Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 02:58:25 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #41 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: New TKD leadership (sidtkd@aol.com) 2. Re: Re: ITF & WTF merger (Dave Steffen) 3. Re: ITF & WTF merger (Dave Steffen) 4. World Traditional Martial Arts Union (Ron Cole) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 08:08:59 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: New TKD leadership Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My hunch is that leadership will reside where the profit is larger. Both sides want control much as in the days when the kwans fought for who would remain dominant. Some compromise will take place. Rumors are swirling on this issue galore. Some say that Soo Bahk Do will join the coalition and others say that some Shodakan will also join. In the long run some good will come out of this as ITF having splintered is a sign that unity was needed and not just under one great man but a body that will be stronger than the will of a single person. Needless to say, new problems will arise based on turf, what constitutes a master...4th or 7th dan, what will be new criteria for dans, what will forms be like, how pervasive will leadership be, will those that hold neither dan from ITF or WTF be allowed to test at dan level etc, etc. Personally, I want to see a return to palgwe forms and Basai dan forms. I would very much like to see more grappling, weapons, and a return to the art moving a bit from sport. But then I'm dreaming a bit. Sid --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Dave Steffen Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:03:00 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF & WTF merger Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry writes: > > Talks have already begun formally and a memorandum of agreement > > has been signed between these two bodies to discuss formal merger > > after 33 years. > > Just too bad it didn't happen before the ITF splintered into three > different ITF organizations. I recently had the honor of meeting Master Tran Trieu Quan at a seminar in Odessa, Texas; Master Tran is the President of the "Vienna" ITF. He had a very interesting comment on this: in his view, there are _not_ three different ITFs. There's only one ITF... but there are three people claiming to be President. :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Dave Steffen, Ph.D. Wave after wave will flow with the tide IV Dan, ITF And bury the world as it does Tide after tide will flow and recede tkd-physics@comcast.net Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Dave Steffen Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:24:45 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF & WTF merger Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net sidtkd@aol.com writes: > Talks have already begun formally and a memorandum of agreement has > been signed between these two bodies to discuss formal merger after > 33 years. One thing is clear, the union will strengthen taekwondos > hand in the Olympics as Karate will now be an Olympic sport of some > strength. I understand that each body will recognize the others > dan ranks. My question is what do you suppose the new forms will be > like? The ITF and WTF have such a fundamentally different approach to forms that I personally would consider any such "unification" impossible... if by "unification" you mean "making one martial art" out of ITF and WTF TaeKwon-Do. Merging ITF TaeKwon-Do and Aikido would be easier, and just as pointless. I suspect that's not what they're talking about, though. They're probably talking about merging TaeKwon-Do _competition_, which is an entirely different thing. Or, perhaps, they're talking about merging _organizations_, which is also an entirely different thing. Under either of these situations, the forms wouldn't change at all; the competition rules would change in some way so as to allow both Chang Hon and Tae Geuk to be used in competition. By the way, this has been in the works for a while. Mr. Chang Ung (President of the "North Korean" ITF) flew in to Colorado in 2004 (I believe) to talk to the people at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs about this. I know because, at GM Hwang's requrest, we met him at the airport. :-) And wasn't that big scandal about the President of the WTF funelling money to North Korea part of all this? (I admit I wasn't paying much attention when that went down.) Tom Kennelly then wrote: > I think the more important question will be whether the North > Koreans will be in charge or not. With dictatorships or communist > regimes they want it only their way. AFAIK this was an important issue with the ITF; IIRC Gen. Choi turned down a North Korean offer to help the ITF (probably with a lot of money) because they would want to be in charge. How this fits in with the whole "Juche" thing, and the General's desire for Chang Ung to be president after him, I don't know. BTW, Master Tran Trieu Quan (President of the "Vienna" ITF) made an interesting comment about Juche at a recent seminar in Odessa. He likes the pattern fine, but isn't crazy about the name. He smiled and said "This... very sensitive subject." :-\ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Dave Steffen, Ph.D. Wave after wave will flow with the tide IV Dan, ITF And bury the world as it does Tide after tide will flow and recede tkd-physics@comcast.net Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Ron Cole" To: Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:05:19 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] World Traditional Martial Arts Union Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can anyone shed some light or history about the World Traditional Martial Arts Union? I'm not getting much out of Google! Thanks, Ron C. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest