Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 09:02:01 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #489 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Scholarships (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 2. RE: Not feeling right...confused (steven riggs) 3. Rick Clark on "not feeling right".... (George Peters) 4. Jye on "ancient KMA" (George Peters) 5. not feeling right (Mike Donahoo) 6. RE: Not feeling right...confused (Rick Clark) 7. Re: Not feeling right...confused (Ray) 8. SHIN Suk Ki (The_Dojang) 9. not recognized by the .. Assoc. (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 10. Re: Scholarships (Ray) 11. Re: not recognized by the .. Assoc. (Ray) 12. Re: Jye on "ancient KMA" (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 23:37:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Scholarships Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a 4th Gup student who is a Jr. in High School. He makes excellent grades and has his heart set on becoming either a doctor or working in sports medicine upon completion of college. He is a very dedicated and hard working student who enjoys the martial arts immensely. I was wondering if anyone knew of any scholarships that may be available for him to apply for through Tae Kwon Do, or martial arts in general. I would appreciate any suggestions that anyone may provide so that I may pass it on to him. Thank you. James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy Lewisburg, WV --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:49:18 -0800 (PST) From: steven riggs Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I began my Tang Soo Do training in 1973 the accepted progression to chodan was the 3 Kicho forms, 5 pyang forms and Bassai or Passai Dai. At that time I was never told there was a shorter Bassai form. I was taught Naianchi Chodan but not expected to do it until preparing for 2nd dan. For some reason about the time I was a 4th gup our Grandmaster (Francisco Conde) drove up from Baltimore and introduced us to Chon Ji. We were only told it was a Tae Kwon Do form but nothing about a certain style or faction within TKD of which I knew nothing about in those days. We (the advanced students) just assumed he thought tossing it in for something different in a training routine would be a good thing. Later it was dropped. Steven Rick Clark wrote: Hi Dan, >From: MasterPerry@nptatkd.com [mailto:MasterPerry@nptatkd.com] >> have been told it is a combination of Moo Duk Kwan, Five Family Fist Gung Fu and So Bok. >>I bought the book by Mr. Keith D. Yates The Complete Book of Taekwon Do Forms. I have found that many of the forms so far are the >same as I've been learning with just little differences in moves. They even have the same meaning associated with the name of the poom se. One of the >> inconsistencies is that the first form I learned, Chon Ji >I would have to agree that if the forms are as you describe, you are actually involved in Chungdokwan or ohdokwan Taekwondo. This is the ITF form system known as Chon-Hon (Blue Cottage) and the original set put out by General Choi. I would agree that if your forms started with Chon-Ji you are probably from a branch of the ITF (Gen. Choi Hong Hi - O Do Kwan). But from my knowledge Chung Do Kwan never used this set of forms. The "old" Chung Do Kwan used the Pyung-Ahn series, and when I was in Korea back in 69-70 the Chung Do Kwan gym I worked out in taught the series with Koryo and Kumgan. If the style that Steve describes is indeed from Moo Duk Kwan I would have expected that they would have used the Pyung-Ahn set of forms. Rick Clark _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Sensei Steven Riggs Senior Instructor American Defensive Arts stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 00:09:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Rick Clark on "not feeling right".... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, I can well understand how Steve could feel this way, I bounced around a lot years back before I started in TSD at a school with a traditional background. Partially because I did not want to go to a traditional system as I was not mature enough to see the value of this and the apparent lack of schools that were "legit" in my area long ago. So if the young man did not know the difference in the beginning, it is easy to me to see why he would still not know now. There are schools in my area now where the instructor tells the students that they a learning "martial art X" and what they are really learning is a hodgepoge of many things from many places. I won't say whether it is or is not effective, what matters is that the students think they are learning "martial art X" and are happy where they are, even though they do not know the difference. Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 00:17:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jye on "ancient KMA" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, Now, you full well that all "ancient KMA" and those little known were preserved for posterity by an ancient master at least three thousand years ago who lived like a hermit in a cave and passed this art form down to a decsendant who has only recently chosen to divulge these truths to the masses. :) Respectfully, George who is WITH the KMA program! lol _________________________________________________________________ Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 22:12:29 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] not feeling right Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net mr. eek3/steve, if you do not feel you are getting straight answers/honest answers then that should be a big tip off. your teacher/master should be someone you look up to, can talk to, trust, and give you guidance when needed. if you are trading your feelings of trust and inspiration for doubt and confusion i personally would find a new school. i could recommend several in the omaha area. i am just up the road in sioux city, iowa. on a second note for you and for everyone else on the list i have some bad news. Grandmaster Suk Ki Shin passed away last friday at 3:15am. he was 66 years old and passed away from cancer. he was an AMAZING martial artist, words could not describe his physical talents. his talents were surpassed only by his wisdom, kindness, and willingness to help and teach everyone. he will be missed. he helped my korean master get to this country as well as a few others. he was a professor of martial arts in korea at young-in university, 52 years of martial arts experience, 9th dan taekwondo, 8th dan judo, 8th dan hapkido, and a 4th dan kumdo. may he rest in peace. in devotion to the arts, mike donahoo ____________________________________________________________________________________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 08:15:58 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Dan, >From: MasterPerry@nptatkd.com [mailto:MasterPerry@nptatkd.com] >Hi Rick, > >You are correct as far as the Chungdokwan is concerned and >their form style, I was only referencing due to the break off >of General Choi to start the ohdokwan and the period of time >the chungdokwan attempted Chon Hon patterns while he was still >a member. As far as I know Gen. Choi was not really a "member" of Chung Do Kwan. I am not aware of any time that Chung Do Kwan used the O Do Kwan forms, perhaps they did but it would NOT make sense for one Kwan to use the forms of another Kwan. I know that Don Duk Son gave him an honorary black belt in Chung Do Kwan and that at a later date he revoked the rank. But that would have been at a time that Korea was a military dictatorship and he was a General. I should guess that if a General in a military dictatorship asks for anything they got it rather quickly. Choi did pull a lot of Chung Do Kwan guys into O Do Kwan once the were in the Korean Army, I was told it was more or less forced membership. Something along the lines of "ok you are now in the Army private, if you join O Do Kwan you will be promoted to Sergeant". "What would you like to do?" From personal experience in 1969-70 the Korean military life was rough. I can't imagine the conditions that they would have had 15 or 20 years before. Being a Sergeant would have been a BIG step up the food chain and would have made life in the Army a LOT better for an individual. So I can't imagine anyone would say "nope I'll stay Chung Do Kwan and not join O Do Kwan." >From interaction with Korean instructors and Son Duk Son back in the 60's I got the distinct impression that Son had little use for Choi. > >It is good to see there are still Taekwondo Stylist that do >there homework Its not a matter of homework for me - I was alive and practicing martial arts during this time and asked more questions of Korean instructors than they wanted to answer :-) Rick Clark > >PILSUNG > >Dan --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 07:52:57 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > As far as I know Gen. Choi was not really a "member" of Chung Do Kwan. Perhaps in the sense that the Oh Do Kwan was a sub kwan, or annex kwan, of the Chung Do Kwan. >From the Modern History of Taekwondo: "From Inchon, which became the center of the Chung Do Kwan's annex Kwans, more schools were opened. They were: (1) Kang Suh Chong's Kuk Mu Kwan, (2) Lee Yong Woo's Jung Do Kwan in Suh Dae Moon Ku, (3) Ko Jae Chun's Chung Ryong Kwan in Kwang Ju and (4) Choi Hong Hi's Oh Do Kwan. The Oh Do Kwan especially had active Chung Do Kwan members who were in the military after the Korean War." Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 07:57:03 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] SHIN Suk Ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net UNO loses instructor, legend University of Nebraska of Omaha Robert Dudash December 08, 2006 Most of the students here at UNO at some point in there academic careers, and the faculty as well, have at some point been in the HPER building. The majority of people either go there to run on the treadmill, play a game of basketball with their friends, or lift some weights, but how many people are able to say that their lives where changed in that building, in room 110 to be more specific? What is so special about room 110? Nothing, in and of itself, but it was who was in that room, Grand Master Suk Ki Shin. The accomplishments of Grand Master Shin span five decades, two continents, and people, not just martial artists all over the world, know of him and respect him. Throughout his career in martial arts, Grand Master Shin held positions instructing here at UNO, Creighton University, Yong In University in South Korea, and had his own school, Shin's Academy here in Omaha for over 30 years. He obtained the ranks of 9th Dan (degree) Taekwondo, 8th Dan Hapkido, 8th Dan Judo, and 4th Dan in Kumdo (the traditional stick fighting art of Korea). Some other accomplishments include; being the 1st All Asian Games Champion, the 1966 Korean Champion, the coach of the 1975 World University Taekwondo Team, and was a bodyguard for President Chung Hee Park of South Korea. Grand Master Shin trained thousands of students throughout his life; a number of nearly 10,000 has been suggested. The black belts that he has trained have opened schools all over America, and some have even been motivated to move overseas to Korea and other countries in pursuit of a greater wisdom of the way we live and practice our arts. Simply knowing Grand Master Shin was an experience. His love for life was infectious, and so was his laugh that could be heard when he was not even in sight. My personal experience is difficult to put into words, and I am sure that many who knew him feel the same way. He gave so many people direction and goals to strive for, and made the task of living seem so incredibly easy, you wanted live the same way. Grand Master Shin will be missed by people from Omaha to South Korea, and he will never be forgotten. Through his teachings and his ability to make one strive to be a better person and to better their community, Grand Master Shin will never die, and will forever be in the hearts of thousands. Thank you for everything Sir. We will miss you terribly. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:00:35 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] not recognized by the .. Assoc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... This is > not to say they are not good Martial artist, or good teachers, Just that > they are not recognizised by the Original Moo Duk Kwan founder or his > organization. >That is no doubt the case. The reverse is also true... that those with >SBD MDK rank are not recognized by the Korea TKD MDK Assoc. My question is : if you are in a good MA school ( good program taught by very experience and knowledgeable instructors), learning good stuff and becoming a good Martial artist or are one, what does one gain, if anything , from belong to one of these organization? John --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Scholarships To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:11:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have a 4th Gup student who is a Jr. in High School. He makes excellent > grades and has his heart set on becoming either a doctor or working in > sports medicine upon completion of college. He is a very dedicated and > hard working student who enjoys the martial arts immensely. > I was wondering if anyone knew of any scholarships that may be available > for him to apply for through Tae Kwon Do, or martial arts in general. I > would appreciate any suggestions that anyone may provide so that I may > pass it on to him. The WTF has scholarships available, but they are probably limited to dan ranked elite competitors. You might check with USA Taekwondo (formerly USTU) as they should have info on various scholarships available. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] not recognized by the .. Assoc. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:18:46 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > My question is : if you are in a good MA school ( good program taught by > very experience and knowledgeable instructors), learning good stuff and becoming > a good Martial artist or are one, what does one gain, if anything , from > belong to one of these organization? I'd say it is likely not a matter of great interest to most students. But for an instructor it offers support, standardization, opportunity to grow in rank and knowledge, etc. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 09:49:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Jye on "ancient KMA" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...I'm sure there might be or might have been some authentic arts native to korea, or some with influence from china,japan,mongols, etc. but I really believe that when the koreans were controlled by the japanese that those things were lost. if this is the case then how sad. BUT let us learn from the Koreans in that we should make sure documenting things are a priority. video tape, record, write, etc. because it's also a nice thing to have for family for when you pass away. Jye George Peters wrote: Good Sir, Now, you full well that all "ancient KMA" and those little known were preserved for posterity by an ancient master at least three thousand years ago who lived like a hermit in a cave and passed this art form down to a decsendant who has only recently chosen to divulge these truths to the masses. :) Respectfully, George who is WITH the KMA program! lol _________________________________________________________________ Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest