Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:00:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #21 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Atlanta (ISA Headquarters) 2. Guns (rich hodder) 3. Re: GUNS V/S KMA (michael tomlinson) 4. Re: GUNS V/S KMA (jay.oconnor@comcast.net) 5. GUN DEFENSE (Gordon) 6. Re: Re: Atlanta (Jye nigma) 7. GUN DEFENSE (Gordon) 8. NLETC (Ray) 9. Re: GUNS V/S KMA (michael tomlinson) 10. RE: GUN DEFENSE (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:19:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Atlanta Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net QUOTE: From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:14 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido I was so impressed with the clips I've seen of the KHF that hapkido has really peaked my interest. I wonder if there are any no nonsense hapkido dojangs around ATL, GA? Jye UNQUOTE! Even though he is not KHF or even Hapkido, Chief Master Marlin Sims is in Atlanta. Master Sims is the highest ranked non-oriental in KukSoolWon, and he is fantastic at what he teaches. Respectfully, George I. Petrotta ISA Director www.sungjado.org/ isahdq@sc.rr.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 14569 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "rich hodder" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:30:22 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Guns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net you know, this forum has this very same conversation about every 6 months....if you don't like guns, pistols, rifles, etc, no problem, don't buy them.....that just leaves more for me !!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live Messenger now.  --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GUNS V/S KMA Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:10:37 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have to say that after watching the gun disarming techniques that most of these guys would of been shot right from the get go....in learning gun disarming from Mst. Whalen...the most important step is to clear yourself from the muzzle on your initial move....IF you don't do this first and foremost the rest of the technique doesn't really mean that much....we practice over and over and over to clear the muzzle in a whole bunch of different positions....these guys are great athletes and are very fast....BUT....most firearms hover around a velocity falling somewhere between 1200 to 3000 feet per second.....so you better not be in front of the muzzle when the trigger gets pulled and the bullet comes out...Michael Tomlinson >From: Jye nigma >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GUNS V/S KMA >Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:03:01 -0800 (PST) > >Did you get a chance to see the demo of the KHF hapkido folks I posted last >week. I liked alot of their tactics, except for the handgun ones. What did >you think? In case you all missed it, here it is again: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4428632708773992271&q=khf&hl=en > > jye > >Gordon wrote: > Michael Tomlinson said: > >defense and your training doesn't actually involve some shooting and/or >knowledge of firearms then you are like an animal that has their head stuck >in the sand....if samurai were around during the times of very good >firearms >then I am sure they would all be carrying Glocks....or something like >that....maybe it's a Hapkido practicality thing but Self Defense IMHO >doesn't involve existing restricting historical protocal...if you are apt >to >be attacked by something then logic tells you to understand and train for >that....am I crazy in my thinking????j > >Michael Tomlinson> > >Rick Clark said: > >"traditional" Korean weapons . . . . . > >Rick Clark> > >In the same manor or thinking, shouldn't we all be training in every style >and every weapon that may come our way? Where do you draw the line between >tradition and modern practicality? > >Gordon Okerstrom >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > >--------------------------------- >Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live Messenger now. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview --__--__-- Message: 4 From: jay.oconnor@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GUNS V/S KMA Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:36:06 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My Hapkido instructor, an ex-cop himself, emphasizes this point in all our gun disarms, the first step is 'body evasion'...get your body out of the line of the muzzle as soon as possible. From there, all the techniques from various positions, are designed to keep the muzzle from ever coming back to be directed toward you Take care, Jay -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "michael tomlinson" > I have to say that after watching the gun disarming techniques that most of > these guys would of been shot right from the get go....in learning gun > disarming from Mst. Whalen...the most important step is to clear yourself > from the muzzle on your initial move....IF you don't do this first and > foremost the rest of the technique doesn't really mean that much....we > practice over and over and over to clear the muzzle in a whole bunch of > different positions....these guys are great athletes and are very > fast....BUT....most firearms hover around a velocity falling somewhere > between 1200 to 3000 feet per second.....so you better not be in front of > the muzzle when the trigger gets pulled and the bullet comes out...Michael > Tomlinson > > >From: Jye nigma > >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GUNS V/S KMA > >Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:03:01 -0800 (PST) > > > >Did you get a chance to see the demo of the KHF hapkido folks I posted last > >week. I liked alot of their tactics, except for the handgun ones. What did > >you think? In case you all missed it, here it is again: > > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4428632708773992271&q=khf&hl=en > > > > jye > > > >Gordon wrote: > > Michael Tomlinson said: > > > >defense and your training doesn't actually involve some shooting and/or > >knowledge of firearms then you are like an animal that has their head stuck > >in the sand....if samurai were around during the times of very good > >firearms > >then I am sure they would all be carrying Glocks....or something like > >that....maybe it's a Hapkido practicality thing but Self Defense IMHO > >doesn't involve existing restricting historical protocal...if you are apt > >to > >be attacked by something then logic tells you to understand and train for > >that....am I crazy in my thinking????j > > > >Michael Tomlinson> > > > >Rick Clark said: > > > >"traditional" Korean weapons . . . . . > > > >Rick Clark> > > > >In the same manor or thinking, shouldn't we all be training in every style > >and every weapon that may come our way? Where do you draw the line between > >tradition and modern practicality? > > > >Gordon Okerstrom > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > _________________________________________________________________ > Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live > Messenger now. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:40:13 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] GUN DEFENSE Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael Tomlinson wrote: We call that first action: BLADING. Turning the body like turning a blade, so that your body is not down range. Some times I liken it to a freight train coming at you; "Get off the tracks!" Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:58:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Atlanta To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I remember coming across his name and number years ago, but I could never contact him. I think bad number. have a new contact number? Jye ISA Headquarters wrote: QUOTE: From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:14 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido I was so impressed with the clips I've seen of the KHF that hapkido has really peaked my interest. I wonder if there are any no nonsense hapkido dojangs around ATL, GA? Jye UNQUOTE! Even though he is not KHF or even Hapkido, Chief Master Marlin Sims is in Atlanta. Master Sims is the highest ranked non-oriental in KukSoolWon, and he is fantastic at what he teaches. Respectfully, George I. Petrotta ISA Director www.sungjado.org/ isahdq@sc.rr.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 14569 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:58:48 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] GUN DEFENSE Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net By the way, in our state, Oklahoma, if we try a block or disarm of a firearm on an assailant, and the weapon discharges and strikes ANYTHING down range, like a building, car or another person, the defender (the person trying the block / disarm) is liable. This can range from property damage to manslaughter. So, what I'm getting at is: it's not just you in danger, your surroundings; even a few blocks away can come into play. You could be imprisoned for manslaughter of someone two blocks away while trying to protect yourself or your family from a wolf or black sheep. -Oklahoma celebrates its centennial this year. 100 years ago, half of the town folk would have helped you shoot the jerk and you'd be a hero. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 8 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:30:57 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] NLETC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net James Lindell of the National Law Enforcement Training Center has been teaching firearms retention to LEOs for ~30 years. You learn to disarm and then you learn to retain. FWIW... http://www.nletc.com/courses.php?course_id=3D4 Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GUNS V/S KMA Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:48:47 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Exactly.. muzzle sweep can be equated to "death".... I mean there is much more to disarming than this..but this is the most important aspect...so if it is missing then you are practicing wrong.. Michael Tomlinson >From: jay.oconnor@comcast.net >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GUNS V/S KMA >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:36:06 +0000 > >My Hapkido instructor, an ex-cop himself, emphasizes this point in all our >gun disarms, the first step is 'body evasion'...get your body out of the >line of the muzzle as soon as possible. From there, all the techniques >from various positions, are designed to keep the muzzle from ever coming >back to be directed toward you > > >Take care, >Jay > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: "michael tomlinson" > > I have to say that after watching the gun disarming techniques that most >of > > these guys would of been shot right from the get go....in learning gun > > disarming from Mst. Whalen...the most important step is to clear >yourself > > from the muzzle on your initial move....IF you don't do this first and > > foremost the rest of the technique doesn't really mean that much....we > > practice over and over and over to clear the muzzle in a whole bunch of > > different positions....these guys are great athletes and are very > > fast....BUT....most firearms hover around a velocity falling somewhere > > between 1200 to 3000 feet per second.....so you better not be in front >of > > the muzzle when the trigger gets pulled and the bullet comes >out...Michael > > Tomlinson > > > > >From: Jye nigma > > >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GUNS V/S KMA > > >Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:03:01 -0800 (PST) > > > > > >Did you get a chance to see the demo of the KHF hapkido folks I posted >last > > >week. I liked alot of their tactics, except for the handgun ones. What >did > > >you think? In case you all missed it, here it is again: > > > > > > >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4428632708773992271&q=khf&hl=en > > > > > > jye > > > > > >Gordon wrote: > > > Michael Tomlinson said: > > > > > >defense and your training doesn't actually involve some shooting and/or > > >knowledge of firearms then you are like an animal that has their head >stuck > > >in the sand....if samurai were around during the times of very good > > >firearms > > >then I am sure they would all be carrying Glocks....or something like > > >that....maybe it's a Hapkido practicality thing but Self Defense IMHO > > >doesn't involve existing restricting historical protocal...if you are >apt > > >to > > >be attacked by something then logic tells you to understand and train >for > > >that....am I crazy in my thinking????j > > > > > >Michael Tomlinson> > > > > > >Rick Clark said: > > > > > >"traditional" Korean weapons . . . . . > > > > > >Rick Clark> > > > > > >In the same manor or thinking, shouldn't we all be training in every >style > > >and every weapon that may come our way? Where do you draw the line >between > > >tradition and modern practicality? > > > > > >Gordon Okerstrom > > >_______________________________________________ > > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > >Standard disclaimers apply > > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > >Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > > >_______________________________________________ > > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > >Standard disclaimers apply > > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows >Live > > Messenger now. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] GUN DEFENSE Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:52:22 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow that is crazy!!! Someone holds a gun to your head...you try to keep from getting murdered by knocking the gun away from your head...the gun goes off and hurts someone down the street and somehow you are liable???? That is the most insane thing I've ever heard of!!! Thank God I'm in Florida...uh...most of the time... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Gordon" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] GUN DEFENSE >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:58:48 -0600 > >By the way, in our state, Oklahoma, if we try a block or disarm of a >firearm >on an assailant, and the weapon discharges and strikes ANYTHING down range, >like a building, car or another person, the defender (the person trying the >block / disarm) is liable. This can range from property damage to >manslaughter. So, what I'm getting at is: it's not just you in danger, >your >surroundings; even a few blocks away can come into play. You could be >imprisoned for manslaughter of someone two blocks away while trying to >protect yourself or your family from a wolf or black sheep. -Oklahoma >celebrates its centennial this year. 100 years ago, half of the town folk >would have helped you shoot the jerk and you'd be a hero. > >Gordon Okerstrom >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place!  MSN Shopping Sales & Deals http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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