Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 02:59:30 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #416 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Changing forms (sidtkd@aol.com) 2. Re: Master Dan regarding changing forms (Christopher Spiller) 3. Re: Re: New Kukkiwon forms? (was Re: Which Korean...) (Christopher Spiller) 4. Re: Re: Re: New Kukkiwon forms? (was Re: Which Korean...) (Ray) 5. Re: Re: Master Dan regarding changing forms (Ray) 6. Re: From Professor John Chambers (Ray) 7. RE: Professor John Chambers ? Lineage of TKD & KTA. (Michael Uiterwijk) 8. Re: From Professor John Chambers (John Chambers) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:56:46 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Changing forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Palgwe, poomse.....ooooooooh my head us aching over the possibility of more changes. For my 2 cents, I always liked the Moo Duk Kwan forms. One more thought, I would hope there is more similarity to practical fighting if indeed changes are coming. Sid --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 18:08:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Dan regarding changing forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I > think changing or adding new forms would be a way to attract the ITF > into > the WTF, I'm not sure that coming up with a whole *new* set of patterns would be a way to attract ITF practitioners to the WTF. Adopting the Chang Hun tuls, maybe, but I'm not sure this would happen. The ITF faction under Chang Ung is in talks with the WTF but if there's a jettisoning of the General's patterns I don't foresee many non-DPRK members agreeing to a merger (although I could certainly be wrong). Would GM Rhee, Ki Ha agree to such a move? frankly it would make TKD stronger but opinions are like some > parts > of our body everybody has one. Do you mean unity between the ITF and WTF would make TKD stronger, or a new set of patterns? > Many of us are not happy with what happened to the USTU but you do the > best > you can with what you have. I can only hope that the WTF will never one > day > say all Dan certificates are null and void and every body has to be re > certified and pay new money to start all over again. Why would the Kukkiwon say *all* certificates are null and void? Certainly the ones they issued wouldn't be, would they? Or was the USTU issuing their own certificates? Pax, Chris Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, There's always laughter and good red wine. At least I've always found it so. Benedicamus Domino! -Hilaire Belloc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 18:18:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: New Kukkiwon forms? (was Re: Which Korean...) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >> Where's the information that the Kukkiwon is changing their forms coming > from? I do find it odd that they'd change them so soon after issuing a > DVD series to (finally) standardize the performance of poomse, but what > do I know?<< > There has been fairly open and active chatter on this topic directly > from the Kukkiwon for the last 7 or so years. Anyone in particular doing the chattering? I mean actual office holders at the Kukkiwon, people whose opinions would hold some credibility. > The Kukkiwon has published several books, videos, web media, and now > DVDs attempting to standardize the current set of poomsae since the > 1970s, so... So... what? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, Ray. If they're trying to standardize performance of the patterns they have now that doesn't argue for the development of a new pattern set. If anything it argues against such a move, I'd think (of course, I've been wrong about many things in the past :). Either way, whether the Kukkiwon changes patterns or not is no big deal to me (although I find such developments interesting, certainly) as I'm not Kukkiwon certified and don't plan on becoming such anytime in the future. Pax, Chris > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, There's always laughter and good red wine. At least I've always found it so. Benedicamus Domino! -Hilaire Belloc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: New Kukkiwon forms? (was Re: Which Korean...) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Anyone in particular doing the chattering? I mean actual office holders > at the Kukkiwon, people whose opinions would hold some credibility. Committee chairman positions usually/frequently change about every year. So yes, it came from at least one former committee chair, and then other comments coming second hand. > > The Kukkiwon has published several books, videos, web media, and now > > > DVDs attempting to standardize the current set of poomsae since the > > > 1970s, so... > > So... what? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, Ray. My comment was in response to: "I do find it odd that they'd change them so soon after issuing a DVD series to (finally) standardize the performance of poomse,...". Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Dan regarding changing forms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... I can only hope that the WTF will never one day > > say all Dan certificates are null and void and every body has to be re > > certified and pay new money to start all over again. > > Why would the Kukkiwon say *all* certificates are null and void? > Certainly the ones they issued wouldn't be, would they? Right. I don't think that makes any sense either. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] From Professor John Chambers To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I just cannot understand how so many that not only teach TKD, but claim to be > Masters/Grand Masters of the art, DO NOT KNOW their own lineage or history. But how is knowing the list of those that once served as President of the KTA knowing your lineage? e.g. the current head of the KTA is simply the head of the South Korean NGB to the WTF. Knowing his name is perhaps of interest to those of us that appreciate trivia or history, but it has little to nothing to do with the TKD lineage of someone outside Korea. IMHO Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:31:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Uiterwijk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Professor John Chambers ? Lineage of TKD & KTA. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net How are you sir, I don't type much, I only have one finger and takes to long. :) That is a tough question, due to the fact that there were five major Kwans and god knows how many pop-ups. I do have a brief blog on the history of TKD and the Moo Duk Kwan. You can check it on www.myspace.com/whitetigertkd. My daughter set up the site for me. I am looking to add on more blogs, and think that would be a fine addition. I can say that, it is unfortunite that many cannot agree to the exact history, WTF, ITF and so on. I tend to obsorb all I can, then weed out any trivial ? information.I do believe, all TKD students should learn or try to learn every aspect of their martial art. All information is to the best of my knowledge, as it was taught to me. I try to pay attention. sincerely, Michael Uiterwijk - 5th. Dan Korea Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan Association, 5th. Dan World Ho Kwon Do Federation, 4th. Dan World Taekwondo Federation, and a Hapkido student. P.S - There is just, way to many organizations out there. I had to drop-out of a few, even the respected ITF is split, which I think is a shame. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "John Chambers" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] From Professor John Chambers Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:39:52 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray: I guess I should have worded that a little different, but it is part of the TKD history and should be maintained by those teaching TKD in my opinion. John Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" To: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] From Professor John Chambers >> I just cannot understand how so many that not only teach TKD, but claim >> to be >> Masters/Grand Masters of the art, DO NOT KNOW their own lineage or >> history. > > But how is knowing the list of those that once served as President of the > KTA > knowing your lineage? > > e.g. the current head of the KTA is simply the head of the South Korean > NGB > to the WTF. Knowing his name is perhaps of interest to those of us that > appreciate trivia or history, but it has little to nothing to do with the > TKD lineage of someone outside Korea. IMHO > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest