Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 02:58:27 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #474 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Self-Training: Comment for Joel McTague's post (Frank Clay) 2. 3rd Dan Grading ? (Don Kirsch) 3. Pan Am TKD wraps up (The_Dojang) 4. Re: Third Dan Grading (Oludipe O. Tolulope) 5. Re: 3rd Dan Grading (Oludipe O. Tolulope) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:40:25 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Self-Training: Comment for Joel McTague's post Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with Joel. If you look at a test as a testing of the spirit, then there is no reason why one can't continue on one's own. Essentially, the martial arts are a solitary path, which I know if not a popular thought in KMA. But let's face it that is what it is. No instructor or master can make you into something that you are not. As a teacher, it is my responsibility to give the tools that the student needs and to mentor them but they must do the work. If they are doing the work, then it will be apparent when they step on the mat. I'm not advocating giving a promotion test to someone who doesn't come to class. Actually, I think that system is a tad commercial and abused. I think that you should keep an open mind and see what the student who has been training alone has mastered and move forward from there. I think that the mentor/student role is the classical martial arts paradigm and is likely closest to our true traditions. When I studied Taijiquan, we had no rank but it was still clear who the teacher was, who your Xihing were and where you fit in. Thoughts? Frank --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:28:06 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] 3rd Dan Grading ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Joel, Thanks for your respectful reply to my post about not testing for 3rd Dan unless one has been in the dojang and train continually but we are just going to have to disagree on this one. Maybe I'm not only "old school" but I also attended the "old School". I have a student right now who received his 1st Dan in HapKiDo 22 years ago. My student has not been training in a dojang on a continual basis for a number of years. He and I have an agreement and mutual understanding after training with me for at least one full year we'll talk about testing for 2nd Dan. This student received his training in HapKiDo from my instructor 22 years ago. With regard to technique and knowledge his level of HapKiDo is well above 1st Dan. This just how I was taught to do things and it's the way I continue to do things. I guess to each his own. Regards, Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:15:01 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pan Am TKD wraps up Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net U.S. Wraps Up Pan American Championships With Three More Medals November 26, 2006 The U.S. team finished with three more medals on Sunday at the Pan American Taekwondo Championships in Buenos Aires, Argentina, bringing their final total for the tournament to 11 medals (two golds, four silver and five bronze). Stephen Lambdin (Colleyville, Texas) won silver in the men's heavyweight division, posting wins over Mexico's Salvador Perea (3-2) and Venezuela's Jose Chacoa (by knockout), before losing in the finals to Brazil's Leonardo Santos (0-(-1)). In men's middleweight action, Tony Graf (Miami, Fla.) won a bronze medal after he posted victories over Colombia's Juan Alberto Rojas (8-1) and the Dominican Republic's Richard Alcantara (5-3), then lost an overtime match in the semifinals to Argentina's Fernando Gonzalez (8-8, 1-0). Lauren Cahoon (Jacksonville, Fla.) also captured bronze in the women's heavyweight division. She defeated Mexico's Azulallil Madrigal (8-6) to reach the semifinals where she lost a 3-2 decision to Puerto Rico's Ineabelle Diaz. In other action on Sunday, Christina Park (New York, N.Y.) lost her opening match to Venezuela's Daniza Laso, 11-6. Other medalists for the U.S. during the four-day event were gold medalists Eleni Koutsilianos (Astoria, N.Y.) in the women's bantamweight and Simona Hradil (Los Angeles, Calif.) in the women's welterweight; silver medalists Adriel Gray (Liberty, Ind.) in the women's featherweight, Rudford Hamon (Miami, Fla.) in the men's welterweight and Nia Abdallah (Houston, Texas) in the women's lightweight; and bronze medalists Simone DeVito (Cortlandt Manor, N.Y.) in the women's flyweight, Luis Reyes (Van Nuys, Calif.) in the men's finweight and Tim Thackrey (Sherman Oaks, Calif.) in the men's flyweight. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:34:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Oludipe O. Tolulope" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Third Dan Grading Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes Gordon, I'm Nigerian & like you probably guessed from from the name, Yoruba. It's nice to know that that there are still instructors who care for the personal life of their students rather than most I've met who couldn't be bothered if the student materialised from the moon so long as he/she is faithful to the fees! I'm 31, single, competed in two Nigeria University Games, one Nigeria Sports Festival, attended a few seminars, once invited to give a talk on "The Importance of Basics in TaeKwonDo", was Head Instructor for 2yrs while at school and same for my year of National Youth Service. These some of what TKD means to me. Work is my reason (or excuse if you prefer) for not having the time for TKD in recent times but now, because of a change of jobs, I have more time for me. Yes I would like to start a Dojang of my own sometime soon but it's not the reason for the Grading. My reason for the upward movement is for personal fulfillment. It's about the same as a 60yr old who wants to get a 1st Degree from university- not so much as to compete with coleagues but for self satisfaction; "I can do it". This is what 3rd Dan means to me. And finally, wether I stop/continue TKD, my heart will always be with the Matial Arts. Hope these answers your questions. -------------------------------- From: "Gordon" To: Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:17:28 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Third Dan Grading Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Oludipe O. Tolulope, Cool name. Are you from Nigeria? I assume that you are 2nd Dan now and have been for the last 3 years. Is this the same school you attended to get to 2nd Dan? Have you kept in touch with your instructor(s)? If you hadn't been in my dojang for the past 3 years, I would want to know where your mind was too. We would be sitting in my office talking about where you have been, what was going on in your life now and what your goals are for the future. Is it just to be 3rd Dan or is there something more? I would want to meet your family and your spouse or close friends. I would invite you to dinner or to stay late at the dojang for some higher rank discussions regarding responsibility for ones actions and the obligation to set the right example for your juniors. A short paper on "Sports and the Martial Arts" would be less than adequate for me. I would want, IN YOUR WORDS, your ambitions for the near and long term future. I would want to know where your heart is. Do you want to be a teacher? Do you want to open a school on your own or do you want my help? I would ask for a paper on "What Martial Arts Means to Me" or "What 3rd Dan Means to Me". It would be required before permission to test for 3rd Dan was granted. You said: "Even if I break a leg at it.", so I understand that you WANT it. I wish you well in your quest for higher rank. Bows, Gordon Okerstrom ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:11:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Oludipe O. Tolulope" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 3rd Dan Grading Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the Seach Engine Bruse, It's been cool so far and as Jye has warned, I'll try be careful to sieve my findings! Don, I couldn't agree with you more. Years in a grade doesn't necessarily qualify you for the next level but the training put in DURING those years. But like Joel, I do remind myself on how to sweat though not as adequatly as if I were in a Dojang. Thank you all for your contributions thus far. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest