and refereeing at taekwondo competitions, the WTF set up an ad-hoc Committee on Electronic Protectors in July 2005. The WTF held a demonstration of electronic protectors on July 20, 2005 in Seoul. In accordance with the recommendations of the ad-hoc committee after the first demonstration, the WTF commissioned the Korea Institute of Sports and Science (KISS) to produce a report on basic specifications of electronic protectors. On Dec. 30, 2005, the WTF announced the KISS-produced specifications on electronic protectors. The WTF held another demonstration of electronic protectors on March 25, 2006 in Seoul. The demonstration drew four electronic protector manufacturers – LaJUST of Korea; ATM of Austria; True Score (Impact Measurement), a joint venture between the Untied States and Korea; and Daedo International of Spain. The ad-hoc Committee on Electronic Protectors announced its evaluation results of the electronic protector demonstration on March 28, 2006. Of the four participating demonstrators, LaJUST was the only participants that passed the "acceptable" level of the basic technical requirements in four categories to be applied to taekwondo competition. The four categories are accuracy of the sense-impact level, differentiation of valid impact and invalid impact, consecutive impacts and calibration. According to the KISS report to the WTF in June this year, LaJUST also passed the laboratory tests, which involved transmission systems, safety on electricity and electronics, and endurance of materials. On July 29, 2006, there was a JaJUST demonstration of electronic protectors during the 6th WTF World Junior Taekwondo Championships in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, drawing a positive response from spectators. LaJUST started developing electronic protector systems in 1982 and has since conducted electronic-protector demonstrations at about 130 official and unofficial taekwondo competitions. As recently as in October 2003, LaJUST electronic protectors were used at the 24th Yonsei University President's Flag Taekwondo Championships in Seoul. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:49:51 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Early 60's forms taught by Richard Chun Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid, I can't be positive, but since no one else has responded, I will tell you that I believe at that time Grandmaster Chun would have been teaching the TSD MDK forms. This is based on information in a letter from him in the Mid 80's. I believe that in the opening of one of his books, "Tae Kwon Do" or "Advancing in Tae Kwon Do" he indicated his intent to produce a third book in that series which was devoted to the "old or original forms" of Tae Kwon Do. The forms would have been Ki Cho Il, E and Sam Bu; Pyong An Cho,E, Sam, Sah and Oh Dan, PalChe (Bassai Dai), Naihanchi Cho Dan and probably Ship Soo. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:53:16 -0500 From: "Dennis McHenry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK Thanks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Thank you for explaining the true meaning of being a member of a kwan > family. Ray wrote: It is just one view, my view (and perhaps that of several others). Doesn't mean it is correct... My response: Sure it does. Thanks Mac --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:54:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK_TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, > > TKD became official in 1973. Dr. Chun couldn't have taught tkd in > 1964. <1973 was when the WTF was formed. TKD preceeds that by a Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:38:40 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Congrats Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas writes: > And just so you know, Master Miner told me (in confidence of course) > that he felt like he could do six blocks....... Yes, I heard that too, and he said he would do that right after the sword cutting where he plans to make 10 half inch cuts out of a 12 inch board. All kidding aside, we plan to have fun and lots of old fashioned training. I wish to also congratulate Craig on his awesome performance. WTG Mr. Stovall. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: nothing new under the sun Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:53:25 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry Sid: But TKD did exist before 1964,because my Korea Black Belt Certification (1962) reads: TaeKwonDo / MooDuk Kwan. My certificates were signed by the then 2nd President of the Korea TKD Association; Kang Ik Lee! John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:13 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: nothing new under the sun >I guess the rudiments of taekwondo existed in 1963 although I never heard > the term taekwondo back then. I heard tae soo, tae bek as well as the > multiple > kwans. While I'm not claiming to know everything under the sun, I dare say > that no one in 1964 in New York at least, was sporting the name > taekwondo. Even > S. Henry Cho didn't use tkd and he was the first. > > > Sid > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Moo Duk Kwan-1964 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:58:01 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry again: I was teraching TKD in 1962 at my Martial Arts Academy at Anderson, Indiana. Master Glenn Keeny was one of my assistant instructors at the time, and he was then only a Green-Belt. Sung Jae Park and Young Nam Chung were also teaching TKD a their Academy at Muncie, Indiana, a neighboriung city of Anderson. John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:18 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Moo Duk Kwan-1964 > Ray, > > > TKD became official in 1973. Dr. Chun couldn't have taught tkd in > 1964. > > > Sid > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:01:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Second MMA fight this past Saturday From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Cheavens, Funny about your first BJJ experience. I know EXACTLY how you feel. About 12 years ago, I thought I'd give traditional ju-jitsu a whirl. One of the exercises was to sit back to back with knees bent and feet flat on the floor. Hands were by our side and flat on the floor. The instructor would yell hajime (start/begin) and we'd try to submit the opponent. Only rule was one knee must be on the ground at all times. It wasn't a "to the mat" type exercise but more for joint locks from the kneeling position. Took away a lot of the height & strength advantages that some may have but the new people (being yours truly) was still trying to muscle through holds and locks. Kinda funny looking back. In BJJ, I too found myself a bit more worn than others because I wasn't relying on technique enough. Same is true with the low belt in Taekwondo starting to spar. They come out throwing everything they got....for about 30-60 seconds. Then they can hardly keep their hands up as the more experienced person scores at will. :) Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:20:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] The Protector Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow! Has anyone else seen this movie? It was great! The final battle with the evil henchmen at the climax of the movie was dozens of non-stop, bone breaking, joint locks and throws. Awesome! http://www.theprotectormovie.com/ Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:44:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Samurai Latino Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: nothing new under the sun To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In 1974 as a student of one of Grand Master Cho's instructor, we refered to our style as Taekwondo, Korean Karate, and also, that our lineage was from the Jidokwan. We did the Kicho Hyungs and Pyang Ahn's Bassai to name a few, which are still taught today. Sincerely, Rafael Amill Choson Martial Arts sidtkd@aol.com wrote: I guess the rudiments of taekwondo existed in 1963 although I never heard the term taekwondo back then. I heard tae soo, tae bek as well as the multiple kwans. While I'm not claiming to know everything under the sun, I dare say that no one in 1964 in New York at least, was sporting the name taekwondo. Even S. Henry Cho didn't use tkd and he was the first. Sid _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest