Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 02:58:33 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #17 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. chubby gm wannabe back in the news (RDNHJMS@aol.com) 2. RE: Shooting on the Move... (J. Thomas Howard) 3. Gm Chubby Wannabee down Florida way (rich hodder) 4. RE: RE: Shooting on the Move... (michael tomlinson) 5. RE: Gm Chubby Wannabee down Florida way (michael tomlinson) 6. guns (freddie bishop) 7. Re: Gun Question (Jon Payne) 8. Re: RE: Shooting on the Move... (WTSDA Bruce) 9. Re (2) [The_Dojang] Gun Question (Jon Payne) 10. Gun question (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:31:28 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] chubby gm wannabe back in the news Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mike, I've been gone longer than I thought. Please tell me this nut case has not reinvented himself into some kind of wrestling promoter/announcer/character? The martial arts world has spawned some strange characters over the years, but none more bizarre than this one. Or maybe it has and I have just not been paying attention. On another note; I hear that my old buddy Mike McCarty is in the DC area now. I'll be there for about a week in the near future. Does anybody have his contact info? Rick Nabors _rdnhjms@aol.com_ (mailto:rdnhjms@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J. Thomas Howard" To: Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:20:02 -0600 Organization: Nebraska Hapkido Association Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Shooting on the Move... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye wrote: > > I have a question. I know civilians can go to shooting > ranges where you > > practice shooting from a stationary position. But do they also have > > shooting ranges for civilians where you can move around > like the military > > for instance? A type of course? And Ray replied: > Most any multi-day tactical training course will have you running and > gunning. But I would not say it is like the military. > Civilians require > a very different type of training. e.g. see http://gunsite.net/ As an additional comment regarding what gun ranges allow what---it really depends on where you are. Most indoor ranges won't let you move or draw from a holster. Some outdoor ranges won't either. Many people who like to shoot but live in cities often don't ever have a chance to draw from a holster on the range, or shoot on the move. Luckily for me, I belong to a range where we can do both, and have pistol bays where we can set up multiple targets along a 179.99 degree arc to shoot at while we draw and move. (Why not 180 degrees, you ask? Because breaking the 180 degree line is a great way to accidently shoot someone, so you never do it.) And Ray is spot-on regarding training differences. Military tactical doctrine for guns is _very_ difference from effective cilivian tactical doctrine---if nothing else, because the goals are almost completely different. I also note that many, many military gun ranges don't practice a lot of shooting on the move, either. While there are certain sections of the military that go through intensive firearms training, most military people get a basic lesson in rifle, with a little pistol, and that's about it. And a general plug for people: if your martial arts class has gun defenses, but you don't know anything about firearms, your ability to defend won't be as effective as it could. I'm not saying you have to buy a gun and shoot it all the time. However, you should learn how guns work, learn the basics of proper gun handling, and shoot one at least once to see what they are like and how they work. I've seen gun defenses that are taught in dojangs that just would _not_ be effective in reality, and it is obvious that the teacher doesn't know anything about guns. That is why every year, I take my students out, and we go through a 3-hour class on firearms---how they work, how they are put together, what they do, and how they do it. We talk about handgun nomenclature, cartridge types, we take apart a revolver and a pistol or two, and show how the actions work. They learn the basics of stance, grip, breathing (that part is easy for a martial arts class), sighting, and trigger control. And throughout, the rules of safe gun handling. We practice with AirSoft guns for awhile, until they demonstrate they can follow the safety rules at all times, then they work with unloaded real guns, working on their sighting and trigger control. If, through all this, they can consistently follow the safety rules, we then head out to the range, and they get a chance to shoot. We start with .22s, but after that they can shoot larger calibers if they want (both pistols and revolvers). Any student that breaks any of the rules of gun safety goes home--and I haven't had to do that yet. After that, the next time we do gun defenses in class it goes much better in terms of effectiveness. Thomas H. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "rich hodder" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:37:24 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Gm Chubby Wannabee down Florida way Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net perhaps there is something funny in the water down Florida way, makes folks think they are legends in their own mind (Gm P. ,da Chubbster, etc)....could be all those hurricanes ??? or maybe just too much pink fluff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Shooting on the Move... Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:37:12 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you want to get into some good shooting as a civilian find some pistol ranges near you that have an IDPA branch and go check out some matches and then get into that....it is really cool, fun, realistic and just what you would be looking for....I know Ray knows about the IDPA stuff....Michael Tomlinson >From: "J. Thomas Howard" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Shooting on the Move... >Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:20:02 -0600 > > Jye wrote: > > > I have a question. I know civilians can go to shooting > > ranges where you > > > practice shooting from a stationary position. But do >they also have > > > shooting ranges for civilians where you can move around > > like the military > > > for instance? A type of course? > >And Ray replied: > > Most any multi-day tactical training course will have you >running and > > gunning. But I would not say it is like the military. > > Civilians require > > a very different type of training. e.g. see >http://gunsite.net/ > >As an additional comment regarding what gun ranges allow >what---it really depends on where you are. Most indoor >ranges won't let you move or draw from a holster. Some >outdoor ranges won't either. Many people who like to shoot >but live in cities often don't ever have a chance to draw >from a holster on the range, or shoot on the move. > >Luckily for me, I belong to a range where we can do both, >and have pistol bays where we can set up multiple targets >along a 179.99 degree arc to shoot at while we draw and >move. (Why not 180 degrees, you ask? Because breaking >the 180 degree line is a great way to accidently shoot >someone, so you never do it.) > >And Ray is spot-on regarding training differences. Military >tactical doctrine for guns is _very_ difference from >effective cilivian tactical doctrine---if nothing else, >because the goals are almost completely different. I also >note that many, many military gun ranges don't practice a >lot of shooting on the move, either. While there are >certain sections of the military that go through intensive >firearms training, most military people get a basic lesson >in rifle, with a little pistol, and that's about it. > >And a general plug for people: if your martial arts class >has gun defenses, but you don't know anything about >firearms, your ability to defend won't be as effective as it >could. I'm not saying you have to buy a gun and shoot it >all the time. However, you should learn how guns work, >learn the basics of proper gun handling, and shoot one at >least once to see what they are like and how they work. >I've seen gun defenses that are taught in dojangs that just >would _not_ be effective in reality, and it is obvious that >the teacher doesn't know anything about guns. > >That is why every year, I take my students out, and we go >through a 3-hour class on firearms---how they work, how they >are put together, what they do, and how they do it. We talk >about handgun nomenclature, cartridge types, we take apart a >revolver and a pistol or two, and show how the actions work. >They learn the basics of stance, grip, breathing (that part >is easy for a martial arts class), sighting, and trigger >control. And throughout, the rules of safe gun handling. > >We practice with AirSoft guns for awhile, until they >demonstrate they can follow the safety rules at all times, >then they work with unloaded real guns, working on their >sighting and trigger control. If, through all this, they >can consistently follow the safety rules, we then head out >to the range, and they get a chance to shoot. We start with >.22s, but after that they can shoot larger calibers if they >want (both pistols and revolvers). Any student that breaks >any of the rules of gun safety goes home--and I haven't had >to do that yet. > >After that, the next time we do gun defenses in class it >goes much better in terms of effectiveness. > > >Thomas H. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ >From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Gm Chubby Wannabee down Florida way Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:39:03 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net HEY I LIVE IN FLORIDA AND YOU GUYS KNOW THAT I AM SANE AS ANYONE COULD POSSIBLY BE!!!!! Michael Tomlinson >From: "rich hodder" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Gm Chubby Wannabee down Florida way >Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:37:24 +0000 > >perhaps there is something funny in the water down Florida way, makes >folks think they are legends in their own mind (Gm P. ,da Chubbster, >etc)....could be all those hurricanes ??? or maybe just too much pink >fluff > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Fixing up the home? Live Search can help >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:41:56 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] guns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Look for a gun club that participates in practical shooting competitions. The United States Practical Shooting Association (USPSA) is a good source of training experience. fred ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Jon Payne" To: "The_Dojang" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gun Question Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:52:34 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The IDPA is a good place to start. Many ranges do have areas reserved for action shooting sports. Bear in mind these are just sports. There are many schools that teach weapon craft to civilians such as Gunsite, The Chapman Academy, and Thunder Ranch. There are many more besides these. Jon David Payne --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Shooting on the Move... Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:27:48 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Try the NRA site for range information. I remember using the range in Columbia MO, Green Valley, hosted the Bianchi Cup a few times. They have a great move and shoot range with steel knock downs. http://www.nrahq.org/Default.asp ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael tomlinson" To: Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 12:37 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Shooting on the Move... > If you want to get into some good shooting as a civilian find some pistol > ranges near you that have an IDPA branch and go check out some matches and > then get into that....it is really cool, fun, realistic and just what you > would be looking for....I know Ray knows about the IDPA stuff....Michael > Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jon Payne" To: "The_Dojang" Subject: Re (2) [The_Dojang] Gun Question Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:03:49 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>If a gun goes off while you're holding it, is there any other risk besides >>the bullet? Does the barrel get too hot to hold? Are there little sparks >>that can get in your eyes or anything? Or have I been watching too many >>crime shows? Can someone who regularly fires a real gun let me know? Thanks, Jeremy>> The bullet is the most dangerous risk in a gun take away/grab, but those hot gases are no punk. On a revolver the flash from the cylinder gap can cut like a knife. Been there done that. It takes a few rounds to heat up a barrel to the point that it's too hot to touch. If I shoot 9 rounds in rapid fire you wouldn't want to grab my slide. The muzzle blast is dangerous too. Jon David Payne --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:16:53 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] Gun question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For firearms training schools see... http://www.martialartsresource.com/firearms.htm Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest