Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:55:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #47 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Ki (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 2. RE: Ki (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 3. RE: RE: Ki (Joseph Cheavens) 4. RE: psychosomatic effects (Stovall, Craig) 5. RE: RE: Ki (michael tomlinson) 6. Re: RE: Ki (Jye nigma) 7. 1st trip to Korea (Mike Donahoo) 8. Appointment of WTF Secretary General (The_Dojang) 9. RE: 1st trip to Korea (Joseph Cheavens) 10. First trip to Korea (keiron henderson) 11. Taekkyon: Gently and Lightly (The_Dojang) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 06:05:16 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael Tomlinson wrote: >Can anyone tell me what this is::: last week a bunch of tornados... Sounds like he felt like something was wrong. Glad to hear he got out of there! >also..Dakin...do you believe in God??? Which God are we talking about? The God of the Jews, Christians or Muslims? I'm going to assume Christian. If there is ONE God, then how are we to worship? Seems like there's a lot of different interpretations of his/her/its intentions. If there is a single God, then I doubt anyone down here knows what he/she/it wants. And if there are a lot of gods, like a lot of people on this planet believe, then it gets really tough. But, in the interest of being specific: Do I believe in an all-powerful being who made the universe? No. Do I think there is an all-powerful being who made the universe? Don't know - maybe. Do I think we are the highest form of life in the universe? No. Do I believe in spirits (holy or otherwise) entering the body? No. Am I a Christian? Don't know. I like the New Testament a lot better than the Old though. Do I believe in an afterlife? Don't know. So I guess I'm still agnostic. I'm sure this one will spark a number of replies. Please send flames to me and not to the list, ok? Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com PS: Michael, do you believe in God? [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 08:36:04 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Julie Meyer wrote: I wonder how your statement should be interpreted? Are you saying that you do not believe that you can will yourself healthy or unhealthy? The placebo effect is a proven psychological effect that people who believe that they are getting treatment even if receiving a placebo can, indeed, get well. The psychosomatic effect is also quite true. My reply: Yes, that was my point. Since both the placebo and psychosomatic effects are real, then a belief in ki should enhance or at least support those, right? I guess I'm arguing that the potential benefit of practicing ki would be balanced by a potential risk of believing in bad ki, and when that is combined with the loss of personal control that is the result of abandoning oneself to the spirit, I'm not willing to make that leap. Not that I'm a great expert on ki training or anything! Your mileage may vary, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Ki Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:21:12 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin, I really like your psychosomatic exlpanation for the effects of Ki better than the black or white "yes" or "BS" that conversations on Ki generally generate. Thanks for sharing. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Ki Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 08:36:04 -0500 Julie Meyer wrote: I wonder how your statement should be interpreted? Are you saying that you do not believe that you can will yourself healthy or unhealthy? The placebo effect is a proven psychological effect that people who believe that they are getting treatment even if receiving a placebo can, indeed, get well. The psychosomatic effect is also quite true. My reply: Yes, that was my point. Since both the placebo and psychosomatic effects are real, then a belief in ki should enhance or at least support those, right? I guess I'm arguing that the potential benefit of practicing ki would be balanced by a potential risk of believing in bad ki, and when that is combined with the loss of personal control that is the result of abandoning oneself to the spirit, I'm not willing to make that leap. Not that I'm a great expert on ki training or anything! Your mileage may vary, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo – buy and sell with people you know --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 08:31:45 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: psychosomatic effects Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<< Stress is generally considered a mental phenomena. Yet, many physical signs and symptoms can be attributed to stress.>>> Here's where we (all of us) make a huge mistake in our conceptualization about the "self" (and it leads to all sorts of problems, but I won't get into that). The main problem is that man has invented terms like "physical" and "mental" in order to model and conceptualize the human experience. He then goes about completely forgetting the fact that these are terms invented by humans...they have no existence outside of the human brain's ability to invent them and think about them. Then we stomp down the merry road of dualistic thinking and run into all the problems that go along with that. It's all the same "thing" (actually you're not a "thing"...you're a self-replicating process...a verb instead of a noun). The brain itself (what most of us term "mental") stretches to every fiber of the body through the nervous system. Therefore, it is just as "physical" as your toes or your liver. The fact that people get amazed over the suggestion that one can "think oneself well or sick" is due to hundreds of years of Western philosophy and medicine that has drawn a line between "mental" and "physical" where none exists. How many elderly people drop dead shortly after retirement, or shortly after the death of a spouse? Mind-body connection? Surely not!!! As far as ki, goes. I really don't know. I used to be the main one on here "poo-pooing" the idea of ki/chi/prana/whatever as the subject was broached from time-to-time. My studies and experience have since led me to believe...well, I just don't know. There is more to life than what language can describe, or what the human brain can model and conceptualize. "Ki" may be a way of pointing to and describing "something" that we can only catch a glimpse of with our monkey brains. Who knows. Life is an adventure. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Ki Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 15:20:47 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin, Yeah he was really lucky...the funny thing is that Richard is the most skeptical, pessimistic, and sarcastic dude you will ever meet, when he told me about the voice I knew he couldn't even fathom making something like that up...pretty wild huh... on the question of God...oh yeah I believe...IMO all you have to do is look around and open your eyes and senses and you will see that underlying pattern that exists....it also comes from my being in some harms way and having things happen that opened my eyes to it...as the Buddha said...the is an underlying animating force to everything....do I follow any book or "categorize" myself as being this or that....not very much...IMHO when you start doing that you stray away from what "it" really is.....and that is where things get skewed on the other hand I respect what you wrote..over the years of reading your posts I can tell you are very logic centered in your personality which explains the questions and the posts of maybe or maybe not...makes perfect sense...and if you didn't answer that way then something would be out of sync...in my studies I have found that people are either logic centered or feeling centered...I could go into crazy detail about this but don't want to type that much...suffice to say this stuff is taught a lot in some of the ninja ryu school.....logic centered people focus on data and facts that they can test and validate...nothing wrong with this,, the only problem arises when they are trying to understand something that is "feeling" centered... because it doesn't fit into their perspective of understanding,,,, on the other hand feeling centered people appreciate data and validity but focus on opening up their senses and use that to process knowledge that is a little off the grid....most people use a combination of both but inherently you are either predominately one or the other......sometimes you just have to look at your profession and it will tell you which one you are, people usually pick fields that match their predomination....both are good and legitimate..and at the same time both have their extremes....like in feeling based knowledge the people who focus so much on ki that they turn into oversensitive naive fools...or the logic centered people who become so rigid that they can be manipulated by skewed data..for example....the majority of all educated extreme religious terrorists come from the logic centered realm....the biggest percentage of them are engineers....crazy huh, but true and this info actually helps in finding them but it is also helping in their recruiting....bottome line is everyone believes what they believe and as long as they don't use it to hurt anyone or anything it's all good in my book.......Hapki!! Michael Tomlinson >From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Ki >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 06:05:16 -0500 > >Michael Tomlinson wrote: > > >Can anyone tell me what this is::: last week a bunch of tornados... > >Sounds like he felt like something was wrong. Glad to hear he got out of >there! > > >also..Dakin...do you believe in God??? > >Which God are we talking about? The God of the Jews, Christians or >Muslims? >I'm going to assume Christian. If there is ONE God, then how are we to >worship? Seems like there's a lot of different interpretations of >his/her/its >intentions. If there is a single God, then I doubt anyone down here knows >what he/she/it wants. And if there are a lot of gods, like a lot of people >on >this planet believe, then it gets really tough. But, in the interest of >being >specific: > >Do I believe in an all-powerful being who made the universe? No. >Do I think there is an all-powerful being who made the universe? Don't >know - >maybe. >Do I think we are the highest form of life in the universe? No. >Do I believe in spirits (holy or otherwise) entering the body? No. >Am I a Christian? Don't know. I like the New Testament a lot better than >the >Old though. >Do I believe in an afterlife? Don't know. > >So I guess I'm still agnostic. I'm sure this one will spark a number of >replies. Please send flames to me and not to the list, ok? > >Yours in the arts, > >Dakin >dakinburdick@yahoo.com > >PS: Michael, do you believe in God? > >[demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a >name of winmail.dat] >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards® http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:08:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Ki To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just wanted to chime in here. I don't believe that there is good ki or bad ki. Just like anything else, man perverts naturally occuring things. So let's say you're able to heal with ki, then there is always some sicko that comes and says, hmmmm, I bet if I do this I can get this (negative) result. It's like a doctor can fix a problem with the body right? but they can also cause a problem or do bad things with their knowledge. So to me, it's mostly about human intent. until we get into the higher level stuff. Jye "Burdick, Dakin Robert" wrote: My reply: Yes, that was my point. Since both the placebo and psychosomatic effects are real, then a belief in ki should enhance or at least support those, right? I guess I'm arguing that the potential benefit of practicing ki would be balanced by a potential risk of believing in bad ki, and when that is combined with the loss of personal control that is the result of abandoning oneself to the spirit, I'm not willing to make that leap. Not that I'm a great expert on ki training or anything! Your mileage may vary, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:16:02 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 1st trip to Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am looking for some 'insider' info on Korea and what to expect. I am going to Korea to train for two weeks for the first time. What can I expect as far as weather, cost of living, level of training? The trip is May 29th-June 12th. I will be training at Yong-In, as well as Chouson (spelled wrong?), and one other university that i don't remember. The training will consist of Judo, Taekwondo, Kumdo, and Hapkido. I currently study Taekwondo and Judo and have a fair understanding of Kendo (6-7 months training) but I have never done Hapkido. Do I need to stock up on Ibuprofen? The group I am going with is from UC Berkley. Can anyone give me an idea of what to expect? In devotion to the Art, Mike Donahoo ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:38:47 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Appointment of WTF Secretary General Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Appointment of WTF Secretary General February 7, 2007 To: WTF Council Members and Auditors, Presidents and Secretaries General of Member National Associations Re: Appointment of WTF Secretary General Dear Colleagues: I understand that the past month has been trying for the taekwondo community. For that, I greatly appreciate your patience and devotion. Today, I am pleased to announce my appointment of the new secretary general of the World Taekwondo Federation. Having put much thought into my decision, I hereby appoint Mr. Jin Suk Yang as the new WTF Secretary General. Born in 1942, Mr. Yang, an American citizen, comes in with outstanding credentials; he was a two-time mayor of the Corte Madera City within Marin County, California, and has held high-ranking positions in the police and law enforcement. Mr. Yang holds a Kukkiwon 7th Dan and opened taekwondo gyms in Denver, Colorado and San Pablo, California, after having graduated from Kyung Hee University, College of Physical Education, in 1964. I firmly believe that his numerous years of experience in the fields of management, coupled with his vast knowledge of taekwondo, will serve the WTF Secretariat well. The new secretary general will commence his term next week and we will consult his opinions on the reshuffling of personnel within the WTF Secretariat. Colleagues, it is imperative that we fulfill the reformation of taekwondo and the WTF swiftly. To that end, and to realize our aspirations as a global sports federation, I thank you for your full cooperation with Secretary General Yang and the WTF Secretariat in the coming years. Sincerely yours, Chungwon Choue President --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 1st trip to Korea Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:28:39 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I recommend getting a copy of the Lonely Planet Guide to Korea. Lots of good info. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Donahoo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 1st trip to Korea Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:16:02 -0800 (PST) I am looking for some 'insider' info on Korea and what to expect. I am going to Korea to train for two weeks for the first time. What can I expect as far as weather, cost of living, level of training? The trip is May 29th-June 12th. I will be training at Yong-In, as well as Chouson (spelled wrong?), and one other university that i don't remember. The training will consist of Judo, Taekwondo, Kumdo, and Hapkido. I currently study Taekwondo and Judo and have a fair understanding of Kendo (6-7 months training) but I have never done Hapkido. Do I need to stock up on Ibuprofen? The group I am going with is from UC Berkley. Can anyone give me an idea of what to expect? In devotion to the Art, Mike Donahoo ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards® --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 12:14:40 +0900 From: "keiron henderson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] First trip to Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Mike congrats on your trip to Korea. I've only been in Seoul since September so can't comment on conditions personally in Spring/Summer but colleagues say weather is pretty summery with not too much rain in May/June. August is very hot and humid so you've picked a pretty good time to put on a Dobok in Korea. Sure you've already booked your accommodation so you know that cost. If you happy to eat Korean food you can get bimimpap (rice and vegetables and a small amount of meat) anywhere for about 5 dollars. Same price for Kimchi chigae which is a hot soup with rice and pickled cabbage and again a small amount of meat or tuna for the same price. Bulgogi -- fried up beef with rice -- costs about 8 dollars. Definitely go out with your training partners and have Korean barbecue, although mind the soju (20 percent alcohol vodka type firewater) ouch. Most restaurants have pictures on the wall so pointing usually works out. Burger, chicken and pizza places are everywhere and about half the price in London (I'm British can't say about U.S.). Half litre bottle water from convenience store 30 cents. 1.5 litres from supermarket 70 cents, Most dojangs will have a water cooler, just bring your own bottle. Local beer at convenience store 75 cents (for after training, it's frowned on in the gym). I've never been to Yongin but it doesn't look too far from Seoul. I'd be interested to hear what it's like. Public transport and taxis in Seoul are cheap. You can cross downtown Seoul for as little as five dollars. I've been training in ITF Taekwondo since I got here. From what I can work out Koreans are a lot more flexible than Europeans/Westerners and I can see why. Expect a lot of stretching and leg strength work. The intensity is high. They don't mess about. I've watched a little Aikido and Hapkido being taught and have been impressed by the high standards. Over the counter drugs are pretty expensive by UK standards. Tylenol is called just that here. Two dollars for 8 pills. Considering you can get a bucketful of Ibuprofen from Walgren for 6 dollars you'd be better off bringing it with you. You probably will need it for all the Hapkido and Judo. Where-ever I've been (5 or 6 dojangs) the floors have been matted and mirrors were present. On a personal note I have made many good friends from my training here. In my experience Koreans in the Dojang are courteous, generous, enthusiastic and understanding training partners. They are serious about their martial arts but there are lots of laughs too. I hope you get the maximum from your stay in the home of Taekwondo. Keiron Henderson (2nd Dan ITF) --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:01:53 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekkyon: Gently and Lightly Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taekkyon: Gently and Lightly FEBRUARY 09, 2007 The Dong-A Ilbo Taekkyon moves are soft and curved. Taekkyon players bend their knees and bodies like the branches of a willow. Simply watching someone performing the traditional Korean martial art gives you a pleasurable feeling, as they move their body left and right, and their shoulders up and down. It appears to be a dance to Korea's traditional farm music, but in an instant it changes into a cheerful mask dance. One cannot find furious and deadly moves in Taekkyon, as in every move lies a hidden "cushioning" action. Taekkyon kicks are not aimed straight at the opponent. They curve like a crescent, in contrast to Taekwondo kicks that are straight and abrupt. "Neun attacks" are characteristic of Taekkyon. Neun (meaning soft and slow in Korean) attacks knock the opponent to the ground without hurting them, for which advanced power control skills are essential. Taekkyon does not allow the attacking of vulnerable parts of the body. Rather, the forehead, sides, thighs and shoulders are the targets, as the principle is to attack the opponent's hard and safe body parts using one's own soft body parts. For example, Anugeori trips the opponent by hitting their ankle bone with the soft sole of the foot, and Gyeotchigi impacts the opponent's cheeks, shoulders or thighs with the sole of the foot. "Straight kicks" with no bending and cushioning are a foul in Taekkyon. All Taekkyon moves are based on Neun attacks. Novice kicks impact the opponent's legs and intermediate kicks impact the opponent's shoulders. However, master kicks can tip the opponent's hat to the ground. A Taekkyon player wins when part of the opponent's body (above the knee) comes in contact with the ground. A player is also victorious when he pushes the opponent more than two steps with a two-foot kick, or knocks the opponent off balance with a kick aimed at the opponent's neck or head. Taekkyon's charm is revealed in matches, where players fight but do not hurt each other. Punches and kicks carry an unusually caring touch. When a match is over, players exchange friendly and encouraging remarks. After all, the purpose of the match is to find out who is the better player. Matches are usually a part of village festivities. This is why Taekkyon, along with Ssireum – traditional Korean wrestling – were so popular during the spring festival. Among Taekkyon practitioners, families and women make up a significantly high percentage. Many grandmothers over sixty years of age enjoy the sport in local sports clubs, which in itself is tribute to the softness and fluidity of Taekkyon movements. Lim Mi-young, a 34 year old 4th Dan (the highest level) who runs a Taekkyon school in Bucheon, said, "Anyone, even seniors, can see their movements softening with continuous practice. As the bending action in the sport stimulates growth plates, it can make children grow tall." (Bucheon Jeonsugwan Taekkyon School phone number: 032-3232-666) Park Eun-hye, a fifteen year-old student and last year's second-place winner at the women's Taekkyon Championships (2nd Dan, 1st Poom, Incheon Chungchun Women's Junior High) said that she can sweat away any stress with just a little bit of Taekkyon. The 166 centimeter Park, once a small girl, attributes her growth to the traditional Korean sport. A Yoga-teaching married couple, Jeong Geon (34) and Choi Ha-ran (30), both 3rd Poom, practice Taekkyon with each other regularly. Choi described Taekkyon as dynamic, as opposed to Yoga being static. She said she can develop agility and nimbleness through the sport, which does not overstrain joints and whose fluid kicks can only be described as splendid. Often witnessed are fathers and their son practicing Taekkyon together. One such example is Kwon Soon-hong, a 43 year-old teacher (3rd Poom), and his son Yong-hwan (5th Poom). Senior Kwon believes that the best parts of the sport for him are its de-stressing effects and the joy of working up a sweat and talking with his son while practicing. Junior Kwon smiled saying he sometimes corrects his father's posture. It has been only a month since Kang Jeon-hee, a 40-year-old teacher, practiced with his two sons, Chang-moo (7) and Seung-moo (5). Kang said, "Taekkyon is a soft sport for all and is great exercise. In addition, children can learn about national traditions." Ryu In-gab (8th Poom), a 54-year-old self-employed businessman, who underwent surgery for intestinal cancer six months ago, was charmed by the unique appeal two months ago. Beaming brightly, he said he no longer has indigestion problems and fatigue, and has greatly improved his flexibility. Taekkyon is fun. It is both a martial art and a dance at the same time. Kicks are not intended to cause harm and it requires no protective gear. Instead, it requires self-restraint and consideration of others, which is the reason why players should be flexible and not rigid, both physically and mentally. Players should soften themselves by continuously moving their bodies. If the basis of all martial arts is said to lie in kicks, then Taekkyon kicks are some of the most special. A practitioner moves in the form of a triangle and an inverted triangle, changing his center of gravity among the three points. Here, the arm-flapping movement is to maintain balance. The bellowing sound is another unique element. "Eeeek. Eeeek" – it is the sound of life, and is made by a person unknowingly and unconsciously. An "Eeeek" rings the lower abdomen, which transforms itself into a round movement. Taekkyon lies somewhere between "spirit" and "sport." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest