Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 02:59:37 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #59 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Clinical death (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 2. RE: Craigs Reply (Stovall, Craig) 3. Re: Re: $1M offers (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 4. Re: Re: $1M offers (Ray) 5. Clinically dead (michael tomlinson) 6. RE: definition of "Clinical death" (Denise) 7. MMA in Monrow (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 8. Cage or no cage (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 9. RE: Re: $1M offers (Anthony) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:28:52 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Clinical death Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: >Is he alive now? Then he was never dead. I think I have to disagree with that Ray. People get brought back from clinical death all the time. Brain activity disappears after 20-40 seconds of the heart stopping, but you can still be brought back without significant brain damage if they get to you within 5 minutes, or longer if you have been chilling after drowning underwater (I was raised in Manitoba and remember a kid like that in the 1970s, I think he had been dead for about 20 minutes but had little brain damage because he had been in very cold water -- Robert Safar developed an induced hypothermia method from stuff like that in 1990). Detached limbs can be reattached after six hours, and bone tendon and skin can be revived as long as 8-12 hours. Sometimes when they are repairing a heart they lower the body temperature to 64 degrees F, and then the brain can avoid injury for up to an hour. You could argue that the cells are not dead yet (that's why you can be revived), but I think that the person as a creature was certainly dead. What is your definition of death? Does it occur at clinical death, brain death, or when every cell has died? And does that last one ever happen? I know we have a lot of bacteria in our body that help with digestion and probably do just fine after we die. Yours quizzically, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:35:19 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Craigs Reply Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Yes, I think they have a TM on referring to the cage as 'The Octagon'. You can use an 8-sided cage system, but you just have to be careful about not stepping on the UFC brand name. SEG used to prohibit people from using an 8-sided cage, but that ended when Zuffa bought the UFC. I still think they require written permission and payment of a royalty fee. --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: $1M offers To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:40:35 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Clay, Emotions and meta-physics aside, maybe it is our definition of "clinically dead" that is in error. Some believe it is when the heart stops. Some believe it is when higher brain functions drop below a specific (???) level. Whatever "they" diecided was the basis for "clinical death" is obviously not as final as "they" would have us believe. Victor frankclay@msn.com 02/16/2007 05:50 To PM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net cc Please respond to Subject the_dojang@martia [The_Dojang] Re: $1M offers lartsresource.net Ray, This kid was clinically dead. How can that be not really dead? Face it; there are things we barely understand. Look at Quantum physics. I'm just disagreeing with what was stated and am thinking it was the result of a miscommunication. My reason is based in science and engineering. Its not emotional and its most definitely not meta-physical. ~f. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: $1M offers To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 07:47:11 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Whatever "they" diecided was the basis for "clinical death" is obviously > not as final as "they" would have us believe. Bingo! And we thank you... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:12:22 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Clinically dead Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My wife says the definition of clinically dead is when she asks me to help her with house work while football season is in......nope...I am definately clinically dead on that one.... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Denise" To: Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:16:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: definition of "Clinical death" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This definition - from the "free dictionary" component of "encyclopedia.com" jibes with everything I've read and have been taught as a long-time clinician (RN). Hope it helps clarify the "clinical" death definition concerns~ Denise "Clinical death occurs when the heartbeat and breathing have stopped. Since regular breathing is impossible when the heart is stopped, clinical death is synonymous with cardiac arrest or cardiac death. The reversal of clinical death is sometimes possible through cardiopulmonary resuscitation, defibrillation, epinephrine injection, and other treatments. Resuscitation after more than 4 to 6 minutes of clinical death at normal body temperature is difficult. Usually brain damage or later brain death results after 10 to 15 minutes even if cardiac resuscitation is successful. Longer intervals of clinical death can be survived under conditions of hypothermia. Hypothermia also improves outcomes after resuscitation from clinical death even if body temperature is not lowered until after resuscitation." http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Clinical+death encyclopedia.com is connected with the Columbia Encyclopedia . . . as noted on their opening page~ "Welcome to HighBeamT Encyclopedia - the Internet's premiere free encyclopedia. Search or browse over 57,000 articles from the Columbia Encyclopedia." --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:14:06 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] MMA in Monrow Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charlie I believe you are right that Impact is in Bossier City, not Shreveport, and I used to have a school in Gadewater, however it is now in White Oak. I live in Longview. White Oak is about 3 miles west of Longview. I hope you can make it on March. I would like to meet you. I doubt I will have my guys yell "Tang Soo" Since I teach for the Soo BahK Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation and my students yell "Soo Bahk" I have to say however that all though I teach a traditional Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan class. The students that fight in the cage may come to the Soo Bahk Do Classes, they also train in my Jujitsu Classes. One of my guys has four years of Greco Roman Wrestling, and the other has a full time boxing coach out side of our school. We have a strength and condidtioning coach at our school that helps us to make weight each fight and still be strong the day of the fight. I guess I say all this because although I love my dedicated Soo Bahk Do students, and I may be a bit partial to the art, my students realize that to get in the cage you must do more than just train in a traditional class two or three times a week. I will let you know when tickets are available JC _________________________________________________________________ Want a degree but can't afford to quit? Top school degrees online - in as fast as 1 year http://forms.nextag.com/goto.jsp?url=/serv/main/buyer/education.jsp?doSearch=n&tm=y&search=education_text_links_88_h288c&s=4079&p=5116 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:23:22 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Cage or no cage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Cole is the promoter for the events I attend with the ISCF I have known Mr. Cole more than Twenty years, I know his instructor, and I have been to two of his promoted events. I can say as a trainer with a (3-0) record also that he does put on a well run event, last event was at Harrahs Cassino, Bossier City Police security asl well as Cassino Security. Ring Doctor and Parmedictics on staff. Current PKA middle weight Champion was a guest at the event. Fighters have everything they need, Good ref, and all judes are fighters them selves with several fights under their belt and know fights from their school or club on the card. The judge has years of experiance and the Lousiana boxing commission rep is ring side. He has always done what he said he would do and fights have been well matched. Thanks for the advice, I believe we are on the same page. I do feel good about what I have seen Thanks hope to see you there JC _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.  http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Anthony" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: $1M offers Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:43:18 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My name is master boyle I have a student that passed away posthumous dan belt any thoughts on how to do the ceromony -----Original Message----- From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com [mailto:Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:41 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: $1M offers Mr Clay, Emotions and meta-physics aside, maybe it is our definition of "clinically dead" that is in error. Some believe it is when the heart stops. Some believe it is when higher brain functions drop below a specific (???) level. Whatever "they" diecided was the basis for "clinical death" is obviously not as final as "they" would have us believe. Victor frankclay@msn.com 02/16/2007 05:50 To PM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net cc Please respond to Subject the_dojang@martia [The_Dojang] Re: $1M offers lartsresource.net Ray, This kid was clinically dead. How can that be not really dead? Face it; there are things we barely understand. Look at Quantum physics. I'm just disagreeing with what was stated and am thinking it was the result of a miscommunication. My reason is based in science and engineering. Its not emotional and its most definitely not meta-physical. ~f. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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