Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:17:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #493 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: from another group: black belt no cert (steven riggs) 2. 2,000 year old art... time to scream? (The_Dojang) 3. RE. Chung Do Kwan and Oh Do Kwan (Robert Martin) 4. Re: Black belt no certs (sidtkd@aol.com) 5. Re: Chodan (hankido@mac.com) 6. Kukiwon Question (Joel McTague) 7. Feeling better (Johnnie Rouse) 8. RE: Just a quick hello to the list (Joseph Cheavens) 9. CDK ODK timeline (Charles Richards) 10. RE: from another group: black belt no cert (Joseph Cheavens) 11. Re: RE. Chung Do Kwan and Oh Do Kwan (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:37:15 -0800 (PST) From: steven riggs Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] from another group: black belt no cert To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A fellow TSD black belt comes to my school to work out and assist teaching a couple of times a month as he does not have a school any longer to work in. The school he was in located in Charlotte NC had a Korean instructor.This instructor insisted all testing fees be in cash only and these fees for dan ranks were also unusually high for our area. My friend added up one Sat the sum total of the gup tests and the dan ranks and the cash total was over $8,000. No one would make any accusations but that does bring to ones mind a number of questions. I personally even wondered if the IRS would have questions about the practice. Joseph Cheavens wrote: Hmm, sounds like a scam to me. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jye nigma Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] from another group: black belt no cert Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:41:05 -0800 (PST) Hello, I am new but was wondering if it is a common practice for instructors (Masters) to test their student for 1st/2nd Dan but never send in for their cert's & ID cards. Also is it common to ask for all testing payment in CASH ONLY? This is done by a WTF/Kukkiwon certified instructor from Korea. Mu son tested over 9 months ago and never rcvd the cert or ID - he works VERY HARD and loves TKD but was just told that his Black belt doesn't exist in the mind of another school or tournaments. Any thoughts? Thanks so much --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Sensei Steven Riggs Senior Instructor American Defensive Arts stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 20:01:16 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 2,000 year old art... time to scream? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net South Korea dominates Asian games taekwondo by Shigemi Sato Mon Dec 11 DOHA (AFP) - Song Myeong-Seob hammered home South Korea's Asian Games taekwondo supremacy by insisting defense is the best form of attack in the traditional fighting sport. The 22-year-old downed Jordan's Jamil Al-Khuffash in the 67kg featherweight final on Sunday with a counter roundhouse kick as well as a jumping back kick in the closing seconds of the final round for a 5-0 victory. It closed South Korea's title hunt at nine in the 16 divisions, reasserting their supremacy in their 2,000-year-old martial art which made its Asian Games debut at home in Seoul in 1986. South Korea won two more titles on the final day through Kim Hak-Hwan in the men's over-84kg heavyweight and Lee Sung Hye in the women's 59kg featherweight. China's Chen Zhong triumphed in the women's over-72kg. Asked if Korean fighters are not aggressive enough, Song said: "If we attack too much to score points, it's easy to lose control." "Therefore it's vital for us to maintain control and be defensive in order to win," added the the 177-centimeter Kyung-Hee University student and 2004 Olympic bronze medallist. Lee, the women's 59kg champion, agreed on the importance of defense. "I never loosened up during the first round, but never let my guard down," she said. Lee scored all her points in the second round to beat Vietnam's Nguyne Thi Haoi Thu 3-0 in the final. Taekwondo's fusion of frantic kicking and punching, punctuated by long periods of bouncing up and down, passivity and yelling, has amused audiences worldwide since its Olympic debut in 2000. Some see it as a monotonous sport. "To the competitors, taekwondo is not boring," insisted Lee. While Chen revelled in her 72kg crown, Uzbekistan's Evgeniya Karimova blamed judges for her 4-0 loss, adding to the long list of complaints since the start of the sport's global spread under expatriate Korean coaches. "I wasn't happy with the result. The judges all favoured the Chinese player," she said. South Korea has maintained its taekwondo dominance since winning seven out of eight men's titles on offer in 1986. Both Song and Lee were still hungry despite the latest gold haul after days of weight control. "Back home, I want to eat as much as I want and have fun with friends," said Song. Lee, his college mate, said: "As soon as I get back to my residence I want to eat Rah-myun (noodle soup). --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 23:05:21 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE. Chung Do Kwan and Oh Do Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Carter, I follow the teaching of Gen. Choi so you're right that I'm biased. But I've read many of the various histories of the development of Taekwon-Do. I can accept Gen. Choi's much easier than the ones that claim TKD is "2000 years old" and other such nonsense. Too many of have made that claim for too long. It's just not true. It was Choi that, when he was the head of the KTA the 2nd time, forced the name back to Taekwon-Do. I'm not sure it really mattered in the long run but I think it is better to have the Korean name for Korean martial arts as opposed to nothing more than the Korean pronunciation of the Chinese characters of Karate-do. The fact is that Choi was in a position to push his agenda forward, by virtue of his military position, that others were not in. Did it cause friction - no doubt. Was Choi Hong Hi the be all and end all of TKD? Nope. Was he a powerful force in the development and spread of TKD? Yes. I'm not blind to his faults of which there were many but I can also look past the propoganda that has been produced on both sides. Right now, the Koreas are working to merge the WTF and, at least one major faction of, the ITF. For the first time I believe it might actually happen. Both sides are going to have to give some but I suspect that the WTF will give more than the ITF. > Its about time you hear the other side of Choi Hong Hi .Im sick of these > zealots claiming Gen Coi was the be all, end all of Tae Kwon Do. > Kurtis Carter > Mr. Clark, I didn't mean to imply that it was the 6th dan that forced GM Son out of the CDK. It was just all happening at about the same time. The history is full confusion and contridiction. > I have never heard that Choi was head of Chung Do Kwan. As to why Son > was asked to leave I have heard some stories that I can't confirm but > they had nothing to do with Choi. > > Rick Clark > > -- __--__-- > > Mr. Terry, Your right -- honoary CDK kwanjang. I believe it was 1959 when the title and 4th dan were revoked. >> If what little of my memory remains true, wasn't Gen. Choi the head of >> the >> CDK at one time? > > As the head of a CDK sub-kwan he was an honorary CDK kwanjang. But he > was also stripped of that honorary title in 1957. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > I don't think that anyone being honest with themselves can deny that Choi Hong Hi was a royal pain in the butt for many of those around him. One only has to read "Taekwon-Do and I" to see it let alone meet the man or talk with those that were close to him. However, no one can deny that he had a vision for what he wanted a Korean martial art to look like. He worked tirelessly, traveling around the world many times to promote what he thought TKD should be. Robert Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 8993 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:21:58 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Black belt no certs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wrote about this problem last January in TKD Times. My insights tell me this. When a student enters a dojang he may see a kukkiwon flag which in and of itself proves nothing. He should see copies of the sabunims kukkiwon certs posted. The student should ask if the master gives kukkiwon certs. If one is asked to produce cash for certification, I would be wary. But one student told me that he waited for a black belt to leave a dojang and asked if he got kukkiwon certification. When assured that he did, he was secure in enrolling in that school. There are other ways to check to be sure. But fraud is rampant especially in New York. Be wary, be careful! It's best to go to an established school, but its most important to feel comfortable. Sid --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 03:39:54 -0800 From: hankido@mac.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Chodan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >can anyone e-mail me the korean text for "chodan" or "shodan" - black belt? >Rocky Abild Hi Rocky, Have a look at this link: http://endic.naver.com/endic.nhn?docid=2799950&rd=s -- kind regards, Klaas Barends www.hapkidoforum.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Joel McTague" To: Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:04:29 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukiwon Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anybody know the link to check kukiwon certificates or if its even still available? JOEL MC TAGUE, JD, MBA, ChFC, RFC, DBA (Fin) (Candidate), LLM (Tax) (Candidate) --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Johnnie Rouse" To: Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:14:21 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Feeling better Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Rick I see you left just ahead of me getting there. 71,- 73. If I am correct C. Norris was at Osan also, so it seems you AF guys had a good instructor there. Over at Humphrey's I was very fortunate to have an instructor that was tied in with the upper echelon of the TKD/MDK. Most of whom are no longer with us with the exception of Ko, Eui-Min who is now the Chairman of the WTF Technical committee. I'm sure you still have a lot of great war stories to tell about your time there. Take care Johnnie Rouse --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Just a quick hello to the list Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:32:45 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Welcom aboard, Ron. Here are a couple of links that you may find helpful and informative. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/index.jsp http://www.wtf.org/ http://www.usa-taekwondo.us/ http://martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.html http://www.eagletkd.com/images/STUDENT%20FORUM%20from%20Korea%20Journal.pdf http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=5 Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Cole" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Just a quick hello to the list Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:49:47 -0500 Hi everyone! I've been a subscriber since mid-November and all I can say is I wish I discovered this list a year ago! I've learned quite a bit in these past few weeks and gained some valuable insights. My family joined a local dojang in September of 2005 and at the rip ole age of 38, I was recently promoted to brown belt. I know there are a lot of dojangs around, but I really feel like my family has found a special place! I'm fortunate enough to be taught by a world class Grandmaster, and the staff and students are a very close-knit family. Anyway, that's my story so far, and I hope that I can someday contribute to this great forum. And if anyone can point me to any additional links about TKD and the WTF, I'd really appreciate it! Gohm Sa Hahm Nida, Ron Cole _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial! --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:37:27 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] CDK ODK timeline Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i read "I think it helps to put things on a time line. Choi formed the Oh Do Kwan as a sub-kwan of the Chung Do Kwan in the early 1950s, primarily with the help of Nam Tae Hi. As you know Nam Tae Hi was a CDK student that studied under Lee Won Kuk, beginning in 1947. Choi was permitted to form the ODK as a sub-kwan under the CDK due to his close affiliation with Nam Tae Hi." mc reply Ray thanks for the factual information. Always makes the DD worth reading, even when I'm in lurk mode. Happy Holidays to all mc --------------------------------- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] from another group: black belt no cert Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:39:08 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes, the most obvious reason for cash only is to avoid paying income tax. The other more nefarious possibility is that if he is selling bogus certificates that it would be nigh on impossible to prove how much you paid him for said certificate, unless you got a receipt. On a side note, I think in general that a lot of dojang have turned the whole gup system into a racket with charging for testing fees, the increase in the number of gup levels and the whole flashy color scheme for the belts. JMVHO Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: steven riggs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] from another group: black belt no cert Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:37:15 -0800 (PST) A fellow TSD black belt comes to my school to work out and assist teaching a couple of times a month as he does not have a school any longer to work in. The school he was in located in Charlotte NC had a Korean instructor.This instructor insisted all testing fees be in cash only and these fees for dan ranks were also unusually high for our area. My friend added up one Sat the sum total of the gup tests and the dan ranks and the cash total was over $8,000. No one would make any accusations but that does bring to ones mind a number of questions. I personally even wondered if the IRS would have questions about the practice. Joseph Cheavens wrote: Hmm, sounds like a scam to me. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jye nigma Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] from another group: black belt no cert Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:41:05 -0800 (PST) Hello, I am new but was wondering if it is a common practice for instructors (Masters) to test their student for 1st/2nd Dan but never send in for their cert's & ID cards. Also is it common to ask for all testing payment in CASH ONLY? This is done by a WTF/Kukkiwon certified instructor from Korea. Mu son tested over 9 months ago and never rcvd the cert or ID - he works VERY HARD and loves TKD but was just told that his Black belt doesn't exist in the mind of another school or tournaments. Any thoughts? Thanks so much --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Sensei Steven Riggs Senior Instructor American Defensive Arts stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE. Chung Do Kwan and Oh Do Kwan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 09:02:22 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Your right -- honoary CDK kwanjang. I believe it was 1959 when the title and > 4th dan were revoked. Yep, looks like you are right. June 15, 1959. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest