Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 02:58:26 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #490 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SOME_BREAKTHROUGH autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Fraud (Ray) 2. Fraud (kwan jang) 3. RE: Not feeling right...confused (Jye nigma) 4. RE: Scholarships (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 5. Taekwondo Unification (The_Dojang) 6. RE: Not feeling right...confused (Rick Clark) 7. Jared Schneider Wins (The_Dojang) 8. Re: Not feeling right...confused (Ray) 9. Re: Pyung-Ahn (Dr. Daryl Covington) 10. RE: Chung Do Kwan and O Do Kwan (Rick Clark) 11. Re: Chung Do Kwan and O Do Kwan (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Fraud To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 10:10:37 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The following link http://www.nkmaf.com/membership.htm takes you to a > fraudulent website that blatantly uses copied certificates as well as my > good name (with a slight modification). Strange... And they even use an email addr of RTimberman. Ray "JR Jest" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "kwan jang" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 13:38:29 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fraud Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Joseph writes: "Do you mind if I post this on Bullshido and Budoseek?" Hello Joseph. I do not mind at all, in fact it will help. I used to do both Budoseek and Martial talk myself, but there was just too much fighting going on and I got sick of the bickering. Thanks for passing on the info. Warmest personal regards, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 10:40:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net wanna get more confused....read this "TRUE" history of korean martial arts.....LMAO http://www.ohtc.com/Traditionalmartialarts/Origin_of_OHTC%20martial_arts.htm Jye --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 17:18:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Scholarships Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The WTF has scholarships available, but they are probably limited to dan ranked elite competitors. You might check with USA Taekwondo (formerly USTU) as they should have info on various scholarships available. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com Thanks Ray. I will look at the USTU and see what's up. I appreciate any other advice as well. James Morgan GTKDA Lewisburg, WV --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 17:29:45 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo Unification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekwondo Unification Could Pace Way for North Korea DOHA, Qatar International Herald Tribune Dec. 7, 2006 The chasm in international taekwondo is closer to being bridged after meetings in Doha between the Seoul-based World Taekwondo Federation, which is recognized by the International Olympic Committee, and the North Korean-backed, Vienna-based International Taekwondo Federation, which is not. International Taekwondo Federation (ITF) athletes could be allowed to compete in international events next year if the unification process maintains the pace generated by an agreement between rival world bodies during the ongoing Asian Games. As it stands, because North Korea's national association is not affiliated with the WTF, it cannot enter athletes in international taekwondo events. Despite each organization still claiming to be the rightful representatives for the traditional Korean martial art, both have agreed to "draw a roadmap for unification," the World Taekwondo Federation's (WTF) secretary-general Moon Dong-hoo said. "The heads of the two federations agreed to establish a coordination committee to discuss integration matters," Moon told The Associated Press. He said it was agreed that the coordination panel will discuss the integration of technical and administrative aspects at the same time, something that has been the sticking point in talks that have stalled for decades. The WTF wanted to resolve technical issues first, while the ITF wanted to settle administrative matters at the outset. "The major breakthrough is that we've both agreed to talk and discuss all matters simultaneously," Moon told The AP. "This small step could lead to the unification, and that won't be a small matter." North Korean and South Korean Olympic officials met in Doha last week to revive talks on fielding a full, unified team at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The only major dispute remaining for that to be achieved is to resolve how the team should be selected and comprised. Even if that were to succeed, the rival taekwondo federations would have to come to an agreement for North Korean taekwondo athletes to be included on the unified team. The subject of integration between the two taekwondo federations dates back to 1982, when the two sides first met in Vancouver, Canada. It was two years after the IOC recognized the WTF when the sport was pushing for a place on the Olympic program. In 2003, the two federations announced an agreement on integration matters during the World University Games in the South Korean city of Daegu, but it failed to produce results. The unification talks resumed in June last year, when IOC president Jacques Rogge held a meeting between the heads of the two groups in Lausanne. Three months later, Rogge again coordinated a meeting between these two officials. "We all want the matter to be resolved soonest," Moon said. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:35:10 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, >From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] >> As far as I know Gen. Choi was not really a "member" of >Chung Do Kwan. > >Perhaps in the sense that the Oh Do Kwan was a sub kwan, or >annex kwan, of the Chung Do Kwan. > > >From the Modern History of Taekwondo: > >"From Inchon, which became the center of the Chung Do Kwan's >annex Kwans, more schools were opened. They were: (1) Kang Suh >Chong's Kuk Mu Kwan, (2) Lee Yong Woo's Jung Do Kwan in Suh >Dae Moon Ku, (3) Ko Jae Chun's Chung Ryong Kwan in Kwang Ju >and (4) Choi Hong Hi's Oh Do Kwan. The Oh Do Kwan especially >had active Chung Do Kwan members who were in the military >after the Korean War." This must be the members of the military that were "co-opted" by Choi. Like I said I think it was a matter of Choi wanting quality instructors in the O Do Kwan and was able to use his influence as a General to say - "you are now a member of O Do Kwan". I think most would say that O Do Kwan was populated by military personnel. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 17:37:21 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Jared Schneider Wins Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jared Schneider Wins Double Gold at Peru Event December 8, 2006 USA Taekwondo member Jared Schneider of Gainesville, Fla., won two gold medals at last month's Peru Club De Regatas International Open. Coached by Peter Lopez, Schneider won the junior featherweight division by beating competitors from El Salvador, Peru and Chile. He also won gold in the senior finweight division. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Not feeling right...confused To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 17:46:43 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > This must be the members of the military that were "co-opted" by Choi. > Like I said I think it was a matter of Choi wanting quality instructors > in the O Do Kwan and was able to use his influence as a General to say - > "you are now a member of O Do Kwan". I think most would say that O Do > Kwan was populated by military personnel. Agreed. And as a sub kwan of the CDK, CDK dans did not have to retest for rank when going in the military and joining ODK. It just transfered over. However new ODK folks coming from the MDK et al had to retest. As Master West recalled (if I recollect his recollection correctly), if you were in the military and taught any type of martial arts, you were ODK. So the Hapkido and Yudo instructors in the Korean military were ODK. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 18:02:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pyung-Ahn Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kang Rhee's Pa Sa ryu Tae Kwon Do system teaches (I have 4th Dan in Pa Sa Ryu from Master Rhee) the following forms: Pyung Ahn (2-5), Chul-Ki 1-3), BalSae So, Choong Moo, Jin Soo, NoPae, ShipSoo, YunBi, AmHak, JahUn, KongSahnKun. Master Rhee, a Graduate from Yonsei University here in Seoul, established and served as the Captain of Yonsei University's Martial Arts team, where the forms he taught are still reveared. He also instructoed Korean Military Intelligence Groups Officers during his time here, before moving to the states. His Training came in the form of Kong Soo Do, Chang Mu Kwan, Kwon Bup, Kang Duk Won and Han Kuk Hap Ki Do. He officially established the PaSaRyu Mu Do Assn. in Memphis, TN in 1966. He received his seventh Dan Kuk Ki Won in 1975, and 8th, then 9th Kuk Ki won later (I don't know the exact dates on the 8th and 9th). Perhaps your "Tae Kwon Do" form you were introduced to was from a Kang Rhee school? Grace and Peace Daryl Covington Seoul, South Korea 6th Dan WFK --------------------------------- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 22:38:27 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Chung Do Kwan and O Do Kwan To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, >From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] >> This must be the members of the military that were >"co-opted" by Choi. >> Like I said I think it was a matter of Choi wanting quality >> instructors in the O Do Kwan and was able to use his influence as a >> General to say - "you are now a member of O Do Kwan". I think most >> would say that O Do Kwan was populated by military personnel. > >Agreed. And as a sub kwan of the CDK, CDK dans did not have to retest for rank when going in the military and joining ODK. It just >transfered over. However new ODK folks coming from the MDK et al had to retest. > >As Master West recalled (if I recollect his recollection correctly), if you were in the military and taught any type of >martial arts, you were ODK. So the Hapkido and Yudo instructors in the Korean military were ODK. This was a good way to build up the ITF - get military guys in O Do Kwan and gain their loyalty from perks, they you have a group of well trained and loyal black belts on which to build an organization. I have an idea from what I was told back in the 60's some "history" and have an idea why Chung Do Kwan black belts would not have to re-test. >From what little I know of the politics back then I really don't think the Chung Do Kwan upper ranks considered Choi to be someone that they wanted to be associated with the Chung Do Kwan. I think if there was any affiliation it would have been from instructors who were Chung Do Kwan and then from the military members of O Do Kwan. But would anyone care to offer their thoughts? Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Chung Do Kwan and O Do Kwan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 20:48:10 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have an idea from what I was told back in the 60's some "history" and > have an idea why Chung Do Kwan black belts would not have to re-test. > >From what little I know of the politics back then I really don't think > the Chung Do Kwan upper ranks considered Choi to be someone that they > wanted to be associated with the Chung Do Kwan. I think if there was > any affiliation it would have been from instructors who were Chung Do > Kwan and then from the military members of O Do Kwan. But would anyone > care to offer their thoughts? I think it helps to put things on a time line. Choi formed the Oh Do Kwan as a sub-kwan of the Chung Do Kwan in the early 1950s, primarily with the help of Nam Tae Hi. As you know Nam Tae Hi was a CDK student that studied under Lee Won Kuk, beginning in 1947. Choi was permitted to form the ODK as a sub-kwan under the CDK due to his close affiliation with Nam Tae Hi. It wasn't until 1957 that Choi got into big trouble with Son Duk Sung, then Kwanjang of the CDK. Son stripped Choi of his honorary 4th Dan in 1957. So for several years in the mid-1950s Choi had rank and his kwan had status due to its affilication with the CDK. But once he was kicked out by Son he had to refocus and use his military rank and influence to give himself rank and his kwan power, which worked well given the backing he had from President Rhee Syngman. But that only worked for a few years. The government then changed hands, his problems came back to haunt him and he was forced to leave the country. Yes? No? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest