Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:44:18 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #395 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Opening/running a school for profit full time (Master Mark Seidel) 2. Korean Traditional Cultural Center opens in Manhattan, NY (Bert Edens) 3. Fraud attempt at MA school (WTSDA Bruce) 4. Re: Fraud attempt at MA school (Jay O'Connor) 5. Re: Opening a New Dojang (Joseph Cheavens) 6. Re: Fraud attempt at MA school (michael tomlinson) 7. Re: Opening a New Dojang (John Chambers) 8. RE: Fraud Attempt (Young Forest) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Opening/running a school for profit full time Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:31:09 -0400 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As a former consultant to over 300 Martial Arts schools in US and Canada, I use this rule of thumb. Most school teachers (K-12) in most cities that are considers Masters (earned a masters degree in education) earn about $40-65,000 per year depending on their years in teaching. A Martial Arts Master with 7 years experience as a Master should earn no less than $55,000 per year without the slightest feeling of guilt. The average school has overhead of $50,000(rent phone and insurance) excluding salary of owner. If your combined overhead is $125,000 per year and you have 100 students you should be charging $104.00 per month to break even and cover all expenses including your own salary (pay yourself first). This does not include testing fees or private lessons, seminars, special classes. You can adjust the monthly payment by factoring in the above extra income or not. Profit is not a dirty word unless you are a not for profit education institution. (Another option) Don't buy into the fact that you have to derive your martial arts income from inside your Dojang. Many corporations and/or law enforcement will pay you for your expertise and pay well, but you have to Market those skills. Mark Master Mark Seidel Martial Arts /PE Program The Midtown Academy http://www.midtownacademy.org -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Gordon [mailto:tgordon@gordonmartialarts.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:47 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Opening/running a school A few quotes I received this morning from a man I consider pretty smart. I modified it to apply for us martial artists running a school. The worst thing a martial art school owner/instructor can do to its students is fail to survive. The second worst thing a martial art school owner/instructor can do to its students is fail to charge enough to serve the students well. One thing I've learned from the experts in my daytime career and then reading/hearing the same basic advice from those in the martial art world is that business is business. And in a service business, a potential customer/student has three things to consider. Price - Service - Location/Facility. The student gets to chose two. With the exception being a school owner using their is supplemental income to basically buy down the students rate. May make them feel good but it's a dumb business decision. Been there myself. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bert Edens" To: Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:24:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Traditional Cultural Center opens in Manhattan, NY Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Korea's first traditional music center opens in Manhattan Date: September 20, 2006 First permanent center for Korean traditional music outside the nation opened in Manhattan, New York last Friday on September 16. Korean Traditional Cultural Center (KTCC) which aspires to become the international hub of Korean performing arts made its first official debut in its new Seven Stars Theater the same day, celebrating the establishment of its permanent stage. Starting from this coming Saturday, the new center will provide free music performance every 2 p.m and 7 p.m. Free programs will include Samulnori (traditional quartet percussion), Pansori (narrative song), Flute, folks songs as well as traditional harp and zither-like plays like Gayageum and Geomungo. To further richen its contents the center also looks to invite Korean musicians at home, hold joint music performance with foreign musicians and experiment with fusion-style music. KTCC was initially founded in 2003 with a mission to promote Korean culture in the U.S. providing numerous stage performances and donating musical instruments and lesson instructions to middle and high schools in New York and New Jersey areas such as Hunter College High School and Ridgewood High School. The Center plans to extend that number to dozen high schools now that it has finally established a permanent theater on its own. The head of KTCC, Kwon Chil-seung won a Grandprix at KBS traditional Korean Music Contest in 1995 and is also a three-time winner of Korean President's Music Award. He took off to the States back in 2000 with an ambition to spread Korean culture abroad. “It's not just second generation Koreans that I'm interested in teaching our music. I'll put all my efforts to make Kuk-ak (Korean traditional music) a new icon in the States,” Kwon said adding that he's also considering forming a multinational Kuk-ak team in the long term. By next year the center also intends to provide free performance every once a day and activate other educational programs such as workshops, symposium and camp. For further information visit: http://www.yourktcc.org/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:52:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fraud attempt at MA school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a note that has been forwared to our Association schools. I thought I would pass it to the list to infrom all others to beware. Take care all, Bruce ******** About 2-3 weeks ago we were contacted via email about offering private lessons to someone's child. They said that their daughter had trained before and would be in our area for about 6 weeks and they wanted her to have some private lessons and asked us to send them a quote on what the cost for those lessons would be. We sent them a quote and they wrote back saying that they definitly wanted to do it. They then told us that they would be sending us payment for the lessons and what they wanted us to do was deduct what we charged and send the balance back to them. They send us two money orders for $950 each ($1900 total) and followed it with an e-mail asking us to deduct our cost and wire them the remainder of the money to a travel agent in the UK. I had seen something about fraud like this being committed (especially via ebay using money orders) so THE INSTRUCTOR went to the bank and had them check out the money orders before we did anything with them. They were fake, and basically what happens is that by the time the money order bounces or does not clear, you have already wired the money (most of the time they request Western Union). There is no way for you to trace the money or get it back. I also am not sure whether they have been contacting other karate schools or not. So I just wanted to give everyone a heads up. If you are in this situation, or have recieved any type of money order that you are not sure of you can call 1-800-ASK-USPS or go on their website at www.usps.com. They have a list of things that you can look at to see whether the money order is a fake (there is one in particular with the numbers across the top of the money order). Hopefully no one else has been contacted yet, or if they have they have not sent any money yet - I would hate to see anyone taken advantage of. PS. Here are the last two emails we recieved from them: "The payment for the lesson has being sent toyou and you will receive it tomorrow tuesday or wednesday, As soon as you receive it i want you to deduct your lesson and send the remaining fund to my travelling agent via western union Kindly get back to me" "Hello I have contacted my Traveling Agency, This is the Information in which you will use in sending the excess fund to my Travelling Agency by Western Union, So that Felicia and my client will be given the ticket for the trip to the lesson and my client will take care of his stay during the lesson,When you send the excess fund, Western union will give you MTCN NUMBER that contain (10 digit number) and you will provide a question and answer for the money also. SENDER NAME : SENDER TEL : MTCN NUMBER QUESTION : ANSWER : Go to any western union location near you and send the fund by Western Union Money Transfer You will need to send this information back to me so that i can forward it to my travelling agent as to get the travelling ticket and all necessary stay for the lesson. RECEIVER NAME : ADDRESS : MANCHESTER MII 2BX UK Below are the western union information I will need from you once the transfer has been done. 1.) Money transfer Control Number [MTCN] 2.) Exact Amount Sent After Deducting Charges from the Money. 3.) Senders complete information used(name and address) 4) Text question of the Money and the Answer. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 9:19:50 -0600 From: Jay O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Fraud attempt at MA school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a variation on a standard scam. I've heard it most in association with ebay where someone will overpay by check for an item and you send them back the difference by money order, etc...and then their check bounces. One way to protect yourself is always wait for funds to clear before offering anything back. Take care, Jay ---- WTSDA Bruce wrote: > This is a note that has been forwared to our Association schools. I thought I > would pass it to the list to infrom all others to beware. > > Take care all, > > Bruce > > ******** > > About 2-3 weeks ago we were contacted via email about offering private lessons > to someone's child. They said that their daughter had trained before and > would be in our area for about 6 weeks and they wanted her to have some > private lessons and asked us to send them a quote on what the cost for those > lessons would be. We sent them a quote and they wrote back saying that they > definitly wanted to do it. They then told us that they would be sending us > payment for the lessons and what they wanted us to do was deduct what we > charged and send the balance back to them. They send us two money orders for > $950 each ($1900 total) and followed it with an e-mail asking us to deduct our > cost and wire them the remainder of the money to a travel agent in the UK. I > had seen something about fraud like this being committed (especially via ebay > using money orders) so THE INSTRUCTOR went to the bank and had them check out > the money orders before we did anything with them. They were fake, and > basically what happens is that by the time the money order bounces or does not > clear, you have already wired the money (most of the time they request Western > Union). There is no way for you to trace the money or get it back. I also am > not sure whether they have been contacting other karate schools or not. So I > just wanted to give everyone a heads up. > > If you are in this situation, or have recieved any type of money order that > you are not sure of you can call 1-800-ASK-USPS or go on their website at > www.usps.com. They have a list of things that you can look at to see whether > the money order is a fake (there is one in particular with the numbers across > the top of the money order). > > Hopefully no one else has been contacted yet, or if they have they have not > sent any money yet - I would hate to see anyone taken advantage of. > > > PS. Here are the last two emails we recieved from them: > > "The payment for the lesson has being sent toyou and you will receive it > tomorrow tuesday or wednesday, As soon as you receive it i want you to deduct > your lesson and send the remaining fund to my travelling agent via western > union > Kindly get back to me" > > > "Hello > I have contacted my Traveling Agency, This is the Information in which you > will use in sending the excess fund to my Travelling Agency by Western Union, > So that Felicia and my client will be given the ticket for the trip to the > lesson and my > client will take care of his stay during the lesson,When you send the excess > fund, Western union will give you MTCN NUMBER that contain (10 digit number) > and you will provide a question and answer for the money also. > > SENDER NAME : > SENDER TEL : > MTCN NUMBER > QUESTION : > ANSWER : > > Go to any western union location near you and send the fund by Western Union > Money Transfer You will need to send this information back to me so that i can > forward it to my travelling agent as to get the travelling ticket and all > necessary stay for the lesson. > > RECEIVER NAME : > ADDRESS : > MANCHESTER > MII 2BX > UK > > Below are the western union information I will need from you once the transfer > has been done. > 1.) Money transfer Control Number [MTCN] > 2.) Exact Amount Sent After Deducting Charges from the Money. > 3.) Senders complete information used(name and address) > 4) Text question of the Money and the Answer. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Opening a New Dojang Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:45:10 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I actually like your idea with the condenced foam and stretched canvas better than my puzzle mat suggestion. It seems to me like the edges of the puzzle mats where they joing gives a bit more than the centers. It would be interesting to compare the two for cost. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Chambers" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Opening a New Dojang Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:56:49 -0400 Joseph: Years ago, I built such a floating floor using old tires and plywood. My floor was 25' By 40'. Once you lay out the exact mat measurement by placing the tires side by side to cover the space required, you then box it in with 2" by 12" wide boards, joined at the corners. This creates something similar to a big sand box like a kid would play in, with exception of replacing the sand with old car tires. A plywood tope to cover the tires, leaving a couple inches of space around all for sides, allows the plywood floor to float. Makes a great judo mat area, by adding a 2' condensed foam cover over the floor and then covered with a stretched canvas. will last forever and just enough spring to make falling a breeze. Good suggestion to use the joining mats for non-judo martial arts. John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Opening a New Dojang >What kind of flooring have you considered? One relatively >inexpensive >system that I know of that one of my seniors used was to float the >floor >on a bunch of old tires (i.e. wooden frame resting on tires and not >tied >into the wall). He used plain old plywood decking that he sanded >down and >shelacked with polyeurethene fiinish. Even being a wood floor, it >was >pretty easy to take falls on (as long as you fell correctly), as the >floor had a lot of give (the harder you fall the more it gives), and >had >a little bit of give when doing jumping or flying kicks, so it was >easier >on the knees than wood over concrete or even puzzle mats over >concrete. I >would think that using puzzle mats over such a floor would be pretty >much >ideal. > >Joe Cheavens >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Fraud attempt at MA school Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:56:26 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bottom line: I ain't cashin nothing for nobody....I'm way too cheap for any of this to work!! I recieved the same stuff last year...I ignored it...it's good you are showing people this stuff though.. Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Opening a New Dojang Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:27:26 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Joe: I have photos of the floating mat that I described to you. You can purchase the condensed foam in sheets or squares. The canvas cover would be your biggest expense, but as I said, will last for m,any years. If you plan to do any throwing techniques, this is the way you would want to go. Let me know by return email if you would like to have couple photos, and a diagram of how I built this floating mat. I probably have enough new foam squares to build a mat 30' by 30' in storage, that I would sell at a very fair price. John Chambers professorjohn@tampabay.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Opening a New Dojang >I actually like your idea with the condenced foam and stretched canvas > better than my puzzle mat suggestion. It seems to me like the edges of > the puzzle mats where they joing gives a bit more than the centers. It > would be interesting to compare the two for cost. > > Joe Cheavens > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "John Chambers" > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To: > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Opening a New Dojang > Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:56:49 -0400 > Joseph: > > Years ago, I built such a floating floor using old tires and plywood. > My floor was 25' By 40'. Once you lay out the exact mat measurement > by placing the tires side by side to cover the space required, you > then box it in with 2" by 12" wide boards, joined at the corners. > This creates something similar to a big sand box like a kid would > play in, with exception of replacing the sand with old car tires. > A plywood tope to cover the tires, leaving a couple inches of space > around all for sides, allows the plywood floor to float. > Makes a great judo mat area, by adding a 2' condensed foam cover over > the floor and then covered with a stretched canvas. > will last forever and just enough spring to make falling a breeze. > Good suggestion to use the joining mats for non-judo martial arts. > > John Chambers > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Cheavens" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Opening a New Dojang > > >What kind of flooring have you considered? One relatively > >inexpensive > >system that I know of that one of my seniors used was to float the > >floor > >on a bunch of old tires (i.e. wooden frame resting on tires and not > >tied > >into the wall). He used plain old plywood decking that he sanded > >down and > >shelacked with polyeurethene fiinish. Even being a wood floor, it > >was > >pretty easy to take falls on (as long as you fell correctly), as the > >floor had a lot of give (the harder you fall the more it gives), and > >had > >a little bit of give when doing jumping or flying kicks, so it was > >easier > >on the knees than wood over concrete or even puzzle mats over > >concrete. I > >would think that using puzzle mats over such a floor would be pretty > >much > >ideal. > > > >Joe Cheavens > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:46:06 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Fraud Attempt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >PS. Here are the last two emails we recieved from them: > >"The payment for the lesson has being sent toyou and you will receive it >tomorrow tuesday or wednesday, As soon as you receive it i want you to >deduct >your lesson and send the remaining fund to my travelling agent via western >union This is the classic overpayment scam. The same people running the advance-fee fraud (AKA the Nigerian Fraud, or 419 Fraud) do this one as well. They claim that the overpayment was an accountant's mistake typically. Here's what would happen: You would receive a cheque that appears legitimate in all ways. You would deposit it in your account, then send the Western Union money transfer for the difference. Soon, you would find out that the cheque was a fake and the bank would withdraw the amount from your account. Unfortunately, by this time, the scam artist would have already received his money - you are out for any amount you sent, as well as anything you spent out of the amount you received. Targeting martial arts schools is a newer variation - in the past it has been apartments for rent ("my son will be travelling to the US for college this year, and I need to secure living space for him...") or eBay purchases (where they get your merchandise as well as whatever money you send). Badger North www.youngforest.ca --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest