Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 02:58:26 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #488 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Not feeling right...confused (Jye nigma) 2. Not feeling right...confused (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 3. Fraud (kwan jang) 4. RE: Not feeling right...confused (michael tomlinson) 5. RE: Fraud (Joseph Cheavens) 6. RE: Not feeling right...confused (MasterPerry@nptatkd.com) 7. More gold for Korea (The_Dojang) 8. re: Not feeling right...confused (Joel McTague) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:49:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...don't make that 'grandmaster' come get you...lol Jye michael tomlinson wrote: and from the photos on the website Jye....uhh...a little lacking in the basic fundamentals of joint locking...but hey what do I know.... Michael Tomlinson >From: Jye nigma >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused >Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 08:31:27 -0800 (PST) > >I must have missed the part where he mentioned being an assistant >instructor. Well I look at it like this. If your gut is telling you >something is up.....then something is up. I'd feel funny too, but only if >they were trying to pass it off as an ancient KMA. Then I'd really have >questions. But a word to the wise you should always try to know what it is >your getting yourself into. but it sounds like a hybrid style to me. > > jye > > >Rick Clark wrote: > Hi Steve, > >You say you are 36 and have been in the martial arts since age 15. You >are an "assistant instructor" and yet you know nothing about the system >and style you teach? Your instructor says you will get the information >you ask through him and his teaching? Your questions are legitimate, and >to be an assistant instructor and know nothing about the system you >teach is to say the least a bit "disconcerting". > >Rick Clark >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > >--------------------------------- >Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday cash from MSN today! http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 14:45:07 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you have been training twenty years, I hope you have looked around by now at other styles. If you haven't, you should. There's a lot out there and even if you stay with your system, it will become stronger by looking at others. As far as the name of your style, it reminds me of Jay Gluck's "Zen Combat" book from the 1960s. I can't find anything else on the style or on GM Lee. Since no-one else seems to have heard of it here, it is probably a small local organization, probably of recent vintage. Let us know if you find out more. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "kwan jang" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:47:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fraud Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings everyone: The following link http://www.nkmaf.com/membership.htm takes you to a fraudulent website that blatantly uses copied certificates as well as my good name (with a slight modification). I am sure that this person/persons use more than just my good name to pad their pocketbooks, and I have noted in my research that Master Ian Cyrus 's association name also comes up. As you visit the website, you will see a geup level certificate they sell that actually has my signature on it. Incidentally, they are charging more than I am lol. They also have copied my Dahn level certificates, although I am sure they are not the embossed type which cost a lot of money to do, and I have the original plates. The website almost uses word for word what I have in my own website, and the contact actually took an unsuspecting applicant to MY Yahoo email address and then forwarded it to one of their own. Yahoo fixed that, but there does not seem to be a way to fix the other problems. The contact name you end up with, after a run around designed to confuse you, is Shane Comely out of South Africa, and I am sure this person is the same who controls the fake website. He uses a pyramid scheme where he claims that the "GM" has territorial commanders who "take care" of new applicants who wish to join the organization. The trail leads to Germany, South Africa, and the finally the US. Mr. Comely also has his own website on an art called In Nei Moo Duk Kwan he apparently "founded" himself. I have notified RCMP (Canadian Feds) who work closely with the FBI on these matters, and they are investigating at this time; however, IMHO it seems more efficient to just let people know, and the DD may prevent some poor sucker pay more than he needs for a fraudulent certificate. Not quite as sad as the schemer who used the late GM Wolmershauser's certificates on E-Bay, but a sad case of martial arts gone bad just the same. Seems to me these folks miss the whole point of martial arts for a few bucks. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 19:50:06 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm trying to keep my foot in my mouth...but sometimes.....I just go crazy......Michael Tomlinson.... >From: Jye nigma >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused >Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:49:56 -0800 (PST) > >lol...don't make that 'grandmaster' come get you...lol > > Jye > > >michael tomlinson wrote: > and from the photos on the website Jye....uhh...a little lacking in the >basic fundamentals of joint locking...but hey what do I know.... > >Michael Tomlinson > > > >From: Jye nigma > >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused > >Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 08:31:27 -0800 (PST) > > > >I must have missed the part where he mentioned being an assistant > >instructor. Well I look at it like this. If your gut is telling you > >something is up.....then something is up. I'd feel funny too, but only if > >they were trying to pass it off as an ancient KMA. Then I'd really have > >questions. But a word to the wise you should always try to know what it >is > >your getting yourself into. but it sounds like a hybrid style to me. > > > > jye > > > > > >Rick Clark wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > > >You say you are 36 and have been in the martial arts since age 15. You > >are an "assistant instructor" and yet you know nothing about the system > >and style you teach? Your instructor says you will get the information > >you ask through him and his teaching? Your questions are legitimate, and > >to be an assistant instructor and know nothing about the system you > >teach is to say the least a bit "disconcerting". > > > >Rick Clark > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > >_________________________________________________________________ >Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday >cash from MSN today! >http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > >--------------------------------- >Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real >people who know. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fraud Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:15:59 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Do you mind if I post this on Bullshido and Budoseek? Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kwan jang" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Fraud Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:47:58 -0500 Greetings everyone: The following link http://www.nkmaf.com/membership.htm takes you to a fraudulent website that blatantly uses copied certificates as well as my good name (with a slight modification). I am sure that this person/persons use more than just my good name to pad their pocketbooks, and I have noted in my research that Master Ian Cyrus 's association name also comes up. As you visit the website, you will see a geup level certificate they sell that actually has my signature on it. Incidentally, they are charging more than I am lol. They also have copied my Dahn level certificates, although I am sure they are not the embossed type which cost a lot of money to do, and I have the original plates. The website almost uses word for word what I have in my own website, and the contact actually took an unsuspecting applicant to MY Yahoo email address and then forwarded it to one of their own. Yahoo fixed that, but there does not seem to be a way to fix the other problems. The contact name you end up with, after a run around designed to confuse you, is Shane Comely out of South Africa, and I am sure this person is the same who controls the fake website. He uses a pyramid scheme where he claims that the "GM" has territorial commanders who "take care" of new applicants who wish to join the organization. The trail leads to Germany, South Africa, and the finally the US. Mr. Comely also has his own website on an art called In Nei Moo Duk Kwan he apparently "founded" himself. I have notified RCMP (Canadian Feds) who work closely with the FBI on these matters, and they are investigating at this time; however, IMHO it seems more efficient to just let people know, and the DD may prevent some poor sucker pay more than he needs for a fraudulent certificate. Not quite as sad as the schemer who used the late GM Wolmershauser's certificates on E-Bay, but a sad case of martial arts gone bad just the same. Seems to me these folks miss the whole point of martial arts for a few bucks. Rudy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday cash from MSN today! --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:24:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused From: MasterPerry@nptatkd.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Rick, You are correct as far as the Chungdokwan is concerned and their form style, I was only referencing due to the break off of General Choi to start the ohdokwan and the period of time the chungdokwan attempted Chon Hon patterns while he was still a member. It is good to see there are still Taekwondo Stylist that do there homework PILSUNG Dan> Hi Dan, > >>From: MasterPerry@nptatkd.com [mailto:MasterPerry@nptatkd.com] > >>> have been told it is a combination of Moo Duk Kwan, Five Family Fist > Gung Fu and So Bok. > >>>I bought the book by Mr. Keith D. Yates The Complete Book of Taekwon > Do Forms. I have found that many of the forms so far are the >>same as I've been learning with just little differences in moves. They > even have the same meaning associated with the name of the poom se. One > of the >>> inconsistencies is that the first form I learned, Chon Ji > >>I would have to agree that if the forms are as you describe, you are > actually involved in Chungdokwan or ohdokwan Taekwondo. This is the ITF > form system known as Chon-Hon (Blue Cottage) and the original set put > out by General Choi. > > > I would agree that if your forms started with Chon-Ji you are probably > from a branch of the ITF (Gen. Choi Hong Hi - O Do Kwan). But from my > knowledge Chung Do Kwan never used this set of forms. The "old" Chung > Do Kwan used the Pyung-Ahn series, and when I was in Korea back in 69-70 > the Chung Do Kwan gym I worked out in taught the series with Koryo and > Kumgan. > > If the style that Steve describes is indeed from Moo Duk Kwan I would > have expected that they would have used the Pyung-Ahn set of forms. > > Rick Clark > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 16:11:43 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] More gold for Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net S. Korea has gold rush in taekwondo DOHA, Dec. 8 (Yonhap) -- South Korea collected three gold medals in its national sport of taekwondo in the Asian Games Friday as it gains on Japan in the medal tally. Yoo Young-dae, the 2006 Asian championship winner, beat Thailand's Tewawetchapong Nattapong on points to clinch the men's flyweight division at the Qatar Sports Club Indoor Hall. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Joel McTague" To: Subject: re: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:03:17 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have to say that I'm down in the Miami area, and although I don't know of every school in South Florida, I haven't heard of a Moo Chon Ji Kwan school nor is one listed in the phone book. Also, a quick Google search of some of the names in Sniffin's bio comes up very short. Although it's quite possible that his instructors names never made it to the internet, some of the styles he learned such as the Art of Five Family Fist never made it either. And isn't Kung Joong Moo Sool Korean for Royal Palace Martial Arts anyway? JOEL MC TAGUE --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest